Being the bad guy

“At 3:00 today I have to fire a guy who has been here almost 15 years. Why, his position (which I created just for him) is being eleminated do to lack of work. Sure, he can collect unemployment, but he's older (57) and I know it wont be easy for him to get new employment when it runs out. I like the guy, but he has more then outlived his usefullness to the company, he cant keep up physicaly or mentaly with the younger techs.
This is one reason I created the eaiser position for him in the first place. I feel sick to my stomach. I fired people before, but it was always because they screwed up or just plain sucked. This is different. Different emotions, I'm sad, not pissed off.
Its justified, but I dont feel justified.
Between now and 3:00 I dont even want to talk to anybody. I guess my poker face isnt all that good and people will know something is wrong.
Talk it up TT, I need to get through the day.”

“dood, that really friggin blows.

i hope i always stay in engineering and never "elevate" myself to management.”

“is there anything else he can do? When you reach that age it is extremely hard to find another company who wants to hire someone that age. Sad isn't it.

Sorry you have to be put in that position.”

“I had to fire an employee once...I dreaded it all day. Turned out much differently than I expected when she agreed her performance was lack luster. Remember 98% of what we worry about never happens!”

“That does bite. These are leaner, meaner highly competitive times - in another time or another place, things might be different. Sounds like you walked the extra mile in order to protect him for a while, not much more you can do. Chances are he knows, at some level, he's not pulling his weight and that the axe might fall - and that has got to bite. Hopefully he'll find a way to land on his feet.”

“Yeah that is tough. I wish you the best of luck.

That is the reason I decided to stay away from management positions. I could not fire/lay off someone.”

“You never know how thier gonna respond. I had a guy who was in his 30's break down and cry and beg me not to fire him, give him one more chance (after I gave him 4). Ofcourse his situation was alot different as in comming in late and hung over.
This one just kill's me for the reason he's older. lives alone, never married, kinda of a hermit like guy. So I'm worried. He had a bypass operation 2 years ago, he has a bad back, and take alot of med's (which cost alot of money).”

“What ped said. The guy must have seen the handwriting on the wall. I'm sure it doesn't help you much but he should have, and probably has, spent time considering his other options in anticipation of this happening.

Your compassion is admirable and healthy but don't allow yourself to feel responsible. You are not, and cannot be, responsible for him. He is responsible for himself.

He'll be ok.

So will you.”

“you said he has been there 15 yrs. Is that long enough for him to get his retirement from the company, assuming you have one setup.
Just asking since companies tend to let the ones go who are close to retirement.

Hoping that isn't the case.”

“There are no packages - He has a 401k, but too young to get SS.

One more thing, He is an avid Gun collector
as in he has one of everything. I hope he doesnt get depressed if you get my drift with this.”

“You should call the pansy tie wearing, vet driving weinie to see how his day is then come back here and make fun of him to ease your tensions”

“Hey, maybe he'll get a good lawyer, file an age discrimination suit (I'm not saying he has a case) and wind up not needing to work for the rest of his life. :)

It sucks to have to fire someone when you don't want to.”

“Well Crazypace, there is an alternative if you are willing. Yeah you have to lay him off, there is no getting around that.

Offer to help him find a new job. Check with friends and family you know, hit monster see whats out there. You might even be able to help him find something that he will enjoy better.”

“How does it feel, ya big meanie? My car has not been the same. It swerves all over the road and almost flipped over twice! Dents can do that, you know! Go ahead, put the poor guy out of work. You're nothing but a heartless Vette wrecker!”

“LOL at hyway. you did it, you made me laugh.

pepsi - that age thing is touchy, you never know. But if you cant do the job that everybody around is required to do and get paid to do. Its not fair to the other guys.”

“Hey, go back under your rock, ya spoiled, country club dwelling dweeb!”

“Sorry to hear you have to play the heavy, CP. Business decisions don't mix well with compassion sometimes, unfortunately. Hope you find some peace of mind amidst this craziness, somewhere along the line...
last edited: 5/05/05 10:25:07 AM”

“Guy with the vet - hey, He's the one that hit your car !!

ps: treebeard - You rule !!”

“You might mention that he could file for Social Security Disability, if his back and health conditions prevent him from being able to find or hold a job. I don't know how far he'll get with it, but it's worth a shot.”

“Sounds like he could sell off his gun collection and support himself for awhile. I hear terrorists are paying a pretty penny these days. : )”

“Thanks! And good luck to ya. There are some good suggestions in there, especially IJ's! :) I know that his age is definitely going to be a problem. If he's good at what he does, there may be someone who appreciates an experienced, hard worker and give him a break. Do you have any contacts in the biz that you could call on?
last edited: 5/05/05 10:27:48 AM”

“hey IJ, you need some money too

maybe you, scortch, and this guy can all get together.”

“Most of the other guys I talk to are in the same boat. Business is slow. Production and turning hours are what counts. No production = no job. That goes for me too. I cant be in the red each month and do nothing, or "MY" replacement will !”

“crazypace, are you firing or laying him off?

That can make a difference in whether or not he can get unemployment.

Some states won't allow you to draw unemployment if fired but no problems if layed off. Now I am baseing this off what happened to me many yrs ago so the rules are probably different now I guess”

“Official wording (per the lawyer guys)

position is being eliminated - yes he can collect for that.”

“Lack of work is a layoff...

I remember once as a teenager, just prior to leaving home for the first time, lying awake at night, fearfull of life ahead; what would I do? how would I live? and here I am, at age Fifty Two, healthy, happy (Relatively speaking), with the rest of my life spread out before me, wiser, and considerably more prepared to face the road ahead than I was back then...

