Stove choices

““Esbits work great for boiling two cups of water.
Be ready for a black goo mess on the botton of your cookpot.
I just let the pot cool and the black goo hardens and can be scraped off with some grass.”


Even with my slobbish style of cooking (throw some Liptons in the food bag and go) I never need more than 2 cups of water. And if it’s Enertia meals? Fa’get’about’it! I can do two meals with one tab easy and a cup of coffee to boot. The black goo can be a bother but I use a GSI double boiler pot and just carry it in a 1 gallon zippy.”

“If you want a stove that is light, compact, boils FAST, and simmers check out the Brunton Crux.
Fits in the concave bottom of the fuel cannister. I'm on my 12th boil with a large cannister.
And it's fun to play with.”

“http://www.backcountry.com/store/BRU0032/Brunton-Crux-Foldable-Butane-Canister-Stove.html?CP=Affiliate

Now that's an interesting design.
$70 is kinda steep.”

“I’ve been having trouble with my Pocket Rocket lately. I don’t know if it’s got a clogged jet or if the stove isn’t seating on the canister right but it’s pissin’ me off! If this keeps up I’m gonna shltcan the MSR and get a Jetboil.”

“I've got two whisperlites, and a pocket rocket. Neither one of them ever leaves home. I use alcohol, and a homemade stove that cost me a grand total of about a buck. Lighter in weight, simpler to use, and no chance of it failing due to a clogged jet.”

“I really like my Brunton Crux. Ive only used the following pots on it(10 ounce and 28 ounce) and havent come close to spilling either. Use a small fuel cannister if youre boiling small amounts,or a larger cannister with wider bottom for extra stability. Its
up to you.

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=25014818&memberId=12500226”

“Everybody's got different opinions about stoves.

If you plan on camping in cold weather (or at altitude), you need to know that white gas performs dramatically better than isobutane canisters or alcohol.

There are so many stove options out there and they all have advantages and disadvantages. Many of us have more than one stove and bring different ones for different kinds of trips.

I've read really great things abotu that Jetboil system, it looks intriguing.
last edited: 5/24/05 8:53:21 AM”

“Someone mentioned melting snow. I wouldn't consider anything but white gas for those duties.

But... I always mention Pepsi can stoves because it really does cost you next to nothing to give one a try. It's not the perfect stove or the fanciest solution but like I said it's worth a shot and a fun way to kill an afternoon.”

“Buy Optimus or Primus (both owned by Brunton now). I like my Primus Alpine which weighs more (about 8 ozs.) than all the new stoves but it has great folding supports so you can use all sizes of pot or alum frying pan, a piezo start, fuel control knob that is easy to operate, the ability to simmer or blast, and a stand for the canister that keeps the whole assembly from dumping dinner in the mud. If I were buying a multifuel stove I'd go with the Optimus Nova or a Primus Hymalaya. These are expedition quality, four season stoves. You might not need this type of stove but if you do these are the types to get. All the rest is cheap plastic junk.”

“I will be posting pictures and plans for a varnish can stove, after I return home in July. I feel it is a great improvement over the soda can stove, which does work fine, also. For longer hauls, though, I am returning to my Sierra Zip Stove.”

“An old Bluet 206 puncture cartridge stove (which I have three spare canisters for!) and a brand new Primus Himalaya multifuel. Both are great. The Bluet has been 100% reliable and bullet proof. The only time it failed was when I tried to use it below freezing, not knowing that the Bluet fuel doesn't work below freezing. It continues to be completely reliable (if not neat or clean looking) after more than 15 years of use.

I have only used the Primus stove on one trip but so far so good.
last edited: 5/24/05 11:39:22 AM”

“One of the fun things about this modern backpacking is the stuff you get to buy. Very few people use the same gear, but we all have fun talking about the good gear we got. Makes for lively conversation and every now and then somebody takes the info to heart and buys more stuff. It's a win win proposition.”

“squirrel - Maybe I'll just buy all of it and try each one. LOL - I wish!

