Identity Theft

“So Citibank becomes the latest to lose your identity. Four million customers. When are they going to do something to stop this?


It pisses me off that I could apply for a job or rent an apartment anywhere, and some gimp working there can go do a check on me and get enough info to steal my id. Or some fecker at a bank.

And why are all these data companies allowed to store all this data on ME and sell this info for a profit.

When is there going to be some action to stop this. Oh, and why do stores keep my credit card details even after they've been credited with the cash and the transaction completed.

Why why why?”

“Because they can.”

“and why is your beloved bush doing nothing about it SS? Too many monied interests involved?”

“UPS lost the data.”

“LOL
It's always Bush's fault!”

“Last December, 2003, President BUSH signed the Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act, which established a national system of fraud detection so that identity thieves can be stopped before they run up tens of thousands of dollars in illegal purchases. Thanks to this law, victims can make one phone call to alert all three major credit rating agencies to report the crime and to protect their credit ratings.

On July 15, 2004, President BUSH sign a law that dramatically strengthen the fight against identity theft and fraud. This new law establishes in the federal criminal court the offense of aggravated identity theft. And someone convicted of that crime can expect to go to jail for stealing a person's good name. These punishments will come on top of any punishment for crimes that proceed from identity theft. For example, when someone is convicted of mail fraud in a case involving stolen personal information, judges will now impose two sentences, one for mail fraud, and one for aggravated identity theft. Those convicted of aggravated identity theft must serve an additional mandatory two-year prison term. Someone convicted of aggravated identity theft, such as using a false passport in connection with a terrorism case, would receive an additional prison sentence of five years. In addition, judges will not be allowed to let those convicted of aggravated identity theft serve their sentence on probation.

This law also raises the standard of conduct for people who have access to personal records through their work at banks, government agencies, insurance companies, and other storehouses of financial data. The law directs the United States Sentencing Commission to make sure those convicted of abusing and stealing from their customers serve a sentence equal to their crimes.”

“So Prosecutor, how about doing something to stop the problem at souce rather than playing as cleaning things up after the disaster has happened. How about some effective privacy laws? You're a Prosecutor - seriously the best way to tackle crime is to stop it happening in the first place, not some half-assed measures to help clean up the mess.
Europe has some real privacy laws which limit the data private companies can keep on individuals. Why can't something similar be applied here?”

“[b]Thanks to this law, victims can make one phone call to alert all three major credit rating agencies to report the crime and to protect their credit ratings. [/b] After it happens. Still leaves consumer with a mess.

This new law establishes in the federal criminal court the offense of aggravated identity theft. And someone convicted of that crime can expect to go to jail for stealing a person's good name. These punishments will come on top of any punishment for crimes that proceed from identity theft. For example, when someone is convicted of mail fraud in a case involving stolen personal information, judges will now impose two sentences, one for mail fraud, and one for aggravated identity theft. Those convicted of aggravated identity theft must serve an additional mandatory two-year prison term. Someone convicted of aggravated identity theft, such as using a false passport in connection with a terrorism case, would receive an additional prison sentence of five years. In addition, judges will not be allowed to let those convicted of aggravated identity theft serve their sentence on probation. - again after the event.

This law also raises the standard of conduct for people who have access to personal records through their work at banks, government agencies, insurance companies, and other storehouses of financial data. The law directs the United States Sentencing Commission to make sure those convicted of abusing and stealing from their customers serve a sentence equal to their crimes.” Again too little too late.

Seriously now, isn't it better to limit the vast array of info out there that's easily avalaible. Maybe a few more republican senators need to have their identities stolen before something is done.

And stovey, - this reqires legislation - Bush is President, Republicans Control Senate, Republicans control House - who else can pass legislation?”

“Or maybe these firms holding the infohave to be responsible for replacing the money stolen and take on the cost and time of repairing an individuals damaged credit. Ya gonna see far fewer thefts then.”

“LOL, y2.
Dems can pass legislation if they care to, and quit just being obstructionist to anything Rep.”

“I have trouble believing you actually believe half the stuff you post stovey. Someone needs to tak,e real action against this. And sure, there's probably almost as much money at stake to democrats as republicans. For one instance politicians need to put the interests of the voters above that of their campaign balance sheet. To actually be passed this move needs to come from Republicans. Oh, and have you ever heard of the majority of the majority practice being used in government these days?”

“LOL
I have trouble believing you actually believe half the stuff you post, y2.

