The Official "Go towards the light!" Thr ead

“Falwell Critically Ill With Pneumonia


Wednesday March 30, 2005 12:01 PM

LYNCHBURG, Va. (AP) - Doctors for the Rev. Jerry Falwell described the Moral Majority founder as stable but ``still critically ill'' with viral pneumonia, the same infection he was hospitalized for less than a month ago.

Falwell, 71, was breathing with the help of a respirator Tuesday after being admitted to Lynchburg General Hospital in ``respiratory arrest'' the night before, meaning his breathing had slowed or stopped.”

“wonder if he has a living will on what to do?”

“He was on Larry King last week, said he wanted to use every possible to keep him alive.”

“We've already prepared a welcome here, for my dear old friend. We owe him so much.

I got soul!”

“The high mullah of the American Taliban.”

“Have you heard about the guy who had a near death experience and survived? When he regained conscieusness uh conciousness uh con when he came to he said he saw God. All the Docs and the hospital chaplain gathered round and asked what was God like. The guy says, "She's black and she's pissed."”

“I don’t know Jerry Falwell and have never paid any attention to him. I don’t know what he teaches or what his position is on any matter of importance. I do think I would have heard about any public executions or maimings done at his instruction in a sports stadium. I think I would have been aware of any police actions taken upon American citizens under his authority.

Like him or not calling him “The high mullah of the American Taliban” is out of place. There is no action of his that remotely approaches the actions of the Taliban. This is the type of outlandish reference and name calling that stops political discourse and discussion. It ends communication between people of differing opinions. It does not advance understanding and the perpetrator loose all credibility with anyone except those share the same lack of regard for truth and civility.”

“mtn gal has spoken.”

“Falwell has said many inflammatory things about people not of his "faith" seemingly to stir resentment against those not of his "faith".

He is a hustler and a huckster.
He is a cheap suit salesman and a carnie.

Jerry's drive to amass wealth out-shines any of the good things he may have done.

HE'S A TELEVANGELIST FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!!!

Those guys prey upon lonely old women for the most part........for money!
They are his "marks".”

“But he's right, the purple TeleTubby is GAY!”

“I was not defending him. I object to priestcraft also. But using deceptive words to part a foolish old woman from her money is not anywhere near being a taliban mullah. Closer to a real estate salesman or lawyer.”

“If we look at how things would be if the Jerry Falwells had their way the Taliban would not be far from it. He’s the one who said 911 was the fault of the abortionists and the gays.”

“I know you were only engaging in hyperbole to make a point.


I know that you weren't actually saying that lawyers are as bad jerry Fawell.


So, in spite of the fact that my wife is a lawyer, and I work in a law firm (i am a banker) . .. I will not take offense.

After all . ..hyperbole is hyperbole.

But. . .if I were to take offense, I would argue that, from my perspective,

it is much less offensive to call Fawell to the High Mullah of the American Taliban than it is to suggest that lawyers are as low on the totem pole as he is.


The Christian Fundementalist that he represent ARE the taliban of america.


They may not be as over the top as the Taliban in Afghanistan . ..but for this country they are pretty fringe. Check out the views on women, minorities, gays, abortion, civil rights, human evolution, separation of church and state, independent judiciary etc etc etc.

It is nothing but a power grab for these folks. A power grab financed on the back of little old ladies, men and other suckers.

just like the Taliban .. .its not about god and spirituality .. .its about power.


He IS the High Mullah of the American Taliban.”

““ The Christian Fundementalist that he represent”

That’s exactly right lee. Any and all religious extremists mean but one thing for the populous…a loss of rights. They may not be the same rights but we lose them none the less. Just because they wouldn’t make women wear burkas and shoot people in soccer stadiums doesn’t mean they wouldn’t take rights away. Same thing, different focus and extreme.”

“Mtn gal is right we should not make fun of anyone in his shape. I do not like the man personally, but wish him health or the peace of God in death. The same as I would wish to any of you.”

“TV money husksters and lawyers are the lowest of the low.

Snakes will not bite lawyers, due to professional curtesy.”

“Ok, Ok my reference to lawyers and real-estate salesman was a little hypocritical. Like I said I don’t know what Fawell taught. He may have been after power. He had no power over me. As far as I can see any religion that pays its clergy is not Christian. Any religion that forces its will on others is also not Christian.

My point is simply that it is discussion of ideas that allows people to understand each other and maybe even find some common ground. Labeling and name calling that invoke strong emotional and inaccurate images is polarizing and divisive.”

