Poppin' Big Agnes' cherry

“On our recent backpacking trip to the BWCA, Three of the four of us had Big Agnes Air cores with us. All 3 failed. Let's face it. You realize you have to be very delicate with a pad like this, and I babied mine like it was made of glass.
I have been frustrating myself this afternoon finding what appears to be air leaking from nowhere in particular. It seems like the inside coating under the ripstop has failed miserably. I have microscopic holes all over and not so much as a ding or a piece of dirt on the pad. I have isolated 9 leaks which were so small, they were very hard to detect. All of my holes were on the top side as well. I noticed I would have to reinflate the pad halfway through the evening to last until morning. The other guys had similar experiences as well. I got 18 bag nights out of this piece of crap. What hotel did thier gear testers sleep at to try out this pad?

Oh yeah....btw...thier patch kit is a worthless as Ryan Seacrest”

“"I noticed I would have to reinflate the pad halfway through the evening to last until morning"

i noticed that too. havent had any holes yet, tho

at least ryan seacrest has a star in hollywood”

“The air seeps out of the ripstop, leading me to believe the inside coating has failed.

As for Seacrest....everyone gets thier 15 minutes, just happens they had a square open.”

“So far I have used my insulated air core 7 times while on the AT, 5 nights on the wooden floors of shelters, one on the gravel under the overhang of the shelter and once in the tent. No problems yet.”

“I'm glad a few here have had good luck with thiers. I just don't feel confident in sinking another 50 bucks into something that performed so poorly. Too bad, the comfort factor was a whopping 10 out of 10 with that pad.”

“send or take it back and get a new one. If they won't stand behind their product spread the word about it”

“j/k about ryan seacrest. david hasselhoff is a much bigger star”

“Ok, CB let me erase that analogy about Seacrest and insert a new one.


It's about as worthless as a tampon in Phylis Dillers purse. How's that?

I don't know about sending it back. After all it's been used 18 times. Well, 15 before leaks. It is used, and under conditions which they do not know. I know I took extra care of this pad, but how would I prove that to BA. I bought it, it failed me under what I thought were normal conditions. Well...it's back to Thermarest for this hiker.”

“Same here, Lorax. Mine was good for 3 trips, then would be completely flat only a few hours into the night.”

“Lorax, you have nothing to lose by taking it back.
Email Big Agnes and tell them the truth. If they value their product you will be given a new one.
If you got it at REI they will take it back no questions.”

“It's about as worthless as a tampon in Phylis Dillers purse. How's that?

ROFLMFAO”

“I got the Insulmat which is simular to the Big A and have had no problems. Knock on wood. I love my mat.”

“how about this one?

its about as pointless as bikini waxing before going to a nude beach”

“That's good CB, but we all like to know that if the landscaping is nice, then most likely the house is clean inside. But I do like your analogy.

I didn't get that pad at REI, but my wife's came from there. She's had it out 4 times and hers performs well. I did just email them explaining the problem, that it is definetly not a tear, puncture or rip. It seeps slowly through the ripstop fabric. Smaller than a pin prick in several places. I checked it out under my pocket magnifying lens and the fabric is as good as new. Even with soapy water, it was hard to detect. I had to let it sit a few minutes to watch it start foaming.

So if anyone else has this problem, don't go pulling your hair out, you're not going crazy...it is loosing air.”

“I have the Insul-Mat. It's been out four times. Knock on wood, been great.

P.S. Great analogies. Seacrest sucks. Refer to comments on "American Idol" thread by yours truly. LOL!”

“poopin cherries in a big agnes tent...how dissappointing.”

“Wow! MAybe they've gone too far in weight reduction. I've got a 15 yr old Thermarest thats still going strong. Never had any holes or leaks. Since its a 'shorty', I use a blue closed-cell foam pad below it. My sleeping set-up is a little heavy, but very comfy after a long day on the trail.”

