The Power of Prayer

“Europe - AP


Benedict Says He Prayed Not to Be Pope

Mon Apr 25, 7:48 AM ET Europe - AP


By DANIELA PETROFF, Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI said Monday that he had prayed to God during the conclave not to be elected pope but that "evidently this time He didn't listen to me."”

“Just because his wish wasn't granted does not mean he was not heard.”

“When I was back there in
seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord
with prayer
Petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the Lord with prayer
You cannot petition the Lord
with prayer”

“Geo, let's have a death pool for Rat-Zinger.”

“If God didn't grant his wish not to be pope, he'll probably live forever.”

“Ja, here ist der panzer pope! Chu vill do vat ve vant or ve vill finden vays to machen chu!”

“Spreak Engrish, Geo!!”

“V - you went to seminary?”

“That's from a Doors song.”

“Violin is a holey man.”

“I do know that V knows and believes more than he talks about here, so it wouldn't shock me if he did.”

“I find it ammusing when, every couple of years, there is a "scientific" study which measures the affect of prayers on healing. There is usually no correlation between prayer and healing rates.

What the scientists fail to understand is that prayer is not meant to cause God to do something. We are not going to change God's mind or our destiny by praying. What prayer does do is allow us to have a relationship with God. I look at it like this: God has a plan for us, and us wanting a relationship with Him is hopefully part of that plan. By praying, we are fulfilling that plan by demonstrating our want to be with Him.

The Bible says that if you pray in His name, He will answer your prayers. That isn't to presume that He will answer it the way you want. The point of it is that God has a perfect way for us, and if we pray following that "plan", our prayer will be answered. If we pray discounting that plan, that is, we pray only for our own wants, things will always turn out for His plan regardless.

Therefore, Geo's hidden agenda here with an ironic thread title really just demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the purpose of prayer.

We are to come to God with our "petitions". When Jesus asked God to "take this cup from me", He meant if it is God's will.

Thy will be done.”

“Actually, every few yeard Readers Digest seems to have an article on the fact that there IS a correlation. I think this months issue has something in it.

They usually lump prayer and meditation together. I imagine the argument is that the people that participate in those type of activities are likely to have less hypertension, bp, and other factors that will help in the healing process.”

“Hence the word "usually". And yes, if you include mediation that will skew the results.”

“The Church of the SubGenius

http://www.subgenius.com/pam1/pamphlet_p1.html”

“Sarge, my granfather (who was a Southern Methodist minister with a doctorate in divinity) would have agreed with you on the theology in your first two paragraphs. When he was 91 (or there abouts), someone was trying to get him to join in praying over a minor thing with his toes, and he said he refused to treat God as his "cosmic bellboy."
last edited: 4/25/05 2:58:53 PM”

“"What the scientists fail to understand is that prayer is not meant to cause God to do something"

alot of the people praying fail to understand that too.

really, only three things need to be said in prayer: lord, thank you. thy will be done. i love you.

"cosmic bellboy" heh”

“I like that, too.

But...

Hopefully God becomes a good friend. And he certainly has the power to help. Wouldn't it be foolish to not ask for help from a good friend who could help?

I think that prayer also helps me work through ideas. I sit in mass every week thinking about how I can help progressive Catholicism survive the dark ages. God helps to steel my resolve.”

“really, only three things need to be said in prayer: lord, thank you. thy will be done. i love you.

crash - That's not what God tells us.

He wants us to pray for one another. Jam 5:16
We are to pray for wisdom. Jer 33:3
We are to pray to Him for help. Psa 50:15
We are to ask for God's forgiveness. (Lord's prayer)
We are to pray for others to be saved. Matt 9:37-38
We are to pray for our needs. Phil. 4:6

... and on it goes ...”

“Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.

That's the finding of one of the largest scientific investigations of the power of prayer, published today in the British medical journal the Lancet. Scientists said it undoubtedly will renew debates over whether prayer has a measurable effect on illness and even whether it's a suitable subject of scientific inquiry.

Researchers at Duke University recruited nearly 750 people undergoing heart-related procedures. Religious groups of different denominations were randomly assigned to pray for the health of half the volunteers; the other half received no organized prayers.

The prayers by representatives of Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist faiths had no effect on whether patients experienced postprocedure complications, such as heart attack, death or readmission to the hospital.

continued...”

“Scientists said it undoubtedly will renew debates over whether prayer has a measurable effect on illness and even whether it's a suitable subject of scientific inquiry.

Suitable subject??????????

Right next to "spontaneous combustion"?”

“Guys like Violin cant live with the notion that they believe that prayer is for the birds and just leave it at that. They need to constantly reaffirm that it doesnt work by seeking and showing "proof". What you dont get Violin is that those who do believe in prayer dont care what your or anyone's research concludes, we have our own experiences to draw on and no amount of research documentation can change personal experience.”

“The Babel Fish is proof that God can't exist.”

“aaahhh....what c bat said....concise and direct to the point!

Nicely done chap.....”

“no amount of research documentation can change personal delusion

Fixed that for you, c bat
last edited: 7/18/05 4:18:28 PM”

“i dont believe that prayer can change the external things, like save that person or gimme 20 dollars. what prayer is good for is internal change, like the strength and courage to do the right thing, inner peace, things like that. whether or not that internal change comes from meditating and turning inward, or from some sublime connection with a metaphysical "other", cannot be answered in this life”

“Maybe V is pointing out that you can get research money for any assinine project one can dream up?”

“i prayed that muttley would fix the italics, and it worked
last edited: 7/18/05 4:19:44 PM”

“lol”

“Studies almost identical to this come out about once a year it seems.

