backpacking with your dog

“BUDDUR! Nice boobies.”

“I'm always nice. Sooner or later I have a feeling you'll end up in jail or prison. Threatening a peace officer now?”

“oh yea, will i can beat up both of you!!!”

“Christ on a cracker, peeps sure are pissy today.”

“I have no problem with unleashed dogs, even if they are in a park where they are required if the dog is well behaved. One guy did piss me off with an unleashed dog in the park that ran toward me full speed when he saw me and my small dog. I was lucky and so was he that she's a 3-1/2 pound chihuahua, so I could pick her up and the dog still tried to get at her. If she were a big dog and aggressive, there would have been more trouble than I care to even think about (for the other guy) or if his dog bit mine. Off leash is okay if you can control your dog, but since some people can't, that's why there is that law, not for the good dogs, but for the bad dogs, but everyone suffers.

What I really dislike is off leash dogs that jump up on you with muddy feet, especially when you just start out on your walk or hike. I don't mind them coming up to me otherwise, but I also understand people not wanting dogs to even sniff them. I always keep me dog leashed and by my side when I pass people on the trial, even though she's just a tiny chihuahua.”

“my dog went up to a guy walking his dog one time right outside our house...it was obvious she was just being friendly, she even started to roll over so the guy could rub her belly...the jack ass maced her right in front of me...i've never been in a fight in my ADULT life but that's the closest i've came to punching someone...if i hadn't been worried about getting her inside and washing her eyes out i'm sure i would have decked him”

“Most communities require that the dog be leashed. Most communities ALLOW the dog to be pepper sprayed or shot if they appear threatening or bite. In (many)a court of law YOU would receive the violation or misdemeanor summons for the un-leashed dog. This may possibly be changed to a felony in the forseable future. This summons is ACTUALLY an arrest, but you are released with an appearance ticket, to appear before a judge at some future date. If you attacked the guy that maced your dog, you would probably be arrested for assualt. If you assaulted him, it would probably give him a defense for macing you. Court always seems to be a spin of the wheel. If you get a lawyer it's aprx. $250-850 an HOUR for court time. That isn't the 5 mins or even days you spend before the judge. That fee could be (per hour) the time the lawyer has to wait around until your case is heard. I've been amazed at the verdicts I've heard hundreds (prob thousands)of times in local, state & federal court. Your best bet (& cheapest)even then, is to come to agreement with the other party before hand. I find federal court the most intresting. There are multiple exceptions if the dog was leashed, in your fenced yard being held by you etc. Possibly even eye witnesses that would go to court stating the dog was non threatening by reasonable standards. Dogs have biten & attacked so many people lately, that most judges would probably hold the owner of the un-leashed dog liable. The fine would probably be relatively small (other than the assault charge) but then you would (most likely) pay (out of pocket) for his medical bills which would be outrageous if he goes to the ER. Full private pay fee - no big insurance co discount or the lawsuit.

Times are a changing. Peace Officers can use force to defend themselves or a 3rd party. They also are under no obligation to retreat.

I "still" don't understand while leashing your dog ESPECIALLY on public property is such a problem for dog owners?”

“Peace Officer, yeah right. Your not instilling the spirit of peace. Your inciting dog owners and threating them. Not a very good thing to do, and illegal also. But what the heck, your use to breaking the law to enforce it. Oh, by the way. People can defend their property too.
last edited: 12/19/05 5:49:10 PM”

“Wow, this is a touchy subject. Remember that leashing your dog not only protects others, it also protects the dog. Just as not feeding bears protects you and the bear, an overly aggressive dog (or one just assumed to be)might be "put down" if not kept on a leash. I myself have never had a problem with unleashed dogs on the trail, but many do.”

“

"Keep your eyes peeled, boys. Someone's going to make love to this chicken any second now."
last edited: 12/19/05 6:30:31 PM”

“Actually the people with loose dogs are the only ones breaking the law or threatening others. Emotions don't count. You just want to obey laws, you feel like obeying?

§ 121-a. Exemption from civil liability

1. If any dog shall, without justification, attack a person, or behaves in a manner which a reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent threat of serious physical injury to a person, when such person is peaceably conducting himself in a place where he may lawfully be, such person or any other person witnessing the attack or threatened attack may destroy such dog while so attacking, and no liability in damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.”

