Extreme Home makeover: But will it stay nice?

“Sunday night for the first time ever I saw "Extreme Home Makeover." Jessica Lynch -- yes, that one, who survived being captured in war -- nominated the Piestewa family for a home.

Lori Piestewa was believed to be the first Native American woman killed during combat in Operation Iraqui Freedom. Lori's parents and two children survive on a reservation in Az. They were living in a small, old mobile home.

EHM came in. First they made a Veteran's Memorial Center on the Navajo reservation. Now that's cool. I recall seeing a documentary on the code talkers (is that the term?) during WW II (is that the right war?). They spoke in their native language, a code which code not be broken by the enemy. It was interesting seeing these same Native Americans as old men, and hear their thoughts, and see their pride.

Then, on EHM, this totally extravagant home was created for the Piestewa family. I was wowed just looking at it. The family was of course thankful.

I'm always for the Native Americans, who I feel have been downtrodden by the emmigrant white people who came in, took so much away and rammed the white life down their throats.

BUT.... as I sat and looked at that house, I wondered, "How will it look in two years? Will it have windows broken and replaced by plywood? Will there be burned-out areas?"

I've seen the modular homes on the Pine Ridge reservation -- seemingly new homes but they look like they've been through a war zone, if anyone even still lives in them.

So I wonder about the Piestewa home. Will they keep up this wonderful memorial to their daughter? Or will it go the way of so many reservation homes?

Guess I've become cynical......... (and I must say, my thoughts surprise me)”

“I suspect that if most of the families on this show had the finances to adequatly maintain their current homes then they wouldn't be on there in the first place. So yes, I suspect in a number of years the home will start to run down. I don't regularly watch the show but have noticed that local contractors now throw in money as well as the home. I'm sure this is part of the reason. Good for them.”

“I ask that question about the houses they build in white suburbs, simply because they build them in 7 days! How much quality can really be in that house?”

“Same quality Smiley. The average house can be built in 7 days or less; it just costs more for labor.
That house is in Flagstaff; they couldn't build on the reservation becasue the family did not own the land.”

“Building the structure isn't the problem, it's the finishes. They must use some low shrinkage mud for the sheetrock. How do you build structure, then hang sheetrock, then mud sheetrock, sand, mud, sand, mud, sand, paint, and then paint again?”

“Very low humidity helps. ;)
They make low shrinkage quick dry mud. It's at Home Depot. It's more like a fine textured foam, really.”

“So just because they’re Indians the house will go to crap? I wouldn’t say you’re cynical. I’d say you’re a danm racist!
























Just kidding! LOL!

To be honest I never understood why being poor is synonymous with filth? I’ve seen news reports of local people having their houses condemned because their house was filled with dirty diapers, dog crap, roaches, and cats. Isn’t cleaning free?”

“Low shrink compound and force cure, whole lotta force cure. Unless they are using something like the urethane compounds like the auto body guys do.”

“That's one of the few shows my wife and I watch and I always wonder that myself.

In the past, they have shown follow-ups and the homes looked great, but who knows how much they picked camera angles that made it appear that way.

I'm sure most of the homes deteriorate to some extent. Like everybody's homes, they have to be maintained. I'm sure the kid isn't always going to want a lego room. LOL

It is nice they do those repairs though.

Maybe they'll do more specials on the follow-ups. That would be interesting.”

“You also have to keep in mind that EHM has made a large effort to build homes that are much more energy efficient and use higher quality materials than is used in your typical house.

Use the good stuff and it lasts longer.”

“I haven’t enjoyed this season as much. They seem to just push the emotional stuff too hard and they’ve gone over the top even for them. I think they should split the show. Split the team and help two families (hell even three or four) and build houses that aren’t $500,000 and see which team does better. If you gave Habitat for Humanity their annual budget they could change the landscape of a city. But then again, the Globe Trotters wouldn't show up to help in a pinch.”

“Has anyone seen the Extreme Makeover Wedding Edition? Good gawd! They get one woman and three catty gay guys to set up a wedding in a week. Talk about tears and claws!”

“on the way to the southwest adirondacks (my main stomping grounds) i pass through this small, poor, rural town.

there was this really crappy dilapidated (sp?) trailer that always had a dozen children hanging out.

well a couple years ago it burned down.

then the next few times i went by they were putting in a brand new one.

now over the last year the new one is already lookin almost as bad as the old did.

i wonder if this one will burn down soon too?”

“i think that's wonderful of EHM, BTW”

“I saw bill engval has a new show that's a take off of EHM where they go into a trailor park and redo someone's trailor.

http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,224268,00.html”

“I don't know about sheetrock mud, but the concretes that setup early (called high/early due to fast strenght gain) generate lots of heat and wind up having more cracking than conventional concrete. With any bonus there is always a penalty. I wonder if the mud is more brittle or crack prone. I suspect it is. I'm not trying to derail the thread, but it's something I've wondered about with the show.”

“When I was in concrete (not literally) if we used the extra calcium and other agents for a quick set up we used fibrous additives that give a better adhesion. I remember back in ‘89 after the big quake in Cali they used some type of super concrete that allowed them to repour all the damage to the Golden Gate bridge in like 2 weeks.”

“Calcium is bad, bad stuff.

Chemicals can do all sorts of neat things in concrete. I've got a job where they're doing a pour per week and 3 pours per floor, so 3 wks per floor. They want to pull forms ASAP so they got to full strength in about 3 days instead of the normal 28.”