You have no idea what I believe.
You just think you know. I haven't the faintist urge to correct you.
Words aren't my forte. I make my living by reasoning problems and finding solutions.
Political topics are just word games.”

“Words aren't my forte. I make my living by reasoning problems and finding solutions.

I think that's why many liberals have trouble understanding conservatives. We aren't concerned with making an idea sound good and fluffy. We just state the facts. I've noticed liberals seem obsessed with heartfelt sounding solutions. It's as if it's a good idea if, when you read it, it seems to roll of the tongue and move you somehow. What is it? Style over substance.”

“y2, it's just the corporate take-over of America.

Resistance is futile.”

“hey sarge, iffin your gonna quote, quote all of it.

Political topics are just word games

does that sound like reasoning or problem solving”

“Ewker -

You have no idea what I believe.
You just think you know. I haven't the faintist urge to correct you.

LOL
I have trouble believing you actually believe half the stuff you post
last edited: 6/07/05 9:01:03 AM”

“In August 1997, I moved into a tent. Put all my belongings into a storage unit, and lived in the tent for 5 months. My mail was collected at a PO Box. A very small P O Box.
To keep junk mail from filling the box, I let very few contacts know about my address change. In November 1997, I took a trip to the Carribean. Someone on that trip typed out the contact information of the people that went on the trip, and sold the addresses for a minimal amount. The junk mail started flowing. A couple of years later, I got a larger box, and again, let very few people know about the change.

you may say, "Goat, we are talking about bank accounts here."
Bank accounts, addresses, phone numbers... all the same. This has been going on for a long time. Lets not blame republicans or democrats for the mess they have left us. Lets blame Washington. There is a problem. I saw it coming long ago.

In August of 1997, I began wondering about my SS #. What is a SS# for? Seems like every entity uses that number for a Personal Identification Number. I've got to use that number for tax purposes, so I must give it to an employer. That employer then uses the number for my worker employer number.
I had to take a piss test. The receptionist wanted my SS#. I told her that social security numbers are to be used for social security purposes only. She cocked her head sideways like a dog that just heard a sour note. She ended up using my Drivers Licence number. The nurse that secured my urine didn't understand that we were using my DL number. Somewhere in this world, the person with a SS# which matches my DL# has a clean test on record.

There is a HUGE problem with the information kept on every individual that does business in this land. Alas... take these steps to secure your identity? Feck that!!!!
Seems that some in this land don't care about the hurt that others must go through to clear thier good name. They won't care until they have to jump through the hoops themselves.
Sitting on the phone listening to prerecorded messages and lousy music for endless minutes, waiting for the chance to talk with a human, only later finding out that Deependra got back from his 15 minute lunch break to answer your call with the best broken english his sanskrit will allow.
Day after Day, you do this...
Sitting on the phone listening to prerecorded messages and lousy music for endless minutes, waiting for the chance to talk with a human, only later finding out that Chandani got back from her 15 minute lunch break to answer your call with the best broken english her sanskrit would allow.
And where does it get you?
Sitting on the phone listening to prerecorded messages and lousy music for endless minutes, waiting for the chance to talk with a human, only later finding out that Upama got back from her 15 minute lunch break to answer your call with the best broken english her sanskrit will allow.
Hello? Is anybody here to help me?

These days, I play games. When someone asks me for my information, I ask why they need it. Most employees of Joe's Smack Shack have no idea why thier employer wants the info. If someone wants my zip code before they ring up my items, I tell them 90210. They use the zip code info to better target thier mass mail junk. Wondering what the Zip Code for the White House is!

Your information is my information if I want it.”

“sarge, are you stealing SS identity ;)”

“Nope. Just following your directions. ; )”

“at least we have directions, whether right or wrong..lol”

“the age of the interent my friends
we got taken for a lot of money because of info on the net.

they want your money and info, they will find it
they will even look in your trash.”

“If you lock up the identity theives, they won't be able to commit their crimes. If you pass a whole bunch more laws trying to "prevent" identity theft, you just take away freedoms from law abiding citizens and force criminals to employ different means to commit their crimes. Locking up the criminals longer will do more to reduce identity theft in the long run.

If you care about identity theft, buy a paper shredder, and periodically get copies of your credit report.”