“Pffft... I'd sooner leash dog-haters than my own dogs. My dogs remain unleashed. Always have, always will. Here in CA, in the huge, massive wilderness areas where dogs are allowed, they do not have to be "leashed" contrary to what dog-haters say, as long as they are under your control. In National Parks they are not allowed in the backcountry, and in most State Parks they are not allowed, but in the National Forests and Wilderness Areas, leashes are not required and no freaking dog-hater is gonna tell me otherwise. There's plenty of dog-free lands for dog-haters so don't I don't let their paranoia affect me or my dog's WONDERFUL experience of roaming the wildest country in the lower 48, unhindered by leashes. This, of course, is for people who have their dogs trained and under control. I come across backcountry rangers often and they have nothing but compliments for my UNLEASHED dogs. Dog-haters citing regulations to supposedly make us tremble and be paranoid has no bearing on me, and the backcountry rangers I come across confirm this. If your dogs are allowed in the backcountry and are well trained, no steenking leashes required. They enjoy the wilderness every bit as much as us.”

“I have been nipped on the trail by so many un-leashed dogs with un-caring owners who all swear that their dog never did that before (until you check complaints). I will just shoot the next dog that bites or threatens me.”
catskhiker
5:42:24 PM
12/18/05

I've never been nipped even by the most ill behaved unsupervised dogs. If you've been nipped on the trail "so many" dogs that tells me more about you than about dogs and dog owners.”

“Keep your eyes peeled, boys. Someone's going to make love to this chicken any second now."
Nigel, WTF?”

“Our community has no leash laws. Generally we keep our dogs on leash because they're ill-trained idiots (because their owners were and are lazy). But there are plenty of dogs out there who aren't on leashes. The only problem we seem to have is when we're running our dogs other dogs want to come along with us, lol. Their owners generally want them to stay home though so we have to stop and wait for owners to come and get their dogs.
Once we had a terrier chase after us and nip at one of our dogs. My dog, Cully puffed his ruff up until he looked like a lion and growled. The terrier turned tail and ran home, yipping.”

“California Civil Code section 3342 imposes strict liability on the owner of a dog when the dog bites a person. In this State, a dog does not get "one free bite." The "dog bite statute" (Civil Code section 3342) states:

3342. (a) The owner of any dog is liable for the damages suffered by any person who is bitten by the dog while in a public place or lawfully in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog, regardless of the former viciousness of the dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness. A person is lawfully upon the private property of such owner within the meaning of this section when he is on such property in the performance of any duty imposed upon him by the laws of this state or by the laws or postal regulations of the United States, or when he is on such property upon the invitation, express or implied, of the owner.

Civil Code section 3342 represents a fundamental determination of legal policy by the California Legislature that the risk of a dog unexpectedly biting a person is to be borne by the person who has chosen to own that dog and thus create that risk for society, even when the owner is not at fault in any way and has no reason to know that the dog is vicious. The statute is "designed...to prevent dogs from being a hazard to the community." Davis v. Glaschler (1992) 11 Cal.App.4th 1392, 1399. The dog owner has created an unavoidable risk for society and therefore should be held responsible for the consequences of that risk.”

“I never even said I let her run loose in leash only areas. That was your assumption. I may very well be following the law and you don’t know. It is obvious what type of law enforcement officer you really are when you try to play trail cop, disregard the force continuum (being nipped is hardly a call for lethal force), and the way you manipulate your position by claiming I am threatening a peace officer (on the trail you’re just another Joe Shmoe).”

“I really, really love dogs but I hate it when a group of 2-3 come running at me full-blast on the trail with their owner yelling and screaming at them like a damn fool. I can't offer any sort of legal analysis but I do notice that many trails I have been on say pets must be leashed and waste picked up. Yet I don't think I have ever seen a dog leashed and it's easy to tell the difference between dog poop and the poop of everything else in the forest. It seems inconsistent to make such an effort to practice LNT principals only to ignore the rules that are inconvenient. People will pick up their own dog’s poop when they crap it in a city park but won’t dispose of it properly in the backcountry. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that people obey rules only when there are social consequences (i.e. “people will see”).”

“Boy!!! What a contentious lot.

Actually, even though bitten I have never written a summons or arrested anyone for their dog. It's a pet peeve (we all have them) & although I'd want to shoot/mace the next dog, I probably never will because I have (too much) restraint. I wouldn't hesitate to harm an animal (or person)if a child was being attacked. I myself, have been guilty of what I complain about. It's about courtesy. Don't like dog feces on the trail either. Your dogs run ahead & you can't see over the next rise or around the corner. Dogs are natuarally protective of their owners. I bushwhack. This can be unexpected & startle the owner. Dogs have much faster reaction time then even black belts.”