“when i was in school i remember in my reiforced concrete class they talked about adding volcanic ash.

i guess they've been wondering how come the concrete the romans used was stronger than anything we could make.

they finally figured it out pretty recently that the romans used to add volcanic ash as an extra fine agg.

i thought it was pretty cool we're just finally catching up with the romans of 2,000 years ago.”

“Two trailer park girls go
Round the outside...
Round the outside”

“You can have like 12-14 ksi concrete now. 3-4 is still typical though. 5-8 on a column is fairly common.”

“Will it stay nice ?

I know some people in upstate New York.
Habitat for Humanity fixed up a house in the neighborhood and gave it to a family.

Habitat requires the family buy the house for cost and provide no interest loans, but still that house is now the neighborhood eyesore.

It is not money, it is unmanaged property with stuff just dropped anywhere and left.

My take on this is that it is a second generation thing. Families that push their children in education to do better than the parents, do better. Parents that do not read to the children and make basic education a top priority are building future poverty.

If the parents take no pride in their home, what are the children learning ? People who were in hopeless situations but refused to accept hopelessness and were prepared leave everything they did have and move to where there was hope were the main immigrants to the US. But you have got to push yourself, no gift can do that for you.”

“Very true manuka”

“give a man a fish...”

“And parents think they're doing their kids favors by not requiring them to help out around the house, lol. They're teaching them to be incapable slobs!”

“I watched this one Megastructures on TLC about this weird building in Norway (I think) called the Torso. They had the platform on huge hydraulics and they’d spend a week pouring a whole floor, jack it up, pour the next floor, jack it up… Really cool stuff. The building was ugly as sin but it was cool.”

“It has been my experience that people do not value things given at no cost to them.
It's free, therefore throwaway.
If they didn't have to pay their own money for it, they didn't care for it.”

“That's not always the case SS. HPM and I sank a lot of money into our house and belongings. That still hasn't stopped from being near total slobs. ;P”

“we bought a house 2 years ago. not a total dump, but pretty much a fixer upper.

we've found that we can either keep it clean, stay up on the laundry, keep the lawn mowed, kitchen sink empty of dishes, ect, ect.

or we can make progress, renovate (built a polebarn, clearing pasture, gutting the whole house room by room, ect ect)

no time for both activities, so we go in 2 month cycles”

“LOL @ Treebait!

Since my house is up for sale, I'm realzing that I can actually keep it clean on a daily basis. It sucks to do that, but it can be done. I just don't get to watch my favorite shows as much, like EHM. ;)”

“Hey concrete nerds!! I have a concrete question. I am changing the floor to make it level and in one spot I have an area about 30 feet long, 2 feet wide and only about a half inch deep. What would you suggest I put in there that won't crack up and go bad. My email is slingerfelt@imation.com if you could send it there.”

“Mix dirt and water, pour, let stand 10 years. Any more questions? LOL!

Call a contractor.”

“NO!! I don't need no stinkin contractors!!!”

“squirrelbait you don't think a skim coat of cement would work.”

“Won't it break up? I thought a shallow coat of concrete would break up... I know how to wire a house, plumb a house and build a house, I don't do finish work, although that is changing and I know next to nothing about concrete. Any help is appreciated.”

“I don't like the shallow bit either. It almost seems like you need to make it a little deeper and then concrete and cement to the level you want.”

“If you chip it down at least a few inches and then drill small holes and place shirt pieces of rebar into the holes this will help the old concrete stick to the new.”

“I had heard about the hole drilling... Might have to do that.”

“i've heard that if you melt down a few guns and mix them into the concrete it adds mucho strength”

“No that wouldn't work for this application, besides, steel and concrete don't get along well and the steel would rust, discoloring the concrete and over time weakening the finished product. Thanks for the tip though.”

“well actually, steel and concrete get along very well, hence steel reinforced concrete.

ever see a sidewalk poured?”

“yes, but that steel rusts too”

“I suppose you could extrude a gun into rebar, but I don't have the equipment for it.”

“Use chicken mesh to strengthen the concrete.
Concrete sailboats (floating footpaths) are a steel frame cased in chickenmesh and then the concrete applied and they take a ton of abuse in the ocean.

Cut the mesh to fit joining it together with thin wire, Lay some concrete in the bottom, lay mesh on top and press down into wet cement, put rest of cement on top and trowel over.
When putting second layer on, make sure no air gaps.”

“I read in Fine Homebuilding magazine about a house that was built by a crew of 350 in 4 hours.”

“Prefabs are the way to go man! No wheels to pull out from under it or nothing. LOL! Actually I’ve heard from a guy in the business that prefabs are stronger than a regular house because they have to be built strong enough to be hauled to the sight.”

“When I worked construction my boss used to have teams go and build habitat for humanity houses and they could usually build one in three days. Contractors from around the metro area would send crews to get it built and they were good quality homes. When you have 50 people working on a house it can go up pretty fast.”

“Hell, that's nothin'. My people, the Amish, can raise a house in one day. Of course it tends to speed things up when you don't have to wait for the electrician to finish up.”

“Back in the office now.

Habitat - the point of Habitat is that the home owners have to help build the home. This builds a sense of ownership before they move in. A Habitat home is NOT free. They have a mortgage just like me, only at 0 interest.

Concrete - there are chemicals you can buy that will allow you to pour down to 1/2". You buy them by the gallon instead of the cubic yard. That should give a hint to their price. I wouldn't pour less than about 1.5" of concrete on new concrete. When you have to taper new into old, you generally have to grind a slot in so that you get that 1.5" minimum. You also need to put a bonding agent down to allow the two layers to act as one.

Hope that helps.

dayhiker, PE, SE, former Habitat Pres”