The Power of Prayer

“Actually it's "you're", but we get what you're saying.”

“Whenever this type of thread comes up, you can count on the elect to point out that while there are countless interpretations of scripture, there's only one correct way, and it's theirs.”

“Violin - Please show us where you interpret a specific verse to say "praying will cause God to change His mind."”

“actually, "youre" is an accepted internet shorthand, whereas as "mute/moot is a gross mis-spelling”

“The thing that cracks me up about the peeps that constantly try to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of God is that they totally miss the point.

Religion is faith based. If there is a God then He wouldnt allow for science to prove his existence, it would kindof defeat the purpose no? Therefore no matter what kind of scientific data is paraded out to disprove the existence of God, it will have zero effect on the faith of those who truly believe in their religion.

So all of the scientific efforts are only for the benefit of people who have already convinced themselves that God doesnt exist. I dunno, I guess it makes you all feel better or something.”

“Accepted by whom? Idiots? If you want to get technical with internet acceptance, it's considered rude to correct other's spelling because poor grammar and spelling is very common on internet discussion boards. It's actually a form of trolling according to wikipedia.

wikipedia: (troll) insulting people for bad grammar, which can be a highly sensitive topic; obvious overuse of bad grammar, or AIM-speak; or even insulting people for bad grammar while employing bad grammar, for an "ironic" effect that can often call people to call them out on their hypocrisy
last edited: 7/18/05 5:10:45 PM”

“actually, it is logically impossible to prove that god does not exist. you cannot prove a negative. logic 101

however, the existence of God/gods/George Burns has not been proven, either, so scientists naturally refuse to take him/it/she/Jim Carrey seriously, and they have to go about business as if he does not”

“ It's actually a form of trolling

dag. you got me :-P”

“I certainly appreciated the fact that people prayed for me when things looked grim.

There is a theological debate amongst Christians and people of other religions as to whether you can petition God with prayer. My grandfather was devout, and devoted his life to ministry but asserted that "God is not my cosmic bellboy."

But, I should add that people who consider themselves to be devout Christians have come out with studies trumpeting the claim that prayer does change medical outcomes and demanding that the medical establishment stop ignoring the evidence.”

“actually, it is logically impossible to prove that god does not exist. you cannot prove a negative. logic 101 c!b!

Crash, so you think it's impossible to prove that 1 does not equal 2?

You think it's impossible to prove that you did not grow up in the 17th century?”

“pedxing - Could you reference one of those studies please?”

“whats your'e (sic) thesis, sarge?”

“btw, does anybody know the origin of "sic"? its latin, im sure. ill have to look it up”

“stupid double posting
last edited: 7/18/05 5:26:20 PM”

“You're supposed to use it when somebody else screws up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic”

““Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health."

And there are a zillion scientific studies that point to the contrary.

So... your point is ... what? That there are different studies that show diff results? OR... are you trying to persuade someone to your POV?

What IS your POV?

How about some commentary below your C&P?”

“yea, ped, didnt you know posting to a fuego thread requires annotation, footnotes, at least a masters degree, double spaced, with graphs and pie charts, and must be peer-reviewed AND reviewed by ebert and roper (with the obligatory two thumbs up) sheesh!”

“actually, i was looking for the linguistic history of "sic".”

“It's there. Latin for "thus".”

“is it bad to ask you all to say a pray for me to get a job?


*grin*”

“"thus"

hmmmmm

interesting

i always thought it was latin for "if im so smart, what am i doing quoting this dingleberry who cant even spell 'they're'?"”

“I think God does intervene when people are ill. I think the hard part to deal with is why and who he does it for. That part is baffling and I don't guess there is an answer for it. Why does the 70 year old live and the 8 year old die? You'll make youself crazy attempting to figure that out.”

“You think it's impossible to prove that you did not grow up in the 17th century?”

i might have. i could be an immortal vampire who was "turned" at the age of 35, and recently switched by the freemasons while i was in maine, while the corpse of the person who looked like me and mrs fecher gave birth to is rotting somewhere in the maine woods, picked apart by the bears and red squirrels”

“I believe God intervenes when people are ill too. God has intervened in all aspects of our lives. I just don't believe He decides their fate based on somebody's prayer.”

“didnt know there were freemasons in maine, didja?”

“i might have. i could be an immortal vampire who was "turned" at the age of 35, and recently switched by the freemasons while i was in maine, while the corpse of the person who looked like me and mrs fecher gave birth to is rotting somewhere in the maine woods, picked apart by the bears and red squirrels c!b!

Just as long as you don't say something stupid again like "you can't prove a negative".”

“you cant

of course, that means i cant prove that i cant prove a negative”

“and i see that youve thrown the first lob in a potential flamewar”

“You mean besides you correcting my spelling?”

“why would you even argue that point with me? you would only be helping the atheists. is it because you're so helpless to resist your addiction to arguing for arguing's sake, or do you have a point?”

“Who are you talking to crash and why do you ignore my questions?”

“I prayed the GWB would fall off his bike. :)”

“jeez, sounds like sarge is one of those "kool-aide" religious types, know what I mean?”

“im talking to you sarge. and im not ignoring your questions. if theres a burning question i may have missed, ask again”

“BB - You mean the kind that reads the Bible? Maybe you can act like a man and say what you mean.”