“any religion that pays it's clergy isn't Christian?

How do you propose they feed and clothe themselves? Are you about to quote the verse about the birds of the fields.....”

“Matt. 10:8
Acts 20:34
1 Cor. 4:12
1 Cor. 9:18
2 Thes. 3:8
There are Churchs with not paid clergy.”

“Churches with more than 20 members? Churches that aren't fundamentalist types?”

“Unpaid clergy? Christianity can be pretty complex, I'll stick with the pros.”

“Dayhiker, one I know of has almost 12 million members all over the world.”

“I'm talking individual church numbers, not total denomination numbers. If you're the pastor at a 1000 person church then you're probably also running a $800k dollar per year entity. Kind of hard to do that with no pay. It'd be tough to pay for kids college with collard greens and green tomatoes.”

“Their congregations can be for a few people to about 800 people. Almost everyone over the age of 12, that is willing, has some responsibility or job in the church. As many a 3 congregations share a building.”

“LDS?

If so, I didn't realize that their pastors were unpaid. Interesting.”

“I call Jerry Falwell the American Taliban because, like the Taliban, he wants to push his religion as a political agenda and has little toleration for other ideas.”

“I don't know about all that Geo, he's had that rep, but I've seen him on plenty of the political talk shows and he always seemed pretty tolerant of others and there views.”

“It would seem they only recieve finacual help when on missions and they have left their secular job. Very interesting. I did not know this.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/paidclergy.htm”

““I don't know about all that Geo, he's had that rep, but I've seen him on plenty of the political talk shows and he always seemed pretty tolerant of others and there views.”

Guys like him and Robertson have this appearance of tolerance when they are secular shows or they are on their own shows speaking to prospective converts (donors). It's when they are among their own they let their guards down and say stuff like 9/11 was the fault of the gays and abortionists.”

“True. But I think Robertsons a lot farther out there than Falwell.”

“Falwell's watched his step since Baker and that other freak went down in a blaze of infamy.”

“Jimmy swaggert.

I love those guys.

I remember the Penthouse issue with the prostitute that Swagger used to hang out with.


They would drive around in a car together while she diddled with herself and with Swaggert.


I can still see the tears running down his face.


hell can't be hot enough.”

“With regard to the LSD.

First let me say that I don't know what the heck I am talking about.

Second, let me say that that has never stopped me.

Only regarding church and wealth I have two observations:

1. When the Mormons founded Salt Lake, Brighman Young took a lot of land directly into his name. And he was pretty brutual about the land deals and other personal transactions in which he was involved. the Young family amassed a significant amount of personal wealth through extremely tight fisted control of their personal, and the church holdings.


2. The mormons have the highest per capita rate of charitable contributions in the US. Higher than any other group. It averages around . . .10% of income. The math is simple .. . it is through the mandatory (is it mandatory??) tithing. 10% of income to the church.



I have nothing against Mormons. They certainly give all appearance of being amongst the most decent, hard wokring upstanding folks in this country. Period.


But I still don't stray to far from my original theme. That organized religion, at the top of the power structure (think the Pope, Fawell, Robertson, the Ayatollas in Iran, the taliban et al) is less about spirituality than about the accumulation of power and wealth.”

“My source on the Salt lake/Young stuff is the book that Stephen Ambrose wrote about the building of the transcontinetal railroad.



As the railroad approach Salt lake, mormon labor (and the contracts negoitated by Young), property and rights of way, and the route of the railroad were all bitterly negoiated . .. .and, accroding to Ambrose, netted Young and his immediate lieutenants, significant wealth.”

“Nigal, I have been studying them. LDS Missionaries are supported by the family, the members or themselves in dedicated funds. No tithing money goes to their support for daily living expenses. Your link is to someone site that is an enemy of that Church and that needs to be understood when you read that stuff. It is like asking the republicans for information about the democrats.



http://www.lds.org/newsroom/page/0,15606,4032-1---14-168,00.html”

“Dulp! That's what I get for skimming. Sorry about that. Enemy of the church huh? Was it lee? LOL!

I find Mormons very refreshing in this day and age of wishy washy watered down doctrine. I have great respect for religious groups or churches that walk the walk.”

“Lee, there are no “Young’s” in the top leadership of the LDS Church. Steve Young is stinking rich though. There seems to be a lot of rich Mormons. Is it because they are greedy or blessed?”

“I gotta ask .. . and I mean this in the best possible way.


