Supreme Court upholds fed ban on medical marijuana

“fingerlakeshiker - If killing and rape was made legal, the criminal elements would disappear--”

“I never did understand the whole "Let's do it in the middle of the street" attitude.”

“ummm sarge, i think there's a wee bit of difference between smoking a joint a murder.

and prosecutor- gassing up your car sends money to terrorists too.
if pot could be grown locally then we could eliminate people like your PAVON-REYES.”

“Prosecutor is a walking sound bite. A human commercial for the Bush adminstration. That said, are you aware of the ties terrorism has with the diamond industry? The example is isolated and hardly looks at the big picture here.

And Sarge! Give me a break on the murder analogy! Seriously!”

“sacco and Treebeard - It's irrelevant if they're the same "level" of crime or not. The point is anything that is legal will not have a criminal element.

Other examples:

bribary
petty theft
insurance fraud
public nudity
camping without a permit
etc. etc ...

So, give me a break on not accepting the analogy.
last edited: 6/08/05 8:15:40 AM”

“The point is elmentary then. It simply stands to reason and really doesn't need to be made to anyone with a fourth grade education or higher.”

“Well, apparently it does b/c fingerlakeshiker didn't know that. I realize most people understand this simple concept, but obviously not everyone does.

I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence Treebeard - it wasn't directed to people as gifted as you.

btw - sacco - check out the back to the gym thread”

“I'm not gifted, Sarge. But, thanks for the compliment. Just a good American....



...like yourself! :)”

“The states that already have a bill in place that allows marijuana as a medicinal medicine shouldn't be bothered. I can't imagine the public outrage that will happen when a cancer patient is arrested for smoking marijuana.”

“Ok, so drug use hurts no one. Let’s say a guy knows a 12 year old girl who wants to do some kiddy porn. She’s willing, he’s willing. Who’s the victim? No one gets hurt.”

“There's a bit of a morality difference in there, Nigal. And I wouldn't say that no one gets hurt. The potential for mental scarring in your analogy is quite a different scenario. Sorry, but once again, I think you are using the same dodge Sarge used with his comparison, except to a varying degree. Comparing apples and oranges simply strays fromt he issue...”

“BTW- this is not to argue with you; just to explain what my post was ment to do...

No Tree, the 12 year old girl is willing and is hurting no one else but herself. Just like a drug user suppossedly does. It is an example of moral relativity. If the lines of morality are blurred by society you never know where you stand. No one likes to even remotely admit they see anything in black and white because in today’s PC world that is viewed as narrow minded. I gladly and willingly admit I see the whole world in black and white. Every single day I am faced with it and I see it plainly.
last edited: 6/08/05 8:40:27 AM”

“There are tons of laws out there that tell miniors they can't do this or that. Just because you put in your example that she is willing doesn't add some credibility to what you are saying. It's a dodge, Nigal.

And laws CAN be changed, if the line of thought becomes of a more sensible nature, where it may not have been years ago. So, by labeling other acts that are against the law "victimless", doesn't necessitate the fact that there are other reasons this should remain illegal.
last edited: 6/08/05 8:51:18 AM”

“And there are tons of laws telling people they can't use, produce, or distribute drugs but we seem to be all for doing away with those. One person likes drugs. Some others like kiddy porn. No dodge. Just trying to get the cerebral fluids flowing and trying to find where the line is drawn? Who says what’s right and wrong? Can the lines of good and bad actually shift with time and be acceptable? Why would something that has always been bad suddenly be good?”

“Why would something that has always been bad suddenly be good?”
Nigal


Maybe it wasn't that bad all those years. Why doesn't the FDA finally label nicotine a drug and admit that they have been wrong all these years? From my experience, it is the only substance I ever got physically addicted to. And that was a monkey that was awful hard to get off my back. Yeah, the government can be wrong about these things. It really is possible!!!”

“Almost all the money for gasoline goes to good causes. Almost all the money for marijuana goes for corrupt and violent causes.

Because marijuana is harmful to one's health, job, studies, driving and life, it will always be banned.”

“Almost all the money for gasoline goes to good causes.


Really????”

“Exactly, nicotine is bad. So why is it legal? So if something that in and of itself is not that unhealthy that bad, how much worse does it seem to legalize drugs? We can’t say, “Well this is bad and it’s legal so we should make more bad stuff legal.”.

And just to keep this lighthearted I found a picture of you with your monkey on your back…


”

““Almost all the money for gasoline goes to good causes."

Ehhhh, I'm not so sure about this one. The Saudis give more money to terrorists than they did to the sunami victims.”

“Cute little tyke!