What they are missing is that God doesn't tell us to pray so that we can change His mind or cause Him to do something. That's not the point of prayer. When I pray for somebody ill, it's not because I think I'll make God do something, like make somebody better. It for the following (biblical) reasons:

1. God tells us to because He wants a relationship with us.

2. God tells us to come to Him in times of need. This is called a prayer of "supplication".

3. We are to put our Faith in God. My prayer is that "His will be done." Not mine.

Whenever I see this come up it reminds me that those who do not know God do not understand the basics of what being a Christian is.”

“i agree with sarge's post. the problem is, not only do most non-christians mis-understand the point of prayer, but so do many christians.”

“I know many Christians from many denominations, and nobody has ever demonstrated that they thought they could change God's mind through prayer crash bang. I don't know why you would say such a thing. Anybody who even does a cursory reading of the Bible on a semi-regular basis would know that that's not what pray is about. Maybe you focus too much on extremist whack-os and not enough on the main body of Christians.”

“but v is also right in that no amount of praying is going to get god to change the laws of the universe just for you. there are almost 6 billion people on this planet. why does everyone think the world revolves around them? millions of kids are starving in africa, hes supposed to take time to fix your ingrown toenail? shut up. if i was god, i would resent ppl coming to me and wanting what amounts to favors when youre talking on a cosmic scale, but no one wants to just sit and talk”

“its not the extremists. its the mainstreamers. maybe the christians in indiana are extremists and they seem like the mainstream to me
last edited: 7/18/05 4:39:53 PM”

“I think most Christians do understand the point of prayer CB, some dont I agree. Those that dont are often those that tend to fall away from faith when something or someone that they prayed hard for didnt get better, and they feel betrayed and become bitter. All because they misunderstood their relationship with God from the start. Sarge just does a fine job articulating what prayer means to most who follow any brand of faith.”

“i said the same thing 4 posts before he did. dont i get a "fine job for articulating" gold star too?”

“CB - your first post sums up how I feel. I wonder if the people in the study that were prayed for, knew if they they were being prayed for? When my son was in the hospital this was of great comfort. I suspect you experienced this too recently, both while on your hike and with your dad. Prayer is internal. There are plenty of studies showing that people who pray also heal quicker and have less stress in their life.”

“There are plenty of studies showing that people who pray also heal quicker

Isn't the placebo effect great?”

“There are plenty of studies showing that people who pray also heal quicker and have less stress in their life

i wouldnt argue with that, but notice that they prayed and not someone prayed for them. praying/meditating of course has a calming effect on the body, and helps the mind think clearer. praying for someone else wont have an effect on the other person tangibly, but it might help you put things into perspective or be at peace with circumstances”

“well, mutt, it may or may not be a placebo effect, but if it works, why knock it?”

“This reminds me of the Jim Carey movie where he is God for a while. He turns his computer on and about 3,000,000 prayers come in and he freaks. He finally says yes to everything and the city he lives in falls apart.

Also, good point on the starving folks versus toe nail issues. I'm trying to instill this in my kids now. My wife and I alternate who does which kids bedtime routine. One night I get the daughter the next the son. During bed time prayers I always try to do a "...help the sick boys and girls, help the hungry boys and girls, help me help the sick boys and girls, ...."

On a side note (I'll post this on kids say the dardest things too) My town is west of a munitions dump. They are currently one of about 4 places in the country where chemical munitions are being incinerated. Because of that our EMA warning sirens have voice capability. My inlaws were keeping the kids this weekend. They had a t-storm and my son really hates storms. He tells my father in law that in (insert our hometown) he hears heaven talk during thunderstorms. We finally figured out that when the voice comes over the loud speaker that he thinks God is warning him about the storm.”

“Why knock it? I'm just bored.”

“CB - that's the point I was after.

Placebo is a real effect. "Ed" had an episode on this that was pretty good.”

“to continue from 2 posts ago, it is also nice to hear that people are praying for you, even if you dont fully believe in it. who knows, maybe if enough people send enough good vibes thru whatever(superstrings, cosmic jelly, the godosphere), maybe a person can feel better”

“well, then more power to ya, mutt

knock on! at the very least, itll make for an interesting evening of fuego”

“Bottom line: The point of this "research" is mute.

It's like doing research that proves that there is no correlation between crying when loved ones die, and the rate at which they come back to life. You can cry all you want to, they're still going to be dead. So is crying worthless?”

“CB - you might enjoy the CS Lewis book "Mere Christianity" It deals a good bit with belief and unbelief. Lewis was an aetheist at one point in his life. I enjoyed the book and it's probably time for another go at it. It answered some issues I had in spite of growing up in church.”

“"Those that dont are often those that tend to fall away from faith when something or someone that they prayed hard for didnt get better, and they feel betrayed and become bitter"

exactly right. and just the opposite is also true. those who find faith because something wonderful happened, like someone was miraculously healed or they found their long-lost brother that they prayed for are also believing for the wrong reasons. thats why its dangerous to pray for medical healing, money to pay the rent, etc”

“actually, its "moot", but we get what youre saying.”

“Crying for someone who is dead and preparing to undergo a trip to eternity appears to have no effect on the patient's reanimation.

That's the finding of one of the largest scientific investigations of the power of crying, published today in the British medical journal the Lancet. Scientists said it undoubtedly will renew debates over whether crying has a measurable effect on bringing people back to life and even whether it's a suitable subject of scientific inquiry.

Researchers at Duke University recruited nearly 750 people who had just died from heart-related procedures. Religious groups of different denominations were randomly assigned to cry to bring back to life half the volunteers; the other half received no organized crying.

The crying by representatives of Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist faiths had no effect on whether patients experienced postmortum reversal, such as living, breathing or spooking the entire hospital staff.
last edited: 7/18/05 5:03:46 PM”