Are you a member of the LDS. And if you are . . .


Do you wear magic underwear??



See. I ask for two . . . well, three . .. .reasons.

1. Your proclivity for enjoying being nude.

2. Because Howard Stern asked Ricky Shhroeder the same thing (for the record he said yes, but wouldn't show it).

3. Becuase I am a perv and want to know what kind of underwear you are wearing.”

“you got me buddy . ..I am literally LMAO!!

Thanks!

I miss you over the next month.”

“I thought we were talking about unpaid Christian clergy, not mormons.”

“Lee, Not yet a member.

But I have seen what you call “magic underwear”. Not a big deal, it just reminds the members of the promises they made to God. Only the most faithful wear it. Sort of like what some other religions do like some Jews. Wear something as a sign and reminder of their faith.

They don’t wear it when swimming or participating in most athletic events. Most of my unclothed activity is in private. If I were to join I may need to change some of that.”

“Myth:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a Christian church.

The very foundation, history, and name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bear ample testimony that God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ, who atoned for the sins of mankind and died on the cross, are the center of Church theology and worship.
http://www.lds.org/newsroom/page/0,15606,4038-1---16-168,00.html”

“Right, the standard I would apply is this, the vast majority of Christian denominations regard the LDS as a cult. Sure the LDS can say whatever they want but...”

“Mainstream Christianity has always called those who do not adhere 100% to there doctrine as a cult. It is really no different in it’s relationship to mainstream Christianity than say the catholic to the protestant church. Surprisingly some of the fringe churches such as the 7th day Adventists and others are closer to the truth on many subjects than the mainstream churches.”

“Mtn gal . . .

thanks for being a good sport. Best wishes for your exploration/investigation.





Bison --

For the record . . ..all religion, however it is practiced .... is a construct of man.

All the rules, pagentry, traditions, prayers, customs, etc etc etc . .its all man made.


You would be hard pressed to argue the legitimacy of one man made fiction over another man made fiction.


In terms of legitimacy there is no distinction between Judaism, Hinduism,Budism, Islam traditions, and/or any form of Christianity be it, Catholism, Mormonism, Fundementalism etc etc

You get the idea.


If I make something up based on fiction . . .it is no more "real" or valid then something you make up.


That's what irks me most about squabbles between religions . .its all made up .. .how can any one claim to be right???”

““the vast majority of Christian denominations regard the LDS” as a threat. A cult dies when its leader dies. Your statement sounds a lot like what the inhabitants of Jerusalem said about Jesus about 2000 years ago. True followers of Jesus will always have persecutors.”

““Your statement sounds a lot like what the inhabitants of Jerusalem said about Jesus about 2000 years ago.”

Just say christ killing jews and be done with it! LOL! Just kidding. Many great and learned rabbis have said that Christianity serves an obvious purpose in the world. It prepares the world for the very idea of a Messiah and they also say, “For some reason God has seen fit to have the church survive so it is in His plan somehow. Who are we to argue it then?”. I’ve been reading a great book called Why the Jews Rejected Jesus. It’s not too great for the christian pallet but it does give the context in a very interesting light and has shown me a lot about how I view the church.”

“Nigal my point is that the LDS is not a part of mainstream Christianity, regardless of your personal opinion of mainstream Christianity. This is something that the major Protestant denominations and the Catholic church can agree on. The LDS manifestly rejects some of the most basic tenets of Christian faith, kinda hard to reconcile yourself as Christian if you don't believe in the Trinity.”

““With regard to the LSD.

First let me say that I don't know what the heck I am talking about.”
lee
12:00:03 PM
3/31/05

Far out..........man!”

“Bison ---

For the record. Let me say I respect all people who practice any religion the world over. Whatever your, believes . .they are yours.

If it keeps you at peace, gives you guidance, provides comfort and solace, a sense of place, a foundation, and importantly, keeps you from killing your neighbor . . .more power to you.

I respect that. I think its great.

Obviously I have a problem with religions that DO espouse killing their neighbors.



My problems comes from the playground sort of . . .my religion is better than yours argument (which, by the way, has cost more lives through war than I could ever count).


See. to me. that kind of argument makes no intrinsic sense.

There is no god. there is no higher power.


So if you chose to make one up, or follow some rules made up for you . .you really have no basis for declaring that your rules, or your god, or your path or your heaven . ..are any better than anyone elses.

Its all a fiction. Just lead your life. Be at peace. The worms will get you in the end anyway.”