Fuel efficiency

“Which stoves have the best fuel efficiency? Alcohol, or fuel bottle type stoves?”

“Dunno, but I love my MSR Whisperlite - mostly because I'm a Canuck and it works in winter.”

“Gasoline produces about twice the heat as the equivalent amount of alcohol.

For long trips and very cold trips Gas will be lighter.
For a weekender in 3 season, alcohol is much more convenient, and more ecological friendly.”

“Man, I thought this was a car thread !!”

“for longer warm weather trips i believe the jetboil is up there, if not the best.”

“Man, I thought this was a car thread !!”
Crazypace
9:18:27 AM
5/03/05

ME TOO!!!”

“Manuka is right the energy density of white gas is much higher than alcohol. If all you want for a short trip is hot water use a cheap, light alcohol stove. If you need high altitude, cold weather performance use white gas. For weeklong trips, compact design and ease of use go with a mini-canister. I've got the Optimus Nova that burns white gas, the Optimus Crux that burns mini-canister and three alcohol stoves that I have built. The stoves all have different purposes. If I were going to Africa, Asia etc. I would take the Optimus Nova because it burns any petro there is from gasoline to diesel. If I were going on an adventure race I would take the Optimus Crux because it is compact, lightweight, instantly hot and good for short term use. If I were going on a weekend hike and only wanted hot water for coffee and freeze dried food I might take one of my alcohol stoves. I never hiked with an alcohol stove but often make my morning coffee at home with one just for kicks.”

“How about if you were going for a 6 month long hike? What would you suggest?”

““How about if you were going for a 6 month long hike? What would you suggest?”
Spirit Coyote


Definitely a white gas stove with a spare parts kit and repair manual. Finding canisters could be difficult and alcohol might get expensive and hard to find. Gasoline and white gas fuel are everywhere.”

“People are hiking the AT right now, and have been for a couple of years, using alcohol stoves. While denatured alcohol may not always be available near the trail, HEET in the yellow bottle works as a good substitute, and this can usually be found at most gas stations. Of course, the AT is a special situation, given that it passes through so many towns.

Where are you thinking of hiking for 6 months, SC?”

“So alcohol is not very good at altitude?

I didn't know that.”

“Nothing burns well at altitude because of the reduced oxygen.

but white gas is so hot that a drop in efficiency still leaves plenty of BTU's.”

“It the environmental factors at altitude that would effect it. The reduced O2 is one the others are high winds and cold temperatures. If you were able to warm the alcohol up by body heat or in the sun and had a good windscreen you may be able to use the alcohol stove at altitude. I wouldn't use a canister either unless you can warm the canister before use. Fire burns on vapors and in order to get vapors you need vapor pressure greater than atmospheric pressure. To get that vapor pressure from alcohol from alcohol you need heat. A white gas stove is the best choice because you can pressure up the fuel for proper atomization. In controlled warm conditions the alcohol stove would probably perform just fine. In cold conditions getting something hot to drink and eat might mean your survival. You won't see anyone trecking up Everest with an acohol stove.”

“But - canister stoves are used at altitude, including Everest. They work because of the lower ambient pressure. Naphtha down below, but canistera up high.”

“The Gremlin Theory of Alcohol Consumption in Extreme Conditions

You see alcohol is dangerous in the cold because it dilates the arteries and the blood brings heat to the extremities by robbing it from the body core. Thus one feels warmer because the skin is warmer, but one is actually getting colder.

On the other hand robbing the core of some heat to heat the extremities can prevent frostbite.

It's a thin line, Gentlemen, a thin line.

(Sigh!) The world just isn't ready to recognise my genius.”

“Would somebody give that man a Nobel Prize?”

“You have to have the proper gas mix. If you have too much butane in a cold climate the propane will be burned off first leaving only the butane. The butane may not have the vapor pressure to exit the canister. In really cold climates use pure propane.
last edited: 5/03/05 2:31:44 PM”

“My brain's hurting again.”

““My brain's hurting again.”
Gremlin

Don't breath the vapors coming out of your stove! The CO and unburned fuel will give you a headache!

If you take your fuel canister to bed with you it will perform much better. If you burn off all the propane and still have unusable fuel left behind try warming it up to about 40-50 F with a non-sparking heat source. That will raise the temperature of the butane high enough for the vapor pressure to force it out of the canister. Once lit the flame should provide enough heat to keep the fuel in a gaseous state. Make sure to place the canister on a flat somewhat insulted surface. Placing it on snow will rob the heat and lower the vapor pressure. Partial canisters would best be used for summer car camping or really short hikes. In warm weather almost all the fuel wiii be used and waste reduced. Packing partial canisters on a long hike isn't worth the weight of packing out mulitple empty canisters. For 4 or 5 bucks you can get a brand new canister good for 1 to 2 hours of cook time.
last edited: 5/03/05 2:58:26 PM”

“I'll second the opinions given above, and add, the factors that tip the balance toward use of gas stoves are winter use, larger group size, melting snow, large pot of food, fast cooking time needed, simmering or sauteing of food, stir frying.

I have an MSR dragonfly, an MSR Pocket Rocket, and a Snow Peak stove, and each have their place. For fuel efficiency of gas stoves, the dragonfly is just amazing! It beats other white gas stoves hands down, even the venerable whisperlite. The only drawback to the dragonfly is its LOUD! And expensive.”

“The jetboil has been getting alomost twice the amount of liters boiled then most of my stoves. Just my 2 cents”

“The jetboil is a great design. It traps most all the heat and their is little wind disturbance. Lots of things will work. I have often seen the big green coleman propane tanks left behind even at timberline. I don't know who would pack that thing. I really don't care what they use, I just wish they would pack it back down.”

“Where are you thinking of hiking for 6 months, SC?”
bitpusher
10:38:39 AM
5/03/05
ignore this user

The PCT! :D Wish I could leave for it today :(

I have often seen the big green coleman propane tanks left behind even at timberline. I don't know who would pack that thing. I really don't care what they use, I just wish they would pack it back down.”
bateauxdriver
5:55:06 PM
5/03/05
ignore this user

I just know I am going to get flamed for this....

When I was a total newbie at backpacking I had a colman one burner stove and took along those big canisters. We hiked up into the sierras, camped a night, but in the morning when it was time to pick everything up and put it away the fuel canister wqs leaking. I had no idea what to do...so uh...we left it behind. Yeha I feel guilty and terrible about it still, especially now that i know better.... I confess.....
last edited: 5/04/05 7:06:19 AM”

“SC this is an order you hike right back up there and get that canister now! This is an order you must go hiking.

SC that is a situation where one may have to do just what you did. To put it in your pack would have been a bad idea. Even carrying it in your hand could have been a disaster. If you dropped it on a rock the steel canister could have sparked and boooommm no more Coyote!

I guess the only option is to leave it in a rocky area where it would not start a fire. The other option is to attach the stove to it, check for leaks and burn off the gas with the stove. Don't light the stove if it leaks. A little soapy water applied to the joint where the stove meets the canister would tell you if there is a leak.

Now for penance you must hike out 10 empty canisters that you find on the trail and your sin will be forgiven.”

“I have an optimus nova just for the fact that it is a multi fuel stove, really burns anything, but I burn white gas / naptha mostly. Easy to get where ever I am in the world and it is an all around stove, which has worked great from Norway to Iraq to where ever I go now”