LET'S DRILL ANWAR

“http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/16/arctic.drilling.ap/index.html


I won't be able to see this thread since I have all fuego threads blocked, but how sad for so little gain (possibly 1 year supply) to rip up the pristine environment such as this.”

“It will not lower gazoline prices like it's backers are suggesting.

"How high do gas prices have to get before we do something about it?", is what one Senator said.
last edited: 3/17/05 7:40:57 AM”

“this was talked about yesterday and last night. Scroll down the page or click http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/37100,3.php

BTW, this thread started out as a trip thread then turned fuego
last edited: 3/17/05 7:42:29 AM”

“Ya know, if everyone wrote as many e mails to their leaders as they do posts bltching about stuff there could be some real change in America. Naw! Too hard. It’s hopeless. I wanna bltch and moan anyhow.”

“Nigal, I do send emails to Tn's Senators and Representatives. You have to let them know how you feel about topics. I always get back the nice form letter from them :)”

“The form letters are the best!!!

I recently ratted out a local hospital that is dumping some kind of soapy substance in a local creek periodically.”

“Ewker, you are the only single person on TT that I have known that has actually taken action on a issue they feel strongly about. Seems like the ones who bltch the most do the least.”

“Drilling ANWR will be good for the U.S. The wildlife there willnot be hurt.”

““Ewker, you are the only single person on TT that I have known that has actually taken action on a issue they feel strongly about. Seems like the ones who bltch the most do the least.”
Nigal
8:13:50 AM
3/17/05

Uh......make that two!!”

“Nigal, what you don't know about people on this board could fill volumes.”

“True Prosecutor. We had the same hysteria over Prudo Bay and look at it now. The caribou heard they said would die? Went from some 2,700 head to like 20,000.”

“Mark and Phaed, then why don't you encourage others? Why not say, "Hey, I agree with you and this is what I did. You should too."?”

“On this board?! Are you kidding me?”

“On NPR this morning, they reported that it will take up to 10 years before on drop of oil is pumped, and there is a chance none will be pumped. They do not know for certain how much oil is down there, or whether it is commercially profitable to pump it. This story is not over yet.”

““On this board?! Are you kidding me?”

Why not?”

“I point you to the endless heated and mostly inane political "debate" on this board as answer.

I deal with people fine in person and act locally.”

“How am I not encouraging others?

Is not my blabbering encouragment to all?”

““I point you to the endless heated and mostly inane political "debate" on this board as answer.”

Well, I think the fact the board is dominated by the progressives (see, I didn’t even use the “L” word). Even if I don’t agree with you on the issue if you are encouraging action I have all the respect in the world for it. Anyone who would shout that down is a fool. And sense when has Phaed been afraid of a debate? LOL!”

“"Is not my blabbering encouragment to all?”

Oh no, it's quite enough Mark. :)”

“Sorry, I should explain better. This board, to me, has always been in the realm of entertainment, rather than activism. I've never counted on convincing anyone here of much of anything, and would prefer to keep it that way.”

“Calling TT a realm of entertainment is like calling heroin a recreational drug. Haha!

That’s cool and I respect it.”

“Personally, I think ANWAR will get drilled eventually. What's needed is a bill that will let any exploration take place in a highly controlled fashion, a small section can be explored - and then it will be cleaned up by the folks who did the drilling. Only when that is done successfully does the next bit get opened up. If unanticipated damage is done, no further land is opened until substantial recovery takes place. Drillers and oil producers are heavily liable for damage they cause.

I also think we need a much stronger program for encouraged fuel economy, it would do far more to reduce our dependence on imports far more than giving domestic drillers a free end ever could.”

“Like Phaed, I do what I do on another plane. I suspect there are many others who do likewise. Don't suspect for one minute that TTers are not involved.”

“Ped, I believe there is only a very small portion that will be opened and the drilling would take place in winter when the impact is least. There has even been talk that drilling would stop during the caribou migrations.”

“If the brain dead half of the country that voted for Bush had voted for Nader instead (or wrote in a vote for Buchanan) we wouldn't have to write letters to "our leaders".
>
Relax people, with all this new ANWR oil flowing, you'll get to enjoy your SUVs for another year.”

“If it starts, I'll have to hope for the best and will watch to see the details as they unfold.

I've held this view on ANWAR for a long time. I hope they do it appropriately and that opening one tiny area isn't a wedge that leads to a wholesale uncontrolled opening. I'd like to see a very clear, enforceable, long term plan.”

““If the brain dead half of the country that voted for Bush had voted for Nader instead (or wrote in a vote for Buchanan) we wouldn't have to write letters to "our leaders".”

Buchanan? Sorry but I can’t write in an anti-Semite. Thanks also for calling me braindead. Nice to see you’re still an ass hole.”

“One other thing Ped, we don’t even know exactly if any of the oil companies even want to go to ANWAR. It’s not like their all lined up at the border of ANWAR with their machinery in tow waiting for word to go in like the old homestead races for land.”

“"It’s not like their all lined up at the border of ANWAR with their machinery in tow waiting for word to go in like the old homestead races for land."

Oh......I had this picture in my head.....”