“how about this...
If you care about Identity Theft, fix the system that allows it to happen.
Locking up criminals seems to be a solution for all crimes. Whos is going to pay for the next jail? Don't build it in my backyard? Lock up the identity theives, but make room for them by letting the rapists, murderers, and black & white television thieves run free. Oh, and lets not forget the drug people. Life in prison for a little bit of coke. How is that working out in Michigan?
Getting periodical copies of your credit report only allows quick access to irregularities in that report. The person with the stollen identity still needs to fix it on his own time.
Paper shedders don't work against people who steal directly from your mailbox. That information in junk mail which you didn't ask for.”

“Banks are required by law to share information with credit bureaus for a variety of reasons, one of wich is to help prevent fraud. To do so requires data to be transmitted. No ones data in this instance was sold or traded casually like a bubblegum baseball card.

Every piece of data a bank asks of you is required by law in order to keep you secure. How data is stored, transmitted, used, who can access it and how those people get hired and vetted is already mandated and regulated by law. Citi already exceeds those standards.

This particular part of Citi shipped data on encrypted data tape via UPS secure courier service. The courier lost the package, not Citi. The point of failure was outside despite additioanl requirements imposed on UPS.

Even if a thief gets the tapes, good luck cracking them. You will need a very hefty mainframe setup in addition to the encryption key plus a few other unique hardware and software goodies to make sense of the data even if you did crack it. Frankly to steal the tapes would be the single most time intensive and risky method to snag personal info.

Phishing and direct hacking is easier and more productive.

I really do agree with you in principle, I don't want my info in the public domain but The politicians have long since been passing laws regarding finance and data.

So sure, lets pass some more laws designed by people who don't understand the issues and are beholden to PAC money and political agendas that are divorced from the average American. That way in addition to the piss test, background check, Id tag, 20 redundant passwords, clean desk policy, desk locks, email sniffer, browser checks, firewall lockdown, auto registration, security audits and daily retina scans you can add an anal probe to the litany of things I have to go through to get anything done at work and I don't even access sensitive info anymore.”

“HPM, will you have my baby? Great reply.”

“HPM for Congress.”

“Wanna bet the Libs don't even read HPMs post? LOL”

“Style over substance.”

“HPM's post has style and substance”

“It's ALL Bush's fault! ;-)”

“I don't follow HPM, I thought knee jerk rules merely for the sake of feeling like something is being done is a good thing. Let's make 100 rules based on one freak occurance, yeah, that's the ticket.”

“LOL - I didn't even read the post.

Locally there is somebody pushing to outlaw turtles in daycares b/c of potential disease. Yeah, that's a big problem! LOL”

“Turtles carry salamonila... something like that, but so does Jack in the Box.

Yes, HPM's post was most fantastic.

Making laws that lock up identity thievs is probably not the answer. Changing laws so that our identity is no longer a comodity may be the way to go about it. This countries business's will lobby against anything of that nature.

Maybe we need to return to the days when a Social Security Number was used for tax purposes only. All other uses of the number should be forbiden, if they ain't already.
Actually, what are the current laws about that number?”

“I don't have to worry. Nobody wants to be me anyhow. LOL!”

“That sounds great but how do I make sure you are who you say you are?

Obviously I need to validate unique identifiers against each other but how many things are there that are unique to you that are difficult to get a hold of?

In addition to that, what unique identifiers are there that can be shared between institutions to help them identify who the deadbeats, cheats and risky customers are? It isn't just the banks and lenders who want to know who is who. The IRS and Feds use that info too. Not to mention your medical records.

If the government touches anything and it
needs to be private then your SSN will get tied to it at some point.

The next step in security is biometrics. And believe you me, we are heading that way right now. (along with RF transactions)

With all the debate about a national ID card they all fail to realize that there already is one in place. It's called a SSN.
last edited: 6/07/05 1:02:12 PM”

“there are better ways to handle this information, other countries manage it effectively.

And Prosecutor - you can honestly tell me that corporations collecting vast amounts of information on individuals enhances their freedom?”

“Y2, in the U.S., one is free to obtain information through lawful means and use it as it best suits them. Not much different than you reading the internet for news.

If you do not want others to know your identifiers, either do not give it out, or negotiate with them that they will idemnify you if they allow others to have that information. It is a free country.”

“there are better ways to handle this information, other countries manage it effectively.

Ok, spell it out. What part?
Or are you just touting the European Data Protection Directive without knowing the particulars of it?

Sure the DPD is highly restrictive to business and in some places it should be, but it provides almost no protection from the government. Many are concerned that exemptions in the DPD allows European governments free reign to your personal information.