“BB - It sounds like you know nothing more than ad hominem attacks.

It's too bad, but typical.”

“I’ve really enjoyed reading your comments here Dayhiker. Especially the one about you and your wife praying with your children before bed. That is, well, precious.”

“In my faith we recite Tehillim or psalms along with regular heart to heart prayers. There are certain Tehillim for certain things like illness, emergencies, thanksgiving. It is a near commandment to say Tehillim in a time of distress. Many people say this is why Jesus said, “Father why has thou forsaken me?”. He was reciting Tehillim.

Prayer is as much for the loved ones of the sick as much as it is for the sick. It always calms me and makes the situation better for me at least. Every single thing we do in life has an effect on the world. Both physical and spiritual.”

“We have a pretty good routine. We alternate who bathes them and who cleans the kitchen. My sons routine is longer because he gets a longer book. One night someone cleans the kitchen and then handles my sons routine which will be book, prayers, potty, bed. The other one will bathe the kids, brush teeth, and the book, prayers, potty, and bed with my daughter. The alternating works great.”

“Also Nigal, the EMA warning thing was hilarious. Don't know if you read that story or not. You should have an email in the morning from me.”

““Also Nigal, the EMA warning thing was hilarious."

What's this? I didn't read anything.”

“It should be one of the first post if you have it set to "3 days" on here.”

“Here it is:

On a side note (I'll post this on kids say the dardest things too) My town is west of a munitions dump. They are currently one of about 4 places in the country where chemical munitions are being incinerated. Because of that our EMA warning sirens have voice capability. My inlaws were keeping the kids this weekend. They had a t-storm and my son really hates storms. He tells my father in law that in (insert our hometown) he hears heaven talk during thunderstorms. We finally figured out that when the voice comes over the loud speaker that he thinks God is warning him about the storm.””

“PS. The local EMA director spoke to our Kiwanis club at lunch. I told her that story and she totally fell out. She'd heard some good siren stories, but that took the cake.”

“Oh that EMA. I have a bad habit of when I hear or see an acronym of my mind flying off and trying to figure out what it is and missing everything around it. That was a great story. :)”

“Dayhiker, your evening routine sounds similar to ours, though we do it a touch different. Sass does the book reading (currently wrapping up one of the Little House on the Prairie books) and I do the prayers, my daughter recites them back to me. Lately she has been singing them back kinda like an opera, very cute. She loves to says prayers at dinner too.

I am grinnin from ear to ear about the EMA story and your son. Thats too friggin funny!

Prayer is an amazing thing. The great mystery is why are some prayers answered and others not... who knows. Its really not for me to even try to answer. The boss has a plan and will do and allow things to happen for a reason. I take great comfort in knowing that I dont have to have all (or any answers) of the answers. I am content to know that his will shall be done.

Some very intersting stuff on here.”

“Sarge one of the big studies was:

Cha KY, Wirth DP, Lobo RA. Does prayer influence the success of in vitro fertilization-embryo transfer? J Reprod Med. 2001;46:781-787.

It was written up many places, including the New York Times: Nagourney E. Study links prayer and pregnancy. New York Times, October 2, 2001.

This was a Christian oriented study.

Here is a Christian web site on prayerful healing:

http://www.christianhealingmin.org/effectiveness.htm

Here is another web site (seems more new-age than Christian) describes some studies: http://www.heall.com/healingnews/april/prayer.html”

“crash - That's not what God tells us.

He wants us to pray for one another. Jam 5:16
thats too general to answer concisely

We are to pray for wisdom. Jer 33:3

thats a good one i left out

We are to pray to Him for help. Psa 50:15

again, too general

We are to ask for God's forgiveness. (Lord's prayer)

if your faith insists that forgiveness be asked, then yes

We are to pray for others to be saved. Matt 9:37-38

if youre a christian, yes, if not, no. non-christians pray too. jews and muslims pray to god, but it is near blasphemous to them to suggest that jesus was god/gods son and that he is the Great Mediator between humanity and The Infinite

We are to pray for our needs. Phil. 4:6

that sounds too much like the cosmic bellboy thing

... and on it goes ...”
sarge
8:56:18 PM
4/25/05

youre assuming that i accept the bible as the be all/end all of Truth/Gods Word. i dont, nor do many others who read this message board, so it is pointless to quote scripture as if it is a given that if it says it in the bible, its true. while it may be true, its not a given. so i tried to answer from a spiritual, non-dogmatic viewpoint
last edited: 7/18/05 9:52:05 PM”

“btw, sarge, do you believe that your antagonistic approach is winning any converts?”

“Thanks pedxing. Take note of the sources. These are from churches whose only purpose is to focus on healing. These are not mainstream Christians. Most Christians would consider these cults/cultish. Like you said, one of the sources is new-age, not Christian. I'm sure you can find all kinds of cults out there who believe all sorts of things. Extremists aside, Christianity (and any Christian I know from many denominations) do not believe we can cause God to heal people.

crash - Only God converts people through the Holy Spirit. I don't have that ability, and I don't try. I'm just debating a point. Also, I never assumed you accepted anything from the Bible. I just told you want God says. I don't expect you to believe it. Also, why are you quoting me from 3 months ago?”