Panthertown Valley.

“Any of you folk ever spend time in Panthertown Valley? Last September I took a two-night, three-day trek in there. Set up my tent near the shelter not far from Granny Burrell Falls. Used that a my base camp while I tromped all over the area. I was in there all alone, since the Forest Service had posted it as "closed" due to one of those horrible rainstorms last year that did so much damage. It had reopened, but the signs had not been taken down. So I quite literally had the place all to myself. Each night the coyotes would come near my camp and sing for about an hour before fading away. Had my food stashed high in the trees. Didn't see any bears, but I did see one bear track--small one. Climbed all but one of the peaks I wanted to bag--Cold Mountain eluded me. I tried two different trails to the summit, but both of them had been obliterated by brush and wind damage, so I gave up. Other than that, I hit every peak on my list for that trip. (Yes, I'm a peak-bagger.)”

“I've been to Panthertown several times. To camp up atop Little Green is too sweet. Schoolhouse Falls is the coldest water I've ever encountered in summer! Great place.”

“For those that do not know:

Panthertown Valley is considered the 'Yosemite' of the eastern US

and was acquired by the USFS only recently, 1988 or so and still has substantial adjoining wild private land.”

“Awesome place!

*you make me homesick... again*”

“Do tell where it's at!”

“Panthertown Valley is the very upper watershed of the Tuckaseegee River on the NW flank of Toxaway Mountain about midway between Cullowhee and Cashiers, in Jackson County, NC.

Panthertown Creek runs for several miles thru this relatively flat valley at about 4,000 in elevation, is slow flowing boggy blackwater meandering between several exposed granitic domes rising upwards of 600' from the valley floor.
last edited: 6/15/05 7:37:30 AM”

“Hey Bob, I've heard of people getting lost in there (but I won't name names, he he hehe). Lots of little spider side trails that aren't mapped.

Cool place though for sure!
last edited: 6/15/05 7:40:03 AM”

“That's only 562 miles from home with 335 miles of I-81.

I really should get down that way once a year.”

“I've been there once. beautiful place. Lots of waterfalls, plenty of views, rock climbing. You can even slide down a falls into a pool.”

“I have read about Pantertown Valley for several years but never knew exactly where is was. I'm going to do a web search and see if I can find a map with the trailheads etc. Anyone know of a good guidebook that describes it? It sounds like a great Trail Talk fall trip.”

“been there once myself. It is a nice place to go. Good views, cold streams and nice swimming holes”

“solitary hiker...the only guide map thats really any good is by Burt Kornegay. He knows the area like the back of his hand.

you can find the guide at:
http://www.slickrockexpeditions.com/”

“where are the trailhead(s) - the FS maps are about useless for even showing where the trailheads are”

“there are two HOI

Cold Mountain Gap TH and Salt Rock Gap TH”

“link to trailhead description : http://www.bettercamper.com/show/mountain_link.pl/mountain_id/3723
last edited: 6/15/05 10:14:57 AM”

“I have no connections to Burt Kornegay but I'll plug his map of the area forever. The place spiders out so bad once you get into it the slick rock map is well worth the 5 bucks.

had search and rescue called for me on one occassion when a bushwack went terribly wrong.”

“HOI, this might help


Ref P-town valley
“hey folks , kinda eavesdropping on this...but i"ll tell you what I know having been here before.. Unless you have the map authored by Burt Kornegay you wont find the shelter on a topo...the correct trailhead to use for the shelter leaving a very short downhiller to the shelter is the Salt Rock gap trailhead....The key start point is Cashiers NC. Follow us-64 east for 2 miles to Cedar Creek rd. (SR-1120) plainly signed. Follow this left from 64 for 2.3 miles to Breedlove Rd (Sr-1121) on the right. Turn and follow this for about 3.5 miles to where it (the last time) became dirt....con't on till you reach the FS gate. From there its about a mile down to the shelter and huge camping area. Cold mtn gap is not the trailhead you want to use...once down in the valley its easy, very little elevation gain to see all the falls just basically the down getting in and a short up for out....hope this helps”
2socks
8:54:58 PM
5/19/04”

“Thanks for the links. Now that I see the first link I see that it was at the slickrock expedition site that I first heard of Panthertown Valley. I must have stumbled on that site 2 or 3 years ago while exploring the net. Couldn't remember where I saw the info.

Since Panthertown Valley is in the National Forest it's probably full of hunters in the fall. Not sure I would want to go in at that time but Jan-May would probably be nice. maybe we should do a TT weekender this winter?”

“Carlette: the first time I went into Panthertown I went swimming in the huge pool below Schoolhouse Falls! WHY IS IT SO COLD??!! I could not get used to it and had to climb out after about only ten minutes of swimming. Oy!

I cannot say enough good things about that Kornegay Map. Get it! It's priceless if you're going into Panthertown! There are so many game trails and partially abandoned trails, and enormous spider-webs of trails that if you don't have that map you will get utterly flipping lost. The best $5 you will ever spend on a hiking map of a specific area.

And, no, I don't know Burt Kornegay and I am not related to him. He just makes a kicass map.

This is the shelter in Panthertown Valley. Really nice and large. Wood floor with tin roof. I pitched my tent nearby across the trail from it.

”

“Pretty much all of the trails in Panthertown are unnamed and left over roadbeds and trails from earlier timber operations, Duke Power line projects, the abandoned white pine xmas tree farm, and the half-hearted (thankfully) effort to sell housing lots there. The National Forest Service has a very detailed plan to create a signed, blazed, and maintained system of trails in Panthertown, and of course are waiting for the needed funds which may or may not arrive.

