Maps of Pisgah - Great Balsams and Plott Balsams

“I am looking for maps of Pisgah National Forest, particularly Shining Rock Wilderness and places where the mountain ranges of the Plott Balsams and the Great Balsams.

I plan on doing a trip there in October to bag some sixers.”

“Get the National Forest Service Shining Rock Wilderness map if you want the best one of that particular region. It's a huge map that combines Shining Rock and Middle Prong Wilderness with detailed trail information for hitting most of the sixers there. Doesn't show any trails for the ones that have unofficial bushwhacks to the summits, but the official trails are all there in great detail. Plus, that map is one tough mofu. Waterproof, too.

The National Geographic Trails Illustrated series is good, too.”

“thanks for the info”

“I am preparing a large scale map of wild resources in that area right now but it is not ready for publication yet.”

“are the Balsams in Nantahala NF or Pisgah NF? I think some of them are on private property.”

“The Plotts are, I think, in Pisgah. I could be wrong.

One of the Southern sixers is totally in private hands. The summit, that is. I think there's even a cabin near the top, so you're not supposed to go up there. Trespassing. In fact, you're not supposed to venture down the west side of the slopes of the Blacks because all of that land (30K acres) belongs to the rich and powerful Hanes Family of Winston-Salem. They've ceded some rights to the Nature Conservancy, but it's still all private property with about a dozen cabins sprinkled throughout that acreage.

Clingman's Peak, just across the road from the Mount Mitchell State Park hq is off limits because there's a fence around the radio/microwave tower on the summit. You can SEE the summit and walk around the fence, but you can't actually summit that peak due to the fence and towers. you can summit the higher Mount Gibbes, which is adjacent.”

“i got a pretty good national geographic map of that area. it's number 780, the pisgah ranger district.”

“The Balsam Mountains coinciding with the Haywood-Jackson county line have the Blue Ridge Parkway with a narrow strip of National Park property pretty well continuosly along their crest with Pisgah NF and the Waynesville watershed (now protected by conservation easement) on the Haywood side

with much Nantahala NF lands on the Jackson county side, NW transyvania County below the Parkway might be considered Balsam Mountains as well and is about all a part of Pisgah NF.

Unfortunately, a tract of near 5,000 acres (formerly called the Willets' tract on the Jackson county side of the Balsam Mountains was recently opened for residential development), supposedly under strict guidelines but still it could have been added to the Nantahala NF. The development is ironically called 'Balsam Mountain Preserve'.

The Plott Balsams are another story and are being covered rapidly with roads and houses.
A couple small tracts of Nantahala NF are there, the Sylva watershed, a strip of Parkway land, a recent 1,500 acre acquisition by the Nature Conservancy and several thousand acres of private land, in large tracts, but being broken up as we speak that by all means should be acquired along the Parkway.

Drive Highway 19 up to Soco Gap at the Parkway right now and see that big real estate sign which says:

700 Acres Available - Ideal for residential development (this tract runs from US 19 along the Parkway boundary and up near the 6,000' elevation).

I am not in favor of taking land but if it is for sell, it seems imperative to me the public come up with the money to outbid developers along these remaining high elevation mountain treasures.
last edited: 6/10/05 7:44:08 AM”

“ENS, you might want to check Cradle of Forestry. I have bought maps from them before. There website is under construction but here is the number
1-800-660-0671 (ext 11)”

“The Cane River Club property on the west slope of the Black Mountain range extending to the east slope of the Craggies is actually about 10,000 acres (with a conservation easement in favor of the American Farmland Trust which allows the owners to manage for timber and is mainly the owners private hunting and fishing area and cannot be divided or developed but is not open to the public).

At the head (south end ) of the Cane River watershed along the north slope of Blackstack Knob extending over to Point Misery is an old subdivision (upwards of 1000 acres) into 40 and 80 acre tracts of private land, a couple of which have been acquired for Mt. Mitchell SP in recent years with imminent possibility of more of the tracts being acquired by the state. At this time the state proerties are not all contiguous.
last edited: 6/10/05 8:04:57 AM”

“ahh. that was the website that I used in the past too. That is why it is down. Maybe it will be back up soon.”

“I thought that land was owned by the family of Big Tom Wilson, no?”

“Commonly called the Heirs of Big Tom Wilson - the 'No Trespassing' posters are signed by men whose last names are Silver and Bagwell.”

