God Fights Back Against Soddomites

“Its all in the book: "The Da Vinci Code"
Didnt anybody watch dateline last night ?
Jesus was married and had a kid and the holy grail is Mary Magdaline. Secret societies,
Opus day, Man on grassy knoll, etc...”

“awwww, the man on grassy knoll theory”

“Solitary hiker, nice post. Enjoyed the discussion.”

“This is a very interesting issue for the Catholic Church because I think that it shows how two standards can be operable on the same issue.

There is a dogmatic approach that says sex outside of marriage is sinful and, thus, gay sex is wrong.

But there is also a pastoral approach in which particular people trying to live the gospel might choose a gay partnership as the most moral of a particular range of choices.

The church has conceded that God creates people who are born gay and lesbian. Therefore, living morally as a gay or lesbian Catholic is much more difficult than living morally as a heterosexual Catholic. One has an acceptable avenue by which to gain fulfullment. One has no acceptable avenue by which to gain fulfillment.

So, let's say that one is born gay. The range of choices might be as follows: 1) Live completely chaste, 2) Live in a long-term monogamous partnership, 3) Sleep with a different person every night of the week, 4) Burn down the shelter at a local park.

To live as Christ, according to current official Catholic theology, that person - and all people - must be completely chaste outside of procreative marriage-bound sex. No masturbation. No oral or anal sex. No sex with a long-time emotional partner.

There are certainly some people who could live like that. However, not everyone can live like that. This brings us to the pastoral situation. A priest, confidant, advisor or earnest Catholic must in this case make the best possible decision.

Knowing that perfect chastity would be extremely difficult, this person born gay would then choose a lifelong partnership with someone else who is gay. They would go to mass together, volunteer at the local soup kitchen, read the Bible and generally encourage good living.

That would be a pastoral success. A reasonably good and moral outcome resulted from a difficult moral question. This result was much better than living a life of complete alienation and...say...burning down the park shelter.

Catholic theology has built this into the equation. It states that gay sex, since it is outside of marriage is not the best way to live. It also states that great understanding must be given to gays and lesbians. It demands perfection, but understands humanity.

Now, as this applies to the selection of a Pope. It is my hope that the next Pope will keep the current theology - to maintain church unity with the African and Latin American churches, but continue to allow and encourage groups like Dignity in the United States AND keep the Catholic Church out of the politics on this issue. No more church supported legislative bans on gay marriage in the secular culture.

Keep the traditional, but leave room for the pastoral.”

““Which just happened to accidentally and accurately beyond a statistical doubt preview the events and course of the succeeding centuries and millenia!”
i man robot

IMR - the reason this is laughable is because all these people who see infallible predictions hidden in the Bible - are only able to use it to perfectly predict the past, not the future. The interpretations have all been made retrospectively. The passages you site could be intrepeted many ways. It says something about human ingenuity that the Bible can be intrepeted to predict things that have happened in the past, but after it was written.”

“i seriously doubt the 1 in 10 figure. but it wouldnt matter if it was 1 in a million. hate for nothing other than sexual preference is bullsht”

“The 'da vinci code' is no more credible than the 'bible code' or the other books and television documentaries about such subjects as the 'bermuda triangle' and 'ufo sightings'.

There is a record of many secular authors of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. centuries who attempted exhaustively to determine and perpetuate the truth conserning the life of the man called Jesus and there were many groups whose agenda was to discredit the accounts contained in the gospels.

Jesus , in fact, is the most scrutinized person ever to live.
last edited: 4/14/05 9:11:01 PM”

“As a Christian, I am uncomfortable with harsh denunciations of homosexuals. I agree that homosexual acts are sinful, but I believe that the homosexual's need for grace, mercy, and salvation is more important than whatever gratification a Christian gets from pointing out this sin. I commit many sins daily, from thinking bad thoughts to drinking too much. If not for my faith in the sufficiency of Jesus' atoning sacrifice, I would deserve eternal condemnation. By myself I could never hope to meet God's standard of holiness.

I have many friends who are homosexual, and I have discussed my Christian beliefs with them. They all eventually realize that I believe their lifestyle is sinful, but I am always careful to let them know of my own desperate need for God's grace and forgiveness. Even the apostle Paul struggled with sin and temptation - he said that he did not do what he wanted to do (good works), and the things he did, he did not want to do (sinful acts). "Who will rescue me from this body of death?" he asked (Romans 7:24).

Jesus himself said that there was more rejoicing in heaven over the recovery of one lost soul, than 99 who were already living in God's will. I think anyone who calls him or herself a Christian needs to be very careful not to alienate the unsaved by being overly judgmental. Christians are obligated to point out sin in the lives of their saved brethren, to rebuke and encourage one another. But we are also called to emulate Jesus, to present the gospel in an attractive way to those who are in need of His message of forgiveness and salvation.

I think if Jesus came back today we would see Him in gay bars, HIV clinics, and homeless shelters, ministering to the lonely, the sick, and the poor. First, He would offer His gracious message of forgiveness and mercy. Only after they had received His gift of salvation, would He tell them to "go and sin no more."”

“well said, o. its so rare for someone calling themselves a christian to actually act like one. youre one of the good ones”

“of course, you do realize, for your efforts oryx will call you a homo”

“omahiker - Right on. I've found most Christians agree with you, but there are unfortunately enough vocal loud-mouth "haters" that give Christian's a bad reputation. Your attitude toward homosexuality is right on imo.”

“Omahiker, that was a great post.

I am just slightly left of that position, but only slightly.

What I think was best about it was its positive nature.

I believe that following Christ is a profoundly positive journey. In the end, Good will prevail.