“here's what you do. go to a gear store you don't like. buy the exact pad you have. take it home and put the wrapping on your old pad. return the pad the following day.”

“did i say that?”

“I was about to buy one of these. Thanks for the heads up. I think I'll look at insul mat now.”

“Yup, what dayhiker said. Was a toss up between the BA and the IM. Insulmat it is. Now, what model IM?”

“Ruby - I read about both the insulated and non insulated version. There is only a 5 oz difference in weight. The non insulated one costs about $35 and the insulated one is about $55. The more expensive one is roughly the cost of the non-insulated BA, so I was going to go ahead and get the insulated version since I was willing to pay that much on the BA.”

“Ruby - check out the kids trip on 5/21. It's looking like it's turned into the Asheville, NC area. Pretty long haul, I know.”

“Ouch, from South Bend, IN it's 9.5 hrs.”

“Ouch, that is probably too far. Plus I live 1.5 hours west of South Bend. But thanks for the invititation.

I had been looking at one of the insulated versions as well. I think I'm going to go for the thickest one -- I think there's a 1" and a 1.5" -- even though it's heavier. I'm tired of tossing and turning. Then I'm going to get a good down bag, either Feathered Friends or Western Mountaineering.”

“dayhiker, I hope my being too far east isn't putting too much of a constriction on your trip location”

“Ruby - these pads are more like 2.5" thick.

hyway - not at all. He loves playing in the creeks at the Smokies and this should be similar. It'll be about 5 hrs for us.”

“Cool, he can pick up a few southern sixers while he is there too. I think the elevation gain from the parking area at Black Balsom (just a mile or so from the graveyard fields parking area) is maybe 300'. another sixer is a 2 mile round trip.”

“Lorax,
Do you remember when I said that I thought my pad was loosing air faster than yours? I was excited because I figured I would be able to find the problem easier. You now know what I was talking about. Those holes are very small, and they are not caused my something puncturing the pad. I believe that they are flaws in the material. I haven't tried to patch mine yet, because I know it is a pain. I have also been toying with the idea of returning it to REI, or even sending it directly to BA. I will let you know what I decide. Nine holes wow...”

“OK, another thought on this. Perhaps Big Agnes got a bad batch of material??? Or maybe some new manufacturer took over making the material.

At one point I did ads for a local guy making diaphragm turkey calls that fit outside your mouth. In his "real life," he made dentures. At some point, a different, third-party supplier started providing the material for the denture-like material. He sold a whole bunch that cracked because the material had changed. While he hated to know, he wanted to know just how widespread a problem it was.

You should contact them and let them know.”

“I contacted BA after someone told me that the right thing to do by any other hiker was to at least let them know of any problems. I did and got a reply within 24 hours. Very impressive. There was no talk about rectifying the situation, and I'm not someone who goes looking for anything for free, but I did take the time to tell them the specifics and supply them with the info they needed. They said they like to keep track of problems and asked me some stuff on when and where it was bought.

They have a lot of fans and customers to keep happy and it looks like they take that role seriously. I think that's pretty cool.”

“so they listened to your problem with their product but didn't offer you a a new one in exchange. Sorry but they should have told you to send in the one you have and after they checked it they would send you a new one.

I have a Kelty Zen tent which is no longer made. One of the tent poles bent and I contacted them to get a new one. They told ne to send the old pole in. They would check it out as to why it bent and send me a new one if determined defected. I got a new pole within 2 weeks. The tent was 3 yrs old when it happened. That is customer service when they replace a part 3 yrs old.

Makes me glad I bought the insul mat today.”

“I don't think you'd really be looking to get something for free if you expected them to replace it.

About the only way to rationalize what some of these companies charge for gear is the expectation that they will stand behind their product.

15 outings where you treated it like glass is not exactly getting your money's worth.”

“I can't believe they didn't offer to replace the pad! I think I would've suggested it to the customer service rep. They charge enough for their equipment that they should investigate the problem and at least consider replacing it.