“ANWAR would provide only a fraction of the daily oil consumption in the U.S., and like I said, it's unlikely anything would be produced for at least 10 years.

As Nigal pointed out, they may not even drill at all. By 2015 we could have an alternative fuel program up and running, or consumption could be drastically reduced with the use of hybrids.”

“Come on boys!

”

“LMAO, we may have to go back to that form of transportation after the oil is depleted.”

“Drilling ANWR will be good for the U.S. prosecutor
8:14:10 AM
3/17/05

prosecutor, drilling ANWR is not good for the US. The main reason is that the oil will not come here. It will be sold overseas.

Now saying that the H of R in their budget bill has put in a provision that the oil from Alaska has to come to the US and not sold overseas.

This is from another thread about drilling in ANWR.

"Currently, in the U.S. House there is pending House Resolution 39 (Arctic Coastal Plain Domestic Energy Security Act of 2005), by which leases would actually be granted, and which contains several provisions that I believe are relevant to the discussion.

Sec. 6 a(2) provides "that the Secretary may close, on a seasonal basis, portions of the Coastal Plain to exploratory drilling activities as necessary to protect caribou calving areas and other species of fish and wildlife"

From my reading of the legislative history of the bill, this section is being construed as primarily limiting any drilling activity to the winter months, when calving does not occur.

Sec. 6 a(3) requires "that the lessee of lands within the Coastal Plain shall be fully responsible and liable for the reclamation of lands within the Coastal Plain and any other Federal lands that are adversely affected in connection with exploration, development, production, or transportation activities conducted under the lease and within the Coastal Plain by the lessee or by any of the subcontractors or agents of the lessee"

Thus, this section requires the oil companies to provide reclamation of the land following drilling.

Finally, Sec. 6 a(8) "prohibit[s] the export of oil produced under the lease"

Clearly this section is intended to prevent the selling of any extracted oil to China, Japan, etc.


The big question is "Will that pass?" If it does with that provison left in them I have no problems with drilling there. How well the Senate and H of R work together will finally determine what happens there.

at least there are some people in the H of R who saw the light from the last time we sold out Alaska to the interest of the oil companies”

“I am going to repost my statement from yesterday.

Drill it, burn it and get the hell out. Every place on Earth that has oil will be drilled.

Has anyone wondered why no new refinery capasity is being built? Here in Louisiana we have a huge refinery on every mile of the Mississippi but no new ones. The answer is they don't need them. We are near the point of having pumped 1/2 of the oil of the world. To put it in chemical terms we have a limiting reactant so building a bigger reactor will not help. The rest of the world once powered by muscle is now turning to Petro and Natural Gas. The demand for oil in China is increasing 5 times faster than demand for oil in the US. Oil is soon to be a luxury item. Sorry folks that is just the plain fact. Some will have and some will have not.”

“bateauxdriver, then you won't mind an oil well in your back yard ;)

time to look for another source of energy but that won't happen any time soon either.”

“Thermal depolymerization.”

““Thermal depolymerization.”
Phaedrus

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

I plan on being the first one at the dump digging up old toys and soda bottles to redeem them when the time comes. Those are not land fills my boy they are hydrocarbon banks!
last edited: 3/17/05 11:02:14 AM”

“Call me an A-hole will you? Tell me how you really feel about me! I mean if Buchanan is an anti-Semite I must be one too.
>
Sorry guy, that tired canard about Buchanan is wearing thin. Today it seems that anyone who would dare question the foreign policy objectives of the ruling clique in Israel is an anti-Semite. Even the peace parties in Israel don't get any slack. And G_d forbid should anyone of us say anything against what the rabid Lidkud kooks are doing to the Palestinians. You guys will start calling us the N word.
>
Peace out bro! Love you man, mean it :)!
last edited: 3/17/05 11:17:47 AM”

“I would have never thought in a million years that you would vote for Bush.
last edited: 3/17/05 11:16:45 AM”

““Ya know, if everyone wrote as many e mails to their leaders as they do posts bltching about stuff there could be some real change in America..."
Nigal

I do. Almost weekly. Why do you assume posting here is the only action I/we take?

“Mark and Phaed, then why don't you encourage others? Why not say, "Hey, I agree with you and this is what I did. You should too."?”
Nigal

That's why I/we posted about the issue here. Do you think we post just to read inflammitory responses?

“Nigal, what you don't know about people on this board could fill volumes.”
Phaedrus

touche'”

“No SH, it takes a whole lot to get me to call someone an Anti-Semite. The word is over used. But to not call him one would be silly. I actually heard his uncle died in a concentration camp. He fell from a guard tower.”

“"That's why I/we posted about the issue here. Do you think we post just to read inflammitory responses?"

Why do you constantly bltch and cry yet never offer an solutions? Ever give a link to any groups fighting the drilling? I mean if you feel deeply enough to post a thread on TT you’d think it would be worth the time to offer a link. It only takes 3 seconds.

Flame on and don't break your arm patting yourself on the self righteous back.”