“holy jeabus...you actually went through the trouble of finding the statute that makes it illegal...some of you people really need a hobby, try hiking LOL”

“It’s all a matter training. My dog never gives anyone the bum’s rush because I have properly trained her and I am responsible with leashing her, like putting her on lead when hikers come down the trail even in areas where leashes are not required. My dog has never even been aggressive with anyone so I would have no problem using equal force in defending my property (dog) if some did threaten her with force.”

“I wish I could take my dog backpacking. He is such an ox and a damn dope. He is well trained (I have worked hard with him) but not so much that he won't forget himself when badly distracted. He wouldn't hurt a fly and loves everyone but the sight of a jubilant 110lb rottweiler running you down (even if it's to score attention and give you a kiss) tends to freak people out. I just leave him at home. He is happy enough with all the kids coming and going giving him belly rubs and an occasional jog with the old man.
last edited: 12/20/05 9:22:14 AM”

“please post when and where you will be, so that I may avoid that area.

I agree with Buck...there are plenty of places that allow free roaming dogs. I'll stick to those places. Khatru, like Buck's dogs, is a very well behaved dog. He doesn't even chase wild ponies in Grayson Highlands. He looks at them, but he listens to my commands and just stands there.

As for shooting a dog because they nipped at you. That is laughable. To kill any living creature because of a "nipping" is a sin against the Universe. You are the violent person. I suggest seeing a councilor to get your fears under control.

To get upset because muddy paws might have been put on you at the beginning of a hike...thats funny. Thats why they invented soap and water.

At the end of the day, it is prejidous(sp?) and fear that has shown its face. Fear leads to hatred, which is what has been spouted here. It is prevelent in huge amounts on this forum. It is an unattractive thing and is unworthy of additional comment.”

“Jimmy, a training collar is a great training tool for the trail. I always kept the training collar on Honey when she was off lead so I still had 100% control of her even when she was loose. Now she is 100% voice controled. She won't even break comand when deer and animals pop up on us.”

“That's cool. Perhaps some day. I have never taken my dogs on the trail. My wife’s chihuahua doesn't count) but my rottie would be fun. For now he stays at home.”

“To get upset because muddy paws might have been put on you at the beginning of a hike

plus, who's ever been on a trip and not gotten dirty...hell sometimes i just rub some mud on me at the trailhead just to get it out of the way”

“If and when we hike together you should bring him along. Dog's do real well when they have a trail tested dog to hang out and learn from. Honey started her hiking career with Budder Dog and she learned a lot of good habits from him. They would have a ball wrestling too.”

“yea, and i can bring one of my dogs and she can completely undo everything nigal's dog teaches LOL...i have two dogs, 1 is the best trail dog you could have, the other's a beagal mix, nuff said”

“Oh man, hounds are tough when ya get 'em outdoors. The only time Honey acts up in camp is with food. She doesn't understand that just because there's food in a bowl on the ground that it's not specificlly hers. Her and Ruby's baby Copper have had a few tense moments about this.”

“sadly, my lab mix sammie is 10 and starting to slow down...we're thinking she might have arthritis too...she licks her hip from time to time and is reluctant to go upstairs...she's had epilepsy since about 3 yrs old but that hasn't seemed to bother her on the trail...she takes meds for that”

“Another opinion is needed like another az hole, but here I go.

I have met some really amazing dogs on the trail. These dogs usually seem to reflect the social attitude of the owners. They are friendly, courtious, and respect personal space and property.

Yet it is all to common to find hikers and dogs with no social grace. I have been enjoying lunch on more than one peek to have someones dog come bounding through the woods to drool all over me and my food with the owners distant voice being heard yelling "don't worry he is friendly". Often these dogs are wet and filthy and they have no busness all over me or my food.

These owners think "oh geez, it is just a dog and some dirt. You are out in the woods anyway". Would it be okay if I ran over to their quiet corner of the woods and drooled on them and rubbed dirt in their food.

I don't care if the dog is friendly. I want the dog to be in control.”

“I agree 100%.”

“The nerve of some of you...trying to tell us how to hike when you are nowhere even remotely close and have no way of even being affected by our dogs. Sheesh!”

“

nigal-my wife dragged me kicking and screaming to the mall last night so i though while i was there i'd pick one of these up for my dog...now we'll have to hike together...yeh, that won't look gay(not that there's anything wrong with that)...two guys hiking together with their dogs dressed in cute litter sweaters”

“Thrifty, what about his poor little feet. You need to get the dog some cute little matching boots. Maybe when you get some more snow on the ground you can get some little doggy snowshoes too.

You and Nigal would be adorable if you coridinated the dogs dress.”

“LOL, if you saw the hair between my dogs tows you'd know she doesn't need them”