Their manufacturing must have changed or something. I've had my BA air core pad for two years, have had it out in Lake Michigan, paddling around on it, thrown it on the ground and laid on it, had my little one jumping on it, the dog has walked on it and no leaks. I'm sorry you guys have had so many problems. I feel bad for recommending them. =(”

“You'e got a good case for replacement I think. If you had ripped or punctured it through misuse then maybe not. But using it in the way it's intended to be used less than 20 times and you get a problem then I'd ask for a replacement.”

“What a bummer, I would hope BA would stand by their gear. Its a shame to hear they didnt offer a replacement. Mine is going strong still but.....”

“its Sass's fault ;)


for those of you who have this mat already. Will it work/fit in the thermarest chair kit?
last edited: 4/26/05 7:59:29 AM”

“They didn't offer yet, but the fact that they got back to me so quickly and said they would be in touch makes me believe that they will at least address the situation in some form.

I'll keep everyone informed on thier customer service.”

“Yup. Mine sucks too. Flat by morning! And that was by the third use.”

“I emailed Big Agnes the link to this and the other thread about their pad on backpacker.com:
http://forums.backpacker.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1037133󽍍

...figured they should know what folks are saying...many read these threads even if they don't post..I know, I lurked for over a year before I began posting..we'll see what they do..I got a reply almost immediately and it wasn't a form letter..that, itself, impressed me..I haven't decided against their pads quite yet although it seems to me there have been an awful lot of failures..I'm still using my +10 year old Thermarest...lucky for me, there are lots of trees and few cacti in Wisconsin hammock hammock,hammock”

“I had a thermarest go flat on the first trip.

I put the pad under water to find the hole. It was very small from a briar. I put some McNett seam grip on the spot. Just made a circle with my finger, no patch.

That was four years ago. No leaks since.”

“Hi to all of you commenting on the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core. Believe it or not we love all comments, it's great information to help us to build the best gear out there and we truly do produce innovative dependable gear. At Big Agnes all of our products are 100% guaranteed. Our warranty is 100% repair, replacement or refund. It has been that way from the day we opened our doors. We have so many happy customers with the Air Core style pads that we were surprised to see such an unhappy customer. In the very early development of the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pads we had an inconsistent coating on the fabric of a small run of pads. We thought we caught most of them before they were in the field but apparently a few are still out there. Any of you that have a pad that goes soft, please send it back for a replacement. We test 100% of the pads by putting 200lbs of weight on each pad for 48hrs before they ever leave the factory. It's a pretty wild sight to see hundreds of pads go through the process. Although we are a small company based in the mountains of Colorado we have created a loyal following far from home. We'd like all of you to have great experiences in the outdoors while using our gear. Thanks for listening. Please feel free to contact me directly at Big Agnes at Bill@bigagnes.com
Bill Gamber co-founder and chief bottle washer”

“Thanks for posting. I just purchased mine two months ago and though I have had no problems yet I was worried after reading this thread. Good to know that the problem was detected and corrected long before I bought mine.”

“cherry popped by Mr Big Agnes himself!!!!

hahaha...it pays to be a wizenheimer.

what a world.”

“stikmon, I got an email myself from Mr Big. Nice that he is emailing people to let them know he appreciates their thoughts.”

“well then, I am in good company and we're all [i]special[i]”

“Ewker... well, I can tell you the Insul-Mat will fit in a Thermarest chair kit. FWIW, I have the wide chair kit. Can't remember if that would make a difference, but all you have to do is measure width, duh. Yeah, the Insul-Mat fits a little different due to the mummy shape, but you can definitely work with it. I did have to double it back under, too. No problem for added comfort behind, lol!”

“thanks lizs,

stikmon were all special =)”

“I used mine in the thermarest chair kit. It only needs a couple of breaths of air to fill it enough to sit on it.”

“Yup. I got a personalized email too. Very nice.

Thanks MHH! :)”