Sure, you will get less junk mail but the government will know and track things about you that you wouldn't tell your mother.”

“Highly restrictive huh? To me that's a good thing when it involves keeping records on individuals. I'm aware of some of the details of it.

And as for governements collecting info. Well of course they do that. There is some data that needs to be collected, but I would rather it be limited.

Seriously Prosecutor, you think that this practice, largely compiled by businesses in thier interests actually protects the Freedoms of the individual - Such as my credit card purchase history, or Safeway offering savings to collect details of what I buy?

Prosecutor, I thought you were in favor of the rights of the individual, not the corporation?”

“Y2, the affluence in the United States is a direct result of a combination of capitalism, free markets, and a relatively minimal amount of government regulation. The more you tack on laws to regulate corporations, the more you reduce the economy, jobs, and the per capia affluence. If you want to go to an extreme and have a government run economy to reduce ones chances of being victimized by an identity thief, then you will have to make do with a Soviet Union overall level of poverty.”

“That's completely wide of the mark Prosecutor. Protecting the freedoms of the individual is the way to enhance capitalism not curtail it. Perhaps you need to focus a little more on the individual and a little less on the corporate entity.
And the freemdoms being afforded to businesses to collect data are curtailing the freedoms of individuals to live free from financial crimes.”

“businesses are started and run by robots”

“You cannot pass a law that will eliminate identity theft. Many proposed fixes will be more costly to the economy than the crimes they seek to prevent.”

“no, you just pass a law to limit the amount of information a company can hold on any individual, and make it illegal to hold any information which isn't absolutely necessary.

You could also fine companies for daqta lost. Say in this instance $10 a soc number. I think citi corp would have been much more careful with a $390m fine at stake.”

“Business are not in the habit of acquiring data that is not necessary for their business. All that info the bank gets is used to determine identity, credit score, marketing, and other useful purposes to the bank. There will always be insiders who will break laws and sell private data, and a new law won't stop it. Locking up the identity thieves for longer times will reduce the amount of identity theft around, if only to take the players out of the game for longer times.”

“Highly restrictive huh? To me that's a good thing when it involves keeping records on individuals.

As I said, in some areas it should be. In others the DPD creates more problems. I'm not in favor of bringing back Laissez-faire.

And as for governements collecting info. Well of course they do that.

No, actually we don't. Not the level of information we are discussing. We have many laws that restrict Government access to sensitive personal information like financial records and medical records. The DPD has no such gurantees built in and those it has, many member states have exempted themselves from.

The DPD is hard on business regarding non-sensitive data like addresses, email and phone numbers and soft on big brother with sensitive data like financials and medical records. I think there is a median between the two that should be reached.

I agree that there is no reason for companies to hold sensitive data on individuals that they have absolutely no dealings with. I am definitely in favor of more restrictive policies regarding personal data. But they need to make sense and be applied in a balanced manner. I just don't see the DPD as the benchmark.

Frankly the vision of the impending command economy are overblown. All folks are really asking is that their info be safe with those they do business with. That is not unreasonable.

Furthermore it IS a current driving market factor. Customers are demanding it and business is responding, including Citi.
last edited: 6/08/05 9:58:40 PM”

“Like I said in an earlier post, I get my mail in a P O Box. I've been monitoring who I give what name to, and from where I am recieving mail from.
In 1998, I purchased a Chevy truck. Although I financed the truck through a credit union, the dealership still insisted on having my personal information so that they could finish the paperwork. They would not accept my P O Box number as a home address. I gave them my parents address, and told them not to send any mail to that address because I don't live there. Since that time, my parents have been getting mail with my name on it for such things as credit card applications from several banks, salesman brochures, and Chevy sales advertisements.

It would be a wonderful world if corperations used personal info only for themselves. But they tend to share it with other corperations. That is what angers me most.
And how about that case in a few months ago where some shady characters purchased personal info from a company (in Georgia(?)) which suplies such info. Who made it legal to store info on people and sell it? Who can make it illegal? The corperate world would not allow a ban on gathering and trading such a wealth of information because it would hinder access to a potentially large customer base.”

“Sarbar had a very bad story experience with identity theft that she shared on backpacker.com

WARNING It has to do with a gun registration or purchase, that's when she found out she had a supposed "record." I'm not trying to get yet another frickin' gun debate here.... stick to the topic, identity theft, mmm-kay?

http://forums.backpacker.com/thread.jspa?forumID=6&threadID=61511&messageID=1027004#1027004”