Decisions will have to be made, changes too...but folks, there are 250 million plus people out there living, breathing and going about their daily lives...He will be okay, I have been pushed outside my comfort zone before, and so has he...he was looking for a job when he found this one...

Crazy, I commend you for having enough humanity in you to worry, and to care...but let it go sir...let it go...

A conversation comes to mind from my youth...in which a person (I don't remember him, just the words) said to me...If you make 20,000 dollars a year, that's what it takes you to live; If you make 200,000 dollars a year, THAT'S what it takes you to live....

And he was right.”

“good, it beats getting nothing”

“conversation comes to mind from my youth...in which a person (I don't remember him, just the words) said to me...If you make 20,000 dollars a year, that's what it takes you to live; If you make 200,000 dollars a year, THAT'S what it takes you to live....

And he was right.”
SuperTroll
11:50:18 AM
5/05/05


SuperTroll makes $200,000.00 a year ?? :-)
I wanna be your new hiking buddy !

ps: good advise”

“Your post is contradictory.
If he is "being eliminated
(sp) do to lack of work", that's one thing.
If he is being eleminated (sp) because "
he has more then outlived his usefullness (sp) to the company, he cant keep up physicaly (sp)or mentaly (sp) with the younger techs.", it's a different thing altogehter, and it sounds like age discrimination IMO.

You're in management and spell like that? Maybe he should have your job.
last edited: 5/05/05 11:27:39 AM”

“Spelling is very, very important on TT.
Thanks bud, please check my other posts, I dont want to be eliminated from TT.

Ps: I noticed you edited your post, did you spell something wrong?”

“Regarding spelling on TT, I normally look the other way, but when I see posts that are critical of the spelling of others, that is a different thing altogehter(sp). Such things cant(sp) be overlooked.

;)

Peace....”

“Crazypace our economy has went full circle and we are back to by necessity eliminating the weak. I have a very physical job as a chemical plant operator. We often have guys get hurt or worn out that have to retire or get put on disability. My particular unit had 4 outside techs 5 years ago now we have 3 on days and 2 on nights. The work load has actually increased since then. Our economy will be from this point forward one where we release the ones the wolves pull down. Our competition is a global one now. We compete with people that will risk life and limb just for their daily bread. With such desperate competition few companies will be able to afford to support the weak. It is not your fault, the employee is just a victim of circumstance. My advice to all of you out there, especially the young is to build your own safety net everyday. Stay out of debt and save for your security. No one can gurantee your security except for you. Hopefully tradegy doesn't strike, but if it does you have a better chance of survival.”

“Well said.”

“YO, CP, take some time for yourself today. Seriously, Firing someone is the hardest thing to do and your health can suffer for it. Take some time and go for a walk or something.”

“Crazypace, sorry that you had to do that task today, and sorry to the fella who lost his job.

We just lost a person with 16-17 years (granted it was different circumstances) but its never easy to see someone go.

As an aside it would be very tough to be in the position to either make or carry out such decisions. I would hate to lose my job these days, its tough in my trade lately...

I didnt read where he was fired for spelling, I will have to reread this...
last edited: 5/05/05 3:37:51 PM”

“So, crazypace, how did it go?”

“Sounds like you'll have a job opening after today. I would like to apply. Hire me quick and I'll even throw the bum out the door for you. (See Phil's Photo Page.)”

“CrazyPace...how did it go?...glad I'm not walking in your boots right now.

What Phad said...it's hard on your health. I suggest to take the day off tomorrow and give yourself a long weekend to hike.”

“hmmmm, crazypace hasn't posted and it is almost 5:00 where he is at. He did post right before 4:00 so maybe he got out before the guy went home and got his guns.











joking people”

“I did it at 4pm and he just walked out of my office now. He was mainly worried about the insurance because of his med's. It sucked.
We had a heart to heart, he does understand.
I hate this. It doesnt feel right to be able to control someones life in such a way. Management sucks. I need a drink.”

“yeah you do, maybe more than one. Hey you were only doing what you had to do.

he can be carried on the insurance for a while I think and then it goes to a Cobra plan which sucks. Again every state is different.”

“Yuck, that's a tough one. As for the drink, wait til tomorrow night. We'll tip a few around the campfire lantern.”

“Hey CP Have the Dude check out Lowes,Home Depot or Wally World. They are in their busy season. Flexible hours, Fairly decent pay and full bennies even for part timers. Good Luck..”

“I'd hate to be in that position, but I am sure you handled it well and I am sure the fellow appreciates your honesty, sincerity and kindness.”

“Ok, I had my wabo-rita (version of the margarita) and feel better. Packing for the old loggers hike. least I'll get away and have 1/2 a hike with the boys.”

“you should have kicked the quarterpanel of the first Vette you saw today.”

“I've had to do that too and its gotta be one of the worst tasks in the world.”

“Well, now its the "strange feeling" in the shop today. No one talks about it (when I'm around) people act different. I feel like the grim reaper, But I did by bagels for the boys this morning :-)”

“crazypace, they might be wondering who is next.
If everyone is safe in their jobs it might be good to let them know.

Bagels..WTF why not some good hot Krispy Kreme doughnuts.”

“LOL If you brought them Bagels they might feel like you are tring to fatten them up before the next kill! Nah J/k

When the Lay offs happened in my company we were the same way the next day, the only difference was we were all happy that they got rid of this person. We got tired of having to clean up the messes made by this person.

I think it is natural to have the uneasy feeling in the shop, you can probally expect it for up to 1 week.

Like Ewker said just ensure them that everyones job is safe for now and that will ease some of the tention. You might even want to hold a brief meeting to discuss what happened and why. Our Manager did that with us and it helped alot.”