Brunton owners: It looks like they'd fall over. Do you require a stand??
last edited: 5/24/05 11:54:00 AM”

“yeah I know. So much stuff to buy, so little money.. I am looking at down bags right now.... I'll have to bite that bullet after graduation I think. Then trekking poles and all of the yuppie hiker comments I'll be taking for that. It never ends.”

“I have a Bluett using the puncture canisters also. I also have about 3 or 4 cartridges left.

When I hiked in New Zealand about 2 years ago they still had the canisters available, but they also had orange canisters with a cold weather fuel mix available.”

“I own a Primus Himalaya multifuel too. Thing weighs over a pound but is bombproof. Hell the weight alone would crush one of those fag Pepsi can "stoves" or a SnowPeak. No cheezy plastic pump on it either. It's all metal and meant for serious outdoor chefs.
last edited: 5/24/05 12:06:53 PM”

“I just got a Snow Peak GigaPower and absolutely love it. I may never use my old Whisperlite again...no contest.”

“According to http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/static/materials/61/density.htm, one fluid ounce (floz) of 100% ethyl alcohol (ethanol, 200 proof) weighs 0.82 ounces (oz) (probably at 20 °Celcius and sea level).

http://www.cyberlaboratory.com/library/basicsofdensity/whatisdensity.htm has a fairly good explanation of density and its dependence on temperature. (Just skip over the specific gravity stuff.) At the bottom is a table of density values for different concentrations of ethanol (in water). For example, 70% ethanol (140 proof) has a density of 0.8676 g/cm^3.

What you have is a volume (fluid ounces) that you want to convert to a weight (ounces). You use the density to convert the volume to a mass (can also work in reverse). The mass can then be converted to a weight.

Converting mass to weight depends on altitude: http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node25.html. The mass of the alcohol never changes, but it weighs more or less depending on the altitude. At sea level, 0.454 kilogram (kg) weighs 1 pound (lb).

Now we just need a few more conversion factors (from http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/appenB.html):
1 U.S. fluid ounce (floz) = 29.57353 mL
1 mL = 1 cm^3
1 ounce (avoirdupois) (oz) = 28.34952 g
(we'll use this oz -> g instead of the lb -> kg given above)

For 100% ethanol,
1 floz * (29.57353 mL/1 floz) * (1 cm^3/1 mL) * (0.789 g/cm^3) * (1 oz/28.34952 g) = 0.823 oz
This agrees with the first site I referenced, and it should since I used the density it reported.

For 70% ethanol,
1 floz * (29.57353 mL/1 floz) * (1 cm^3/1 mL) * (0.8676 g/cm^3) * (1 oz/28.34952 g) = 0.9051 oz
This makes sense because water is more dense (1 g/cm^3 at 3.98 °C) than ethanol.

Note that both calculations use factors that depend on temperature (20 °C) and altitude (sea level).

Now, the reality is that for a few fluid ounces, you're probably not going to notice the very slight changes in weight as the temperature and altitude change (even you ultralight hikers). :) You'll just need to take into consideration the concentration of ethanol you're using. Using the factors computed above, 10 fluid ounces of 100% ethanol weighs about 8.2 ounces, and 10 fluid ounces of 70% ethanol weights about 9.1 ounces.

Using the same concepts and looking up different conversion factors you can arrive at the familiar: 1 U.S. gallon water = 8.3 pounds.”

“Thanks think, it almost looks like all those numbers hurt. It also seems like an extended trip with the alcohol stove would weigh more than with certain conventional stoves.”

“The rule of thumb I've read before is you need to forget the alcohol stove if you can't refuel around the 4th day. AT hikers love 'em because refueling stops are almost always under that limit the whole way. Two weeks in the Alaskan wilderness and you need something else.”

“tech, I would put that figure more at six days.

A 12 fl oz yellow bottle of Heet will be plenty of alcohol for 12 hot meals. Most AT hikers do not heat a meal at lunch so a single bottle will be good for 6 days.”

“Main reason I am moving away from canister and using only white gas or Alcohol. You know how many half used cannisters I have? Use one for a weekend and only have enough fuel to do a couple of meals... so instead of taking the half used one I'll grab another full one. Not being able to tell when you're running low on fuel without a scale bites big time.”