“Haven't seen you around but welcome and thanks for all the information. It sounds like you know the area very well. Do you work with the Nature Conservatory or one of the state gruops seeking to aquire conservation easements or just an interested citizen?”

“For the Shining Rock area I like the topos from National Geographic Trails Illustrated. The Best Hikes of Pisgah National Forest is a good book for the area as well. By the way, the map for Pisgah Ranger District is Map # 780.”

“I hope the land of Big Tom remains wilderness. I hear they have some huge bears in that area.”

“I am a private entrepreneur who has followed the conservation activities of the southern Blue Ridge area since I was 14 in 1968 when I became aware that the conservation lands of this area were an ongoing and growing process.

Tragically, NC allowed Senator No (Jester Helms) to pretty well stymy such activities here for 30 years, but private groups accomplished much during that time and now the state of NC has embarked upon an aggressive program of wild and rural land acquisition but it needs to be funded more than the current $65 to maybe 120 million per year level.

Utopianally, a one time state bond amounting to $1,000 per person (I think New Jersey has?) equalling $8 billion or so could accomplish much in the way of rural and wild land acquisition and could be paid off over 10 or 20 years. That amount of money is spent in North Carolina by the state and federal governments to build and maintain highways each year or 2.

There is also much conservation activity going on in the areas of SC, GA, TN and sw VA adjoining North Carolina.

Mapmakers have not kept up with this flurry of activity and I am working on such a project, a neat wall sized map showing the 4 million acres of protected land within about a 12 million acre area and is of a little more limited scope than the commonly phrased Rome (GA) to Roanoke (VA) region.
last edited: 6/10/05 11:25:03 AM”

“I was born in NC and now reside in the Greenville/Spartanburg area of SC. It made my day to see the state of NC take the Dupont Forest away from Jim Anthony. He made a killing on the deal but nevertheless the people own it now. Jim Anthony is a big hero to the Chamber of Commerce crowd here in the Upstate but in my opinion he's a land pillager of the first order.
last edited: 6/10/05 11:35:25 AM”

“Yeh, Solitary, that is one 'taking of land' that I strongly approve of..
last edited: 6/10/05 11:38:48 AM”

“Went to school in Cullowhee, with a view of Plott Balsam, gosh I miss those days, a real pretty place anytime of year.
but the ATL isn't far...
The middle prong has some great fly fishing streams”

“I have no problem at all with the Feds taking private land away from landowners and putting it aside as wilderness. A man's "right" to turn a profit ends with the rights of all of us to breathe fresh air, drink clean water, and enjoy solitude and an unspoiled vista.

The recent debacle with that jackass in SC (Marchant?) who bought that peak in the Mountain Bridge Wilderness and caused the Rim of the Gap Trail to be first closed, then rerouted was all I needed to convince me that condeming private property and taking possession of it for parkland is a pretty good idea.

I would have no problem at all with nationalizing all of the private wooded lands in and around our high peaks areas and forming new state parks, wilderenss areas, and/or national parks.

Let's have it. Now.

Private conservation groups can only do so much. It generally takes a national government initiative to set aside adequate acreage to protect ecosystems. The Nature Conservancy and other groups do good work, but that's not enough. I've watched urban sprawl crunch away at the Southern Appalachians for the past thirty years until once-isolated areas are now becoming small, quaint parklands.”

“Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Property.”

“Generally speaking, since most of the Southern mountains are for sale anyhow, at a price, it would be better for the transactions to occur on a willing seller-willing buyer basis as funds are available

and of course the availablilty of funds is the key.

Bear in mind that large scale purchases will drive up the price of the property that remains and make the remaining properties more difficult to acquire.

But without further major action on the part of the public the SE Apps. will soon resemble Disneyland or Hong Kong.

Just this evening Asheville TV news discussed a proposed new huge casino planned to be located on Cherokee Tribal lands in either Graham or Cherokee County. Thats fine, the Tribe can do as it pleases (and is allowed by law) on Tribal lands but such action will spur subdivision and development of surrounding private land.
last edited: 6/10/05 7:15:04 PM”

“Yeah Marchant is the guy who is building the house up on top of Caesar's Head that caused the closing and rerouting of the Rim of the Gap Trail. I can't believe the guy would do it but these developers in the Upstate of SC are in a league all their own. Money and conspicuous consumption is the stock and trade of the Good Ole Boy network here in SC. I would have thought that Tom(?)Wyche would have been crying to beat heaven but not a peep. Even if he did they wouldn't have made much of it in the local news seeings how the Greenville News and Channel 4 WYFF TV, are nothing more than the propaganda arms of the Greenville Chamber of Commerce.”