I know the legalization argument is extremely controversial, but there are merits to it. It really will take the black market element out of it. It has worked with alcohol and, with strict controls, could work with pot. Are kids going to have easier access to it? Realistically, no! I would say the black market has made it about as easy to get as possible. So, why not government control?

With taxation also, I may add.
last edited: 6/08/05 9:05:41 AM”

“A good comparison with marijuana is alcohol. I've worked night shifts in emergency rooms and seen how destructrive alcohol is. If making it illegal would eliminate the destructiveness, I would be for making alcohol illegal, despite the fact that I enjoy it a lot. Giving up the pleasure I take from it would be a small sacrifice compared to the benefit for society as a whole. This country tried making alcohol illegal, but it became more, not less destructive. What Prosecutor says about the money for marijuana was true for the alcohol business when it was illegal. That's been one of my main arguments with college students when I tell them not to even try pot.

Marijuana abuse, like alcohol abuse is destructive. Like alcohol use, their are marijuana users who do not harm themselves or their lives using it (of course, they do put their freedom at work and provide money for horrible people).

Many of the destructive effects of marijuana use could be reduced or eliminated if it was legal. It hasn't been a public health problem anywhere near the scale of alcohol where it has been legalized. Regulation and taxation on the order of what we do with alcohol could lead to us limitting the THC content of pot and a re-direction of marijuana revenues to more constructive purposes.

Philosophically, I am not against laws restricting or regulating human action when there is a sigfnificant benefit to society, but I do believe that we ought to try the least restrictive and coercive alternative if it will produce similar or greater benefits.”

“Well put, Ped...”

“why don't we make all drugs legal. You would have to get a scrip for the drug of your choice thru your Dr. Talk about a great way to increase tax flow but the real upside is that once you find out who is addicted to certain drugs you could get them off of it by replacing it with whatever is used in drug rehab clinics. By doing this that would stop a lot of the crime that is drug related.”

“I don't know Tree. Imagine having the government in your weed. I mean, really, this is the same government that thought 3.2 beer was a good thing. The only government approved weed would some nasty, weak skunky funky. Now is that what you really want? LOL!”

“Maybe that's good point, Nigal! lol.

Seriously, what I do or don't do is not at issue here. I am talking from more of (what I feel is) a pragmatic viewpoint. It makes sense to me. I understand that a lot of folks have trouble accepting this. It takes a lot to unravel deeply planted stigmas sometimes...”

“Treebeard, gasoline may seem expensive, but compared with most other processed liquids, this versatile fuel remains a bargain. For example, bottled spring water sells for the equivalent of about $4 a gallon, coffee $10 a gallon and mouthwash nearly $18 a gallon.
The two dollars you pay for gasoline goes to:

Federal and State Taxes.

To the owner and employees of the gas station.

To the oil company to meet the payroll of tens of thousands of workers.

To the governments of mostly poor countries where the money can be used to bring their populations out of poverty.”

“To the oil company to meet the payroll of tens of thousands of workers.

Don't forget the fat, bloated CEOs also! And, like Nigal said, look at where it comes from...


I also suggest you start gargling with it. It's cheaper!”

“Prosecutor: Those liquid expense figures are pretty silly. They include the very low volume cost of the items. Yes Spring water somes to something like 4 dollars a gallon if you buy it in 20 ounce bottles, but if you buy it buy the gallon - I can get it for 89 cents a gallon and that includes the individual container. I can get it for less at a bulk store if I supply the container.”

“One of the arguments drug czar John Walters used to justify prohibition was that if medical marijuana were legal, 100,000 people in California alone would be smoking pot.

ummmm... hello!


Marijuana is relatively safe to use, is effective for many ailments, has few side effects and nobody has ever died from it. Can you say the same about many legally prescribed medicines? The federal prohibition is just protection for the highly profitable pharmaceutical industry. A cynical person would add that it also protects a highly profitable illegal industry as well.

AARP found that nearly three quarters of Americans 45 and over favor legalized medical marijuana. Shouldn’t the wishes of the majority and the interests of sick and dying people carry more weight?”

“That said, I can't fault the Supreme Court for the decision. Congress should take this issue up once the press from steroid use in baseball dies down.”

“"Guilty of felonious illness"

Reminds me of idiotic ABC radio news this morning. Said a dad was arrested for "knowing that his son was trained to kill Americans". No! He was arrested for not (honestly) telling anybody about it. Idiots.
last edited: 6/08/05 12:01:51 PM”

“Violin, Marinol (prescription synthetic marijuana) has been available since 1986. If you need it, see your doctor.”

“Violin, forget the fake stuff buy the real deal”

“But it's just not as cool if you can't put it in your dragon bong.”