“DDX - And you call yourself a lightweight! ;-)
No selfrespecting ultralighter would be without a digital scale. ;-)

One way to tell how much fuel is left in a canister is to float it in water and mark the waterline. Do a full one and then an empty one to tell about how much fuel is left.”

“nice tip!”

“I guess we need the weight of an ounce of white gas (and other fuels) to see where the break-even point is. So far using the info already given, 12 oz alcohol = 9.8 oz. of weight for 6 day's fuel.

Anyone have the weights for the other fuels, plus the amounts of fuel needed to boil 2 cups of water?”

“Nice tip stovie.. Thanks!”

“i believe they say that a jetboil it's .25 oz fuel per 2 cups water boiled

might be wrong.
last edited: 5/24/05 1:52:22 PM”

“Thank You.
Thank You very much.
StoveStomper has left the building........

I can't claim that tip as my own. I read it somewhere ages ago. LOL”

“Never believe manufacturer's claims, sacco.”

“I've done a LOT of alcohol stove testing and no matter what design is used, it takes about 0.6 to 0.8 fl oz of alcohol to bring 2 cups of 40 degree water to a boil.

With my little mini 'pepsi' stove made from the little juice cans, I use about 3/4 fl oz to boil 2 cups to a hard rolling boil.”

“don't remember if that's a mfgs claim or not.

backpackinglight did a big writeup last yr and compared weights per day of tons of stoves.

they did a real nice, detailed job. too bad my subscription ran out and i can't access the article anymore.”

“All I can say is C!B!/2scoops did the AT last year with one of 'my' alcohol stoves. ;-)”

“http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/ss/Cooking%20and%20Stoves/index.html


anybody else a member?”

“sacco, that's only for nerds that can't make their own. ;-)”

“Stovie, when I do the AT, I will use one of your stoves.”

“sb, have I given you one of my stoves????
I don't sell them.
last edited: 5/24/05 2:16:14 PM”

“sb - Use c!b!s so it can make the journey twice.”

“hey i'm no official stomper of stoves, but i've made a couple dozen myself.

backpackinglight has really good, very detailed, unbiased reviews and comparisons of gear.

i shoulda saved all those .pdfs while i had a subscription”

“That would be way cool, I could SOBO so it will see the sights from a different perspective.”

“Well no, Stovie, but I won't be going on that trip for a while and hopefully by then I will have one bestowed upon me. If I am found worthy of course.”

“backpackinglight has really good, very detailed, unbiased reviews and comparisons of gear.

True Da!

One of these days I'm going to sign up. I've been getting there free email newsletter ever since they started.
It's mostly an ad to get you to pay but they give some great info away free.”

““Well no, Stovie, but I won't be going on that trip for a while and hopefully by then I will have one bestowed upon me. If I am found worthy of course.”
squirrelbait
2:23:01 PM
5/24/05


LOL!!!!!
What a suckup! ;-)
But it works sometime.
I'll put you on the 'list'.
You have about 5 people ahead of you and I haven't made a stove in months and months.
Got to be in a stovemaking mood. Will prob be this fall before I make more.”

“Maybe you've lost the 'touch' by now!?”

“Nawww Sarge, just about anyone could make one if they would try.
There are a few on TT that would probably slice off something important, so I have mainly offered my stoves to them.
lizs and Mapes are examples. ;-)”

“i think sarge is trying to goad SS into making him one LOL”

“That would require "sucking up"! I don't think that qualifies!”

“nah, goading is an opposite means to the same end (vs. sucking up)”

“LOL
Sarge strikes me as someone that could easily make their own.

pedx is first on the list. He traded some stuff for one.
I'm waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy overdue on his.

lizs keeps destroying hers, in really creative ways, but she seemed to really appreciate the stove, so I'll make her another, some time.

C!B!/2Scoops is an English major. Need I say more? ;-)
last edited: 5/24/05 2:53:22 PM”

“if'n it was me i'd ask for liz to return atleast 51% of the damaged goods.

never know, she could be making a profit of you.

standard return policy procedure.”

“LOL
bitpusher claimed he saw the one I gave to Mapleleaf on eBay.”