“I don't care how the land is purchased. Either at a market price (if such funds can be raised), or by condemning property and basically taking it, or by giving tax credits.

In recent years, NC was able to convince a family to sell a huge section of woodlands for inclusion in the Crowder's Mountain State Park. The family finally agreed out of basic decency. They didn't make a ton of money on the deal (they did okay, but less than if they had parceled it out and sold it on the market). One ranger there told me that, in the end, they just thought it was "the best thing to do". So they did it.

But they're the exception.”

“Surprising there are a lot of people like that. I think it's mainly people whose families have owned the land for a long time. They want to see it stay the same and hate to think of developers carving it up into lots for million dollar homes and golf courses. The main objective of most of the conservation groups is to get to those people and let them see the tax advantages of easements and the preservation of the land.”

“Watterrock Knob is owned by the NPS as park of the BRP. South, the trail to Yellow Face is at least three quaters owned by the NPS for the same reason, though before the summit you see boundary signs. Not sure who owns the summit, but there are a few cabins on the west side of the southern Plotts range that included Blackrock Knob and heads south to Sylva. A Boy Scout troop from Sylva maintains a trail up from Sylva all the way to the BRP, but not sure who owns the land. Nevertheless, it is allowed to be accessed by the public.

There is a pseudo trail from Waterrock Knob out to Lyn Lowry (cross). It is on BRP/NPS land up until the summit of Browning Knob (plaque). I call it pseudo trail because it's better than a manway but not nearly as good as a trail. It'll be challenging in the summer months with undergrowth, but very doable. I just did it in April before the growth picked up.

Past Brownign Knob to Lyn Lowry is all private, and yes the trail comes out in the front yard of a house. The CMC has constructed another pseudo trail around the house that you must take. if you do so, your presence is not illegal, as previously suggested by someone. Hikers are allowed by an agreement that the CMC has with the landowners, under conditions of taking this side/detour trail. Likewise for the summit of Lyn Lowry. Plott Balsam I believe is privately owned as well, but not as sure about that one. It's a helluva steep manway down from Lyn Lowry to a gap where you pick up a logging road, but then a breeze of a logging road hike all the way to a decent manway to Plott Balsam summit.

No trial maps, because theyre barely considered trails. Use the topo, if you get lost, follow the ridgeline, it's that simple.

The views from the topo of Lyn lowry are among my favorites in the southern Appalachains. You can see ALL of the Great Balsams, Waynesville, the entire eastern Smokies ridge from Clingmans Dome (and further west) to Mt. Cammerer, including Guyot, Champman, Collins, Leconte, Sequoyah, Kephart, etc. You can also see the Blacks.

You could probably pick out Luftee Knob and Big Cat, & Marks Knob (I couldn't really, because they're off a side ridge of the main crest) and if you could see the Roans (you maybe could, but might be too far north) you could see all 40 southern sixers. Even if you cant, you can see 34.
last edited: 6/11/05 8:54:12 PM”

“Where families have owned land and resisted development, I feel they should be commended even rewarded, but as generations pass the children might take the money and run.

The utilities, industrialists and speculators are the ones seeking maximum short-term gain which results in longterm destruction and generally they will sell to the highest bidder (like Champion Realty, we really let some good ones get away, like the Willets tract (in fact the state Division of Water Quality paid them something like $2 million to make a private park, what?) - Duke Power aka Crescent Resources (which bought out Nantahala Power who let many tracts in the Nantahala watershed be developed (criminal)), etc.

Much less what Champion and Crescent just did on Lake James, sure we got some of it but much went for development after 80 years of being Duke Power defacto wildland! And get this, Crescent has plans to place a theme park, like Carowinds on some of their remaining land there! Near the lower end of Linville Gorge, bizarre?

Anyhow, the current focus is the huge tract on the Johns River in Burke County owned by Duke-Crescent, something like 12k acres, mostly bottomland, was to be a reservoir. We have to get it.

Progress Energy did recently convey a 2500 acre tract on Sandymush Creek (was to be a pumped-storage power reservoir out of the French Broad) to the state, very cool in Buncombe and Madison counties.