“"AARP found that nearly three quarters of Americans 45 and over favor legalized medical marijuana."

Gee V, there's a resounding endorsment seeings how most of the AARP crowd are from the 60's now. LOL!”

“FYI - I don't smoke pot prosecutor.

I'm thinking of those who are suffering needlessly.

Try it sometime.”

“Marinol and other prescription drugs have been proven by FDA testing to work better to prevent suffering than smoking marijuana.”

“There was virtually no medical marijuana research conducted in the US for about two decades. Only a handfull of studies have been conducted to date.

Are you sure about this 'testing'?”

“For one thing, smoking is generally a poor way to deliver medicine. It is difficult to administer safe, regulated dosages of medicines in smoked form. Secondly, the harmful chemicals and carcinogens that are byproducts of smoking create entirely new health problems. There are four times the level of tar in a marijuana cigarette, for example, than in a tobacco cigarette
Morphine, for example, has proven to be a medically valuable drug, but the FDA does not endorse the smoking of opium or heroin. Instead, scientists have extracted active ingredients from opium, which are sold as pharmaceutical products like morphine, codeine, hydrocodone or oxycodone. In a similar vein, the FDA has not approved smoking marijuana for medicinal purposes, but has approved the active ingredient-THC-in the form of scientifically regulated Marinol.

The DEA has registered seven research initiatives to continue researching the effects of smoked marijuana as medicine. For example, under one program established by the State of California, researchers are studying the potential use of marijuana and its ingredients on conditions such as multiple sclerosis and pain. At this time, however, neither the medical community nor the scientific community has found sufficient data to conclude that smoked marijuana is the best approach to dealing with these important medical issues.

The medical use of THC is best in pill form.”

“Yeah! So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.”

“[img]http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/{E5135D66-F692-4518-BC73-613BE7154367}.gif[/img]

Well dang! Does the img tags not work for gifs??

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/{E5135D66-F692-4518-BC73-613BE7154367}.gif
last edited: 6/08/05 5:52:15 PM”

“

Gov't Finds Highest, Lowest Marijuana Use By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer
Fri Jun 17, 8:55 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Both college towns, Boston and Boulder, Colo., share another distinction: They lead the nation in marijuana use. Northwestern Iowa and southern Texas have the lowest use.

For the first time, the government looked at the use of drugs, cigarettes, alcohol and various other substances, legal as well as illegal, by region rather than by state for a report Thursday.

Regions could be as specific as Riverside, Calif., or as broad as all of the state of New York (minus New York City). Federal officials say the information will help states decide where they should spend money for treatment and prevention programs.

For marijuana, 5.1 percent of people around the country reported using marijuana in the previous 30 days. In Boston, the home of Boston University, Boston College, Northeastern and several other colleges, 12.2 percent reported using marijuana in the previous 30 days.

John Auerbach, executive director of the public health commission for the city of Boston, said the survey might not reflect current marijuana use in Boston because the data came from 1999-2001 national surveys.

"All that said, we're not surprised that substance abuse is a serious issue in the Boston area," Auerbach said. "The mayor and the health department have made the issue of substance abuse a top public health priority."

Auerbach also acknowledged that the data may reflect the city's significant 20-something population.

"College students in general have a more relaxed attitude about marijuana than other age groups," he said. "But in general, I don't think Boston has a markedly differently perspective on marijuana than other parts of the country."

The federal report doesn't explain why certain regions fare worse than others when it comes to smoking pot or cigarettes, or for heavy alcohol use, only that they do.

In Boulder County, the home of the University of Colorado, 10.3 percent reported using marijuana during the same time period. But a public health official who has studied marijuana usage there said he too had doubts about the report.

Dr. Chuck Stout, the county's public health director, said he has studied marijuana usage among teens. The percentage of high school students in Boulder County who acknowledged smoking marijuana differed little from state and national averages. He said he doubted that students at the university were heavier marijuana users than students at dozens of other universities around the country.

"Where you have concentrations of younger, active people, you'll have more experimentation with a variety of risk behaviors, but that's true for so many other parts of the country as well," Stout said. "I think this (report) is a huge stretch."

Federal officials said they highlighted the marijuana report because it's the most commonly used illicit drug. But the survey also measures 11 other categories.

For example, the survey measures binge drinking — defined as five or more drinks in one setting.

Nationally, 20 percent of people age 12 and older reported one or more episodes of binge drinking during the previous month.

Boston scored high in that category, too, with nearly 30 percent of respondents acknowledging binge drinking. But the Northeast and Southeast regions of North Dakota reported binge drinking among 32 percent of residents of that age group. Overall, North Dakota had the highest rate of binge drinking when compared with other states — 29.2 percent.