So much of what passes for Christianity and Catholicism these days is negative. We can't do this. We must oppose this. While I am not advocating a weak-kneed Christianity, I think that we are called by God to do something great and positive and energizing.

Reach for Heaven rather than trying to avoid Hell.”

“That is the first photo I have seen of Phaedrus' Mom.

+++++++++++

So the 10% figure is a lie obviously. The next question is how does less than 1% of the population influence the other 99% so effectively?”

“The answer is that people like you enjoy being led.”

“Phaedrus tells another lie.

What evidence do you have to show that I am easily led?

None of course, but your theory may be valid that the homosexuals have created a public relations machine that will lead people down the wrong path. If more people stood up and confronted the lies and immorality of homosexuals the truth might change the opinions of the easily led.”

“Omaha Hikers post made great sense to me. A co-worker and friend was a minister in a very evangelical, biblical literal church used to talk with me about religeon and his church all the time.

He was very strict in his biblical morals: He and his son prayed together after he confessed smoking a cigarette with other kids on his High School football team. His son, with his encouragement, quit the team because he felt the temptations from the team mates was too strong.

And, he told me that an active un-repentant gay male was asked to leave a church group he ran. He was very careful to tell me that he took the same approach with anyone else who was unrepentant about their sins - that he took the same position with people who were unrepetantly involved in un-married heterosexual relationships.

He felt singling out homosexuality was un-biblical.

While we often disagreed about things, there was a consistentcy and intellectual honesty about him that I always respected. He was headed to Eastern Europe to evangelize there. I hope he is well.”

“Omaha Hikers post made great sense to me. A co-worker and friend was a minister in a very evangelical, biblical literal church used to talk with me about religeon and his church all the time.

He was very strict in his biblical morals: He and his son prayed together after he confessed smoking a cigarette with other kids on his High School football team. His son, with his encouragement, quit the team because he felt the temptations from the team mates was too strong.

And, he told me that an active un-repentant gay male was asked to leave a church group he ran. He was very careful to tell me that he took the same approach with anyone else who was unrepentant about their sins - that he took the same position with people who were unrepetantly involved in un-married heterosexual relationships.

He felt singling out homosexuality was un-biblical.

While we often disagreed about things, there was a consistentcy and intellectual honesty about him that I always respected. He was headed to Eastern Europe to evangelize there. I hope he is well.”

“Oops”

“ZzzzzzzZZzzzZzzz.... *snork* mumble ZzzzzZzz.”
Phaedrus
4:12:55 PM
4/13/05”

“bbw, you can be really disgraceful sometimes”

“I am often amazed by the kinds of things bbw chooses to fantasize about.
last edited: 4/17/05 4:59:45 PM”

“As long as you keep it to fantasy bbw, I have no major objections. It would be great if you could keep your sicker fantasies to yourself though.”

“That is really funny, remonstrating against bbw with Phaedrus's graphic getting a bye.”

“At the risk of giving him a heart attack, I have to agree with Manuka on this one.”

“So lets summarize some of Oryx's posts. Black people commit crime, Arabs can't be trusted, America is at war with the Arab people, WW2 internment was a necessary evil, all gay people are sinners and something must be done about it. Getting a picture of the person he is here?”

“the perfect Republican he is”

“Hitler was cloned?”

“Giddy-Yap, you guys!

Where does Oryx stand with relation to Atila The Hun?
last edited: 4/18/05 11:39:16 AM”

“Ewker, you lumping all republicans in with the likes of Oryx is much like him lumping all homosexuals in with the devil.”

“"the devil" is a homosexual?”

““So lets summarize some of Oryx's posts. Black people commit crime, Arabs can't be trusted, America is at war with the Arab people, WW2 internment was a necessary evil, all gay people are sinners and something must be done about it. Getting a picture of the person he is here?”
y2
12:24:01 PM


And bbw says I need medication and close supervision because I made up a hoax thread? Go figure...”

“Sass, if Oryx was a Dem the Reps on here would lump them all together so turn about was fair play”

““Sass, if Oryx was a Dem .....”
Ewker


"Dem" -ocrat

or

"Dem" -on ??

Just punning with you here Ewker. :-)”

“If Oryx was a Democrat, ... now there's a proposition! Now we know why Howard Dean screamed.”

“Treebeard, maybe bbw wants to supervise you.

Be afraid.....”

“lol@manuka..good one..seems oryx could fit demon ;)”

“Or Mad Dog”

“whatever”

“Violin, you're scaring the straight people.”

“With a Sodomite here
And a Sodomite there
Here a Sodomite
There a Sodomite
Everywhere a Sodomite
Old McOryx had a farm
Ee-Yi Ee-Yi-O”

“"That is really funny, remonstrating against bbw with Phaedrus's graphic getting a bye.”

phaedrus's graphic wasnt aimed at anyone in particular, but if itll make you feel better

naughty, naughty phaedy”

“It's interesting to note as some of you pointed out that 1-2% of the population is homosexual.

I just read that 1.1% of the population is schizophrenic.

I never would have guessed the two demographics were so similar in size.

Just an interesting fact to throw out.”

“so whats your point?”

“I think we all see 1% of something and dismiss it. For example, if you have a 1% chance of getting sick, you don't even think about it. OTOH, if you take 1% of 300,000,000 people in the US and you have 3,000,000 folks. That's a whole buncha folks. Just pointing out the obvious.”

“That's right dayhiker.

There is a lot of schizophrenics that are underrepresented in congress.

*** EQUAL RIGHTS FOR SCHIZOPHRENICS ***

crash bang - I wonder what percent of the population sits around eating too many potato chips.”

“It must be exhausting fightin' all those Sodomites.

How about an ice cold beer?”

“You didn't like THAT graphic?

”

“That's rather graphic.”