Also, Duke still has much acreage on the upper Tuckaseegee in Jackson County.
last edited: 6/11/05 9:48:02 PM”

“As I recall one can see the major peaks along Mt Sterling ridge, Balsam Mt, and AT trails; Big Cataloochee, Luftee,Hardison/Marks, Tri-Corner, Guyot, Old Black, Inadu Knob, Cosby Knob, and Cammermer I really don't think its possible to see Chapman, Sequoyah, Kephart. It's difficult to tell about LeConte because of the peaks in front of it.You can see Clingmans but Collins is hard to make out. You can see the Roans (at least High Knob and High Bluff, Grassy may be hard to see) and the entire Crest of Blacks. You can pick out most of the Great Balsams, except Chestnut Bald and Hardy, which I think are behind Richland; and Tennet, Grassy Cove, and Shining Rock are bumps on the ridge. Sams and Cold are easier to see. Lets not forget Craggy and the mountains to the south”

“Yellow Face is now owned by the National Park Service (a ranger at the Waterrock Knob visitor center related details to me last year). It was owned by a member of the Cherokee Nation and part of the of the Res. Yellow Face summit was traded for 200 acres of bottomlands in the GSMNP, in a move that angered most environmentalists. The Cherokee wanted the Smokies land for a school building, and so a Republican NC Congressman (I forget his name) managed the legislation through to trade Yellow Face for the Smokies Parkland.

Other than Yellow Face and Waterrock Knob, the Plotts are all in private hands. Would be nice to see that land taken and become National Park property.

I've never heard of anyone complaining about hiking those Plott summits, as long as you take the detour around the house.

I need to look up the summit that is definitely off limits. Not sure which range it's in. But the landowners don't allow trespassing on that particular summit, I've been told. One of the lower sixers, I recall, and not on the Carolin Mountain Club list since it's not legally accessible.”

“The NC Congressman for that dsitrict the last 15 or so years is Charles Taylor.

Taylor, unlike his 2 predecessors, Jamie Clarke and Roy Taylor, is strongly opposed to substantial additional public acquisition of wild and scenic land in WNC.

Jamie Clarke was instrumental in many key acquisitions for Nanatahala and Pisgah in the 1980's and his estate still owns a 600 acre inholding in the Panthertown Valley.

Roy Clarke boldly proposed the establishment of a Mount Mitchell National Park to amount to about 175,000 acres which would have required the taking of about 50,000 acres of private land in 1974 and was met by an absolute firestorm of protests from local business interests. A compromise allowing some additional lands, about 6,000 acres, to be acquired for Pisgah NF around Mount Mitchell was reached, in the Bowlens Creek and west side of Cattail Peak and Celo Knob.”

“The Blacks and the Smokies were neck and neck in being considered for a National Park when the idea was in the early stages of planning. The Smokies won out.

The Blacks would indeed make another fine National Park. A shame the corporate scum control us so well.

What became of the push to create a new National Park around Blackwater Falls State Park in WV? I've heard it was a project of Senator Byrd's to create one there. But of course he is quite unpopular with the current administration, so I'm sure they'll be only too happy to see him die without achieving his goal of a new National Park in WV.”

“Edit to the above post - Representative Roy Taylor proposed the Mount Mitchell National Park in 1974.

There is/was a book in the NCSU library being a report from the Secretary of Agriculture to President Theodore Roosevelt in 1902 proposing the establishment of a 2 million acre National Park (to match Yellowstone in area) extending roughly from Greenville, SC to Knoxville, TN and from Murphy to Asheville, NC along with 4 million acres of National Forest to the northeast and southwest. This goal has been about 2/3 achieved in terms of area over the last 100 years but the building of the Blue Ridge Parkway took emphasis away from Park lands temporarily (lands like the Plott Balsams were planned to be added after road construction was completed) and actually costs more than the establishment of GSMNP and the surrounding National Forests.

I have read were the Blue Ridge Parway was at one time intended to have a corrider of parkland 8 miles wide or about 2,000,000 acres of Parkway land.
last edited: 6/12/05 6:08:24 PM”

“The Parkway has been a curse, overall, I'd say. It does give great access to some trailheads, but I'd rather have long hikes than access by autos and the meager protections of that narrow corridor.

The first time I saw Whitesides Mountain at Highlands, I was sick. I stood there and looked at that amazing peak (nothing else like it in the East) and saw all of those freaking houses on every ridge and summit as far as I could see--it made me ill. Mult-million dollar homes right at the flipping trailhead! Oy.