One of my favorite views. At the clifftop on Little Green Mountain.

”

“I have a niece living in n.c. I never knew n.c. had so many good wilderness areas--”

“Panthertown does not have a wilderness designation. Partly because of the power line that bisects it (Duke Power nabbed the land when they heard the National Forest wanted it--slammed in their power line, then gave the rest of the valley--sans their line--to the Forest Service and claimed what great environmentalist corporate citizens they were), and partly because the Forest Service wants to have signed and blazed trails in there and they can't do that if it's desingated wilderness.

But, yes, NC has some absolutely wonderful wilderness areas. Middle Prong is a great one. Shining Rock is great--but can get horribly crowded. Linville Gorge is great. There are lots of near-wilderness types of areas here, too. The Black Mountains and Big Ivy come to mind. Both great areas where you can see stunning vistas, lots of wildlife, and find solitude.”

“I spent 10 days in that area in 2002. Gorgeous area. I camped at Pounding Branch Tent Campground in Toxaway and did a bunch of dayhikes to various waterfalls all over Transylvania County. 2 excellent references for dayhikes are "North Carolina Waterfalls" by Kevin Adams, and Waterfall Rich's website, NC Waterfalls.

I took over 1000 pics, and here's one of Schoolhouse Falls. If you're really bored, I have 5 webshots albums of that trip.”

“This area?

”

“yep - that's the area as far as I can tell by the trailhead navigation instructions”

“That area.”

“The state you show in your profile, as well as your alias suggest you are from New York

which progressively established the vast Adirondack and Catskill Parks, if memory seves me correctly, what back in the 1880's and did it in a grand fashion with some 3 to 4 million acres of state owned land now in Adirondack alone.

NC, not so progressive in this regard, fought hard in 1912 just to acquire 1200 or so acres at the summit of Mount Mitchell and has managed to get that area now up to about 1800 acres.

The slogan for decades here, regarding public conservation efforts was:

"Not One Cent of Tax Money For Scenery", the visitor's center of the local national forest ranger district's office has an entire wall of copies of editorials and photographs of billboards with that statement from the early 20th century decades.

Fortunately the federal government did much to acquire wild lands in this state and now the state of NC is attempting such acquisitions as well

and all this 'sorry' mountain land which was historically considered almost worthless now sells for thousands of dollars per acre even in large tracts and many of the NC wildernesses are fast becoming fragmented and isolated by golf courses and shopping centers.”

“Lack of public lands locked away as protected and/or wilderness sucks.”

“Before going to Panthertown Valley, bear in mind that it is one of the most consistently yearround foggiest, drissliest, rainiest places on Earth - 80 to 100+ inches of rain per year there.”

“That's just about par for course over most of southern appalachia isn't it?”

“doesn't sound that bad - doesn't the sods get more than that?”

“Location - Annual rainfall in inches - elevation in feet
Asheville 38 2242
Marshall 40 2050
Canton 42 2662
Enka 42 2050
Hot Springs 43 1332
Hot Srings #2 44 1480
Swannanoa 44 2240
Silva 45
Bent Creek 47 2110
Fletcher 4E 47 2160
Waynesville 47 2658
Asheville AP 48 2140
Bridgewater 48 1150
Conover Oxford 48 883
Jefferson 48 2770
Rhodhiss 48 976
Hickory Lenoir 49 1200
Black Mountain 50 2290
North Fork 50 2480
North Wilkesboro 50 1120
Wilkesboro 50 1040
Banner Elk 51 3750
Cullowhee 51 2192
Sparta 51 2960
Casar 52 1120
Fletcher 3W 53 2070
Franklin 54 2080
Transou 54 2875
Hendersonville 56 2160
Idlewild 56 2900
Marion 56 1425
Murphy 56 1640
Glendale SP 57 2910
Oconaluftee 57 2040
Celo 59 2680
Tapoco 60 1110
Grandfather Mtn 62 5300
Andrews 63 1750
Tryon 65 1075
Blowing Rock 66 3850
Brevard 67 2155
Pisgah Forest 67 1210
Buck Forest 74 2515
Cashiers 75
Coweeta 75 2249
Rosman 82 2200
Highlands 84 3840
Lake Toxaway 92 3080

So Lake Toxaway, just across the hill from Panthertown Valley has the highest rainfall in WNC of the reporting locations. But fog and drissliness are not necassarilly reflected in total rainfall and it is true that the SW slopes of many of the higher mountain ranges of WNC might average 100+ inches of rain per year.
last edited: 6/16/05 4:30:47 PM”

“I've encountered some overcast days there, but mainly had sun! No rain, at all.

Lake Toxaway rain levels almost reach the definition for temperate rain forest, doesn't it?”

“Brevard/Pisgah Forest 67. That would seem about right because Greenville/Spartanburg gets about 50-60 inches a year and we're 40 miles as the crow flies away. What I didn't realize was that Pisgah Forest was a thousand feet lower in elevation than Brevard. I don't think this is right. There is no way you lose a thousand feet between the Brevard courthouse and the turnoff on 276 to Pisgah Forest. That's a typo right?”

“Good grief! I drove through Cashiers today on my way home from Standing Indian. In just the year since I have been, the commercial development there is horrifyingly amazing! There's a whole new enormous shopping center that wasn't even broken ground when I was there last. Now it's full of shops and cars and people. I despair over this freaking urban sprawl. It seems totally unstoppable.”

“Those rich yankee retirees have to have somewhere to shop. And if the developers didn't build the malls they'd get homesick and move back to New Jersey or Boca Raton.”

“Yep, I was thru there about a month ago and to think, all that construction in Cashiers is in the Chatooga River headwaters, so