"The further north you are, typically, the more alcohol is consumed," said Douglas Wright, a mathematical statistician with the federal government who helped put the report together.”

“they are a little slow on getting these results out. I find it interesting that binge drinking has a way higher % than toking does.”

“TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- A cannabis-based painkiller for multiple sclerosis patients went on sale Monday in Canada, the first country to approve the spray derived from the marijuana plant.

Sativex can now be obtained by prescription through Canadian pharmacies, Bayer HealthCare announced Monday. Bayer markets the drug in Canada for British drug company GW Pharmaceuticals, which developed the drug.

Health Canada, the federal agency that oversees medical care for Canadians, announced in April it had approved Sativex, made from components derived from the cannabis plant that have been shown to ease pain.

Medical professionals welcomed the availability.

"Effective pain control and management are extremely important in a disease like MS," said Dr. Allan Gordon, a neurologist and director of the Wasser Pain Management Center at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto. "The availability of Sativex addresses the great demand for an effective treatment option in the field of neuropathic pain in MS."

Many people with multiple sclerosis, an autoimmune disease that affects the central nervous system, treat their pain by smoking marijuana. But the dose is hard to regulate and the drug is difficult to obtain legally.

About 2.5 million are believed to have MS worldwide, of which about 50,000 are Canadian, according to the U.S. National Multiple Sclerosis Society. About half of MS patients say they suffer from chronic pain, the society said.

Sativex is administered through a spray pump under the tongue or on the inside of the cheek.

In 2001, Canada became the first country to adopt a system regulating the medicinal use of marijuana for people suffering from terminal illnesses and chronic conditions.

In the United States, the federal government has classified marijuana as a drug that is as dangerous as heroin, although 10 states have passed laws that allow its use under medical supervision.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/20/canada.cannabis.ap/index.html”

“SEATTLE - An Army veteran who fled to Canada to avoid prosecution for growing marijuana to treat his chronic pain was yanked from a hospital by Canadian authorities, driven to the border with a catheter still attached, and turned over to U.S. officials, his lawyer says.

He then went five days with no medical treatment and only ibuprofen for the pain, attorney Douglas Hiatt said.

Steven W. Tuck, 38, was still fitted with the urinary catheter when he shuffled into federal court for a detention hearing Wednesday, Hiatt said.

"This is totally inhumane. He's been tortured for days for no reason," Hiatt said.

U.S. Magistrate Judge James P. Donohue ordered Tuck temporarily released so he could be taken to a hospital for treatment.

However, by the time Donohoe issued his order, King County Jail officials had received a detainment request from Humboldt County, Calif., so Tuck was not released Wednesday, Hiatt said.

"I can't believe we've run into another snag here," the lawyer said.

Tuck suffered debilitating injuries in the 1980s when his parachute failed to open during a jump, and those injuries were exacerbated by a car crash in 1990, Hiatt said. He said Tuck was using marijuana to treat his chronic pain.

In 2001, while he was living in McKinleyville, Calif., his marijuana operation was raided for the second time. He fled to British Columbia to avoid prosecution but asylum was denied.

Last Friday, he checked himself into a Vancouver hospital for prostate problems, and it was there that he was arrested.

Richard Cowan, a friend who runs the Web site marijuananews.com, said in a telephone interview from Canada that he was with Tuck at the hospital when Canadian authorities arrested him.

"I would not believe it unless I had seen it," Cowan said. "They sent people in to arrest him while he was on a gurney. They took him out of the hospital in handcuffs, put him in an SUV, and drove him to the border."

He was turned over to Whatcom County Jail officials, who called federal marshals. The marshals took him to the King County Jail in Seattle.

Though Tuck has taken morphine — as prescribed by doctors — for about 16 years to help with his pain, he was given no painkiller or treatment at the jail other than ibuprofen, Hiatt said. Tuck appeared emaciated in court, and Hiatt said he had been sick from morphine withdrawal.

A message left with representatives of the King County Jail was not immediately returned Wednesday. A spokesman with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Vancouver said he could not immediately comment on the case.

Tuck is charged federally with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. Donohue agreed to release him on the condition that he face the charge in the Northern District of California upon his release from the hospital.

The Supreme Court ruled in June that people who smoke marijuana because their doctors recommend it to ease pain can be prosecuted for violating federal drug laws, even in states like California that have laws permitting medical marijuana use.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051013/ap_on_he_me/patient_arrest”

“LOL! Liberal (in)activism at it best! Stay (in)active and jaded V! you DO make a difference!”

“looks like things are changing tonight for Colorado......”

“but who knows how it will hold up”

“Unfortuneatly that's only Denver, now if they'd just put it on the ballot in Arapahoe...”