If we were a sane nation, the land from the GA/NC border there and all the way over to Panthertown Valley and north to the Blacks would have been locked up in a vast national park. It would have rivaled most western parks in sheer geological grandeur and outdone them all in botanical diversity.

Alas.”

“100 years ago, there were virtually zero acres of publically protected lands in the SE Apps. For the last 94 years acquisition has occurred at an average of about 40,000 acres per year in this area, although much of it was accomplished when land prices plummetted during the Great Depression with relatively little acquisition since 1945.

Still, with sufficient public interest, since much of that area is for sale, I mean 'Real estate signs are everywhere', after getting many of the thousand plus acre tracts, then the hundred plus acre tracts, then the ten plus acre tracts, with sufficient public interest (and money) many of those houses can be removed from those watersheds and vistas.

I think it will happen.

My motivations might be esoteric, but I like walking up creeks with no development anywhere upstream and the Parkway ruined that prospect for thousands of streams and honestly many sections of that road need ultimately to be abandoned, the cost is great, the storms last September removed many sections of fill and it will happen repeatedly.
last edited: 6/13/05 10:57:38 PM”

“I've thought about that as a way to create a new National Park. Slowly buy up the property with the houses and take them down, one by one. Of course with some houses being valued in millions of dollars apiece, it would be a pricey undertaking. But possible.

I've seen photos of Cataloochee in the Smokies when the GSMNP was first formed. I think there were in excess of 200 large buildings in Cataloochee. Now they're not only almost all gone (a few were saved for the sake of historical markers), but even the fields and groves have vanished into the forests.”

“Many of the houses within the inholdings and on the fringes of the protected lands of the SE Apps. are merely mobile homes and also older modest frame and brick houses. One million dollars could buy 8 to maybe 12 of them and the small tract they sit on.

Of the very conspicuous, large and expensive homes recently built in that area, many were built as speculation homes, are not yet occupied and may never be. It is curious how some folks invest in these second homes but rarely stay in them and put them up for sale shortly after they are completed. It seems, they realize after getting these homes built, that the 400 to 600 mile commute up there for a 2 day weekend is just not worth the trouble. A lot of them seem to be seeking some sort of fulfillment but find this big investment not so fulfilling. My work takes me into some of these second home developments and from my experience, I can state those developments contain many disappointed and downright bitter owners, but hey, its the American way to get taken by some slick talking developer. And another curious element, many of the homes were built by older retired folks who do not live long after they have paved over their little piece of paradise, hence the resale signs.

And personally, since I work from my residence, the ruination of the country is largely being 'fueled' by those who feel compelled to live in a scenic location and commute 75 to 100 miles daily back and forth to work. Increasing energy costs may put even more of those mountain houses up for sale and at bargain prices.”

“One further word about those mountain homes that the slick talking developers and realtors get people into:

"Foreclosure" is rampant.”

““One further word about those mountain homes that the slick talking developers and realtors get people into:

"Foreclosure" is rampant.”

To me this is good news. As a person who has lived in the Greenville/Spartanburg, SC area for 35 years, I have seen this place grow to the point of ruination. The speculators are slapping down cheap crackerbox houses and shopping centers on every empty field they can get their hands on. They build a new mall every ten years or so and the old one withers away. It would be a pleasure to see some of the developers get hosed in a deflated real estate and housing bubble.”

“Urban sprawl is very frightening, very real, and very dangerous. I live here in Charlotte NC and the constant creep of sprawl into rural and wild areas is a maddening.

When I was a kid, it was a long drive through rural landscapes and forests to get from our home in Atlanta to our favorite places in the north Georgia mountains. Recently, my family and I stayed in Unicoi State Park, which was very isolated when I was a kid, and within minutes after leaving there we were seeing shopping centers and subdivisions and other types of development.

If there is to be no regulation of this rape of our land, then I can only hope for some kind of economic collapse.”

“it's the same way in south eastern PA. Philadelphia metro area is spreading like crazy.”

“Yet, on a professional message board I frequent, many college educated folks there believe in very large families (as if it is their devinely mandated responsibility, 9 children by choice, wow!)and argue vigorously that the world can easily support 50 billion people and the USA 3 billion people

well, maybe temporarily, but we would all be like rats in a cage.

Myself, I think if civilization survives, that 100 years from now the world's population will be back to about what it was 100 years ago, between one and two billion and so many houses and commercial developments can be erased from the landscape.
last edited: 6/15/05 7:16:30 AM”