“Was that last post directed to me? If so pray tell me who I would write? Please don't recommend my local congressmen or senators. If they can't see the naked aggression in our "liberation" of Iraq do you think they would call Bush down on the outright BS our Clown Prince is feeding the useful idiots out in Red Amerika? I'm not wasting my time. I'd rather just stay in here and hassle you and the other boneheads with one hand while I slap myself on the back with the other!
Attaboy SH! :P”

“Believe it or not Mr. Megalomaniac, I don’t think about you very much. It ain’t all about you SH. So no, it wasn’t directed at you.”

“Well thank you poopypants....I mean Ohio Hiker.....I mean Nigal. It's just you seem to be ragging on me of late and I wanted to be sure. Have a nice day. :)”

“The Sadat family must be outraged at this thread.”

“Why do you constantly bltch and cry yet never offer an solutions? Ever give a link to any groups fighting the drilling? I mean if you feel deeply enough to post a thread on TT you’d think it would be worth the time to offer a link. It only takes 3 seconds.

Flame on and don't break your arm patting yourself on the self righteous back.”
Nigal

There were 4 links in the article I cut & pasted, from the Wilderness Society, on the other thread about this subject.
That's WHY I POSTED it.
last edited: 3/18/05 10:24:43 AM”

“Ha --

Ten Years from now we'll be able to take our SUVs out of mothballs and run them for half a year! *VBG*”

“April 26, 2005 | Back Issues

Administration Misleads on Alaska Drilling Claims

As the Bush Administration re-launches its energy plan, another attempt to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) is underway. The recent narrow passage in the Senate, and an energy bill in the House, makes it all the more important to know exactly what is at stake as the ANWR battle proceeds.


The administration and its pro-drilling allies repeatedly make claims that range from dubious to downright inaccurate. The following is worth noting:


· Arctic drilling will not reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil
Proponents say that drilling in ANWR will reduce America's dependence on imported oil (a dependence that costs taxpayers billions of dollars to station our military in oil-rich regions such as the Middle East). But the earliest any ANWR oil would reach the lower 48 states would be 10 years, and probably longer, thereby having no impact on America's current problem.


Even 20 years from now, when ANWR is expected to reach peak production, it will only supply about 3 percent of U.S. oil consumption at best.


· Energy independence can be achieved through improved energy efficiency
An increase in automobile fuel efficiency standards of 3 miles per gallon would save more than 1 million barrels a day. If U.S. standards for replacement tires were upgraded to those for new cars, it would save 7 billion barrels -- same as the most optimistic estimate for ANWR oil. [1]


· Arctic drilling will not reduce oil prices
Even at peak production, the output of oil from the refuge would be too small to affect prices. The U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration released a report last year stating that, "Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organizations of Petroleum Exporting Countries could countermand any potential price impact of ANWR." [2]


According to the U.S. Geological Survey there are 3.2 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil in the coastal plain. This means that opening the Arctic Refuge to drilling would only increase global oil reserves by less than seven-tenths of one percent, meaning essentially no effect on world oil production and prices. [3]


· Not all ANWR oil is economically viable
Over 7 billion barrels of oil are technically recoverable (if money is not an issue) in the wildlife refuge. The amount that is economically viable is much lower. Another cost problem is transportation of crude oil to the lower 48 states. Western refineries will be at capacity when drilling commences in the refuge. The majority of other refineries are in Texas, meaning the oil would have to be shipped from Alaska down through the Panama Canal back up to Texas. Some experts suggest that this makes the oil more likely to be sold to Asia rather than the U.S. [4]


· Investment in renewable energy will provide more jobs
Studies by the Bureau of Labor statistics and the Congressional Research Service predict that 60,000 to 130,000 jobs would be created if the Refuge were opened for drilling. But the Tellus Institute recently reported that investment in renewable energy and improved energy efficiency would create 700,000 jobs by 2010, and 1.3 million by 2020. A World Wildlife study "America's Global Warming Solutions," states that if the proper energy policies were implemented, 900,000 jobs could be created over a 12-year period. [5]


· Environmental impact far greater than administration claims
The Bush Administration claims that new advances in technology will minimize the ecological impact of drilling, causing only a 2,000-acre "footprint."


The "footprint" includes buildings, pipelines and other related facilities-- but only where they touch ground. In fact, pipelines will cover hundreds of miles of the Refuge, and only their support posts are counted toward the 2,000-acre total. Gravel mines and roads were not counted.


And then, notes Jim Waltman of the Wilderness Society, there will be airstrips, housing, pumping stations, power plants, power lines, sewage treatment, and waste disposal needed to service the work crews.


The 2,000-acre "footprint" also overlooks seismic or other exploration activities, which degrade the arctic environment, with 64,000-pound exploratory rigs. [6] They can only travel on ice roads, whose longevity has already been reduced by half due to global warming. [7]


The U.S. Geological Survey reports that oil and gas deposits are spread throughout the wildlife refuge coastal plain in small pools and pockets, leaving the entire 1.5 million acre area open to leasing and exploration— not just a confined space of 2,000-acres. [8]


All of this, of course, poses an unpredictable threat to the herd of 120,00 porcupine caribout who migrate, forage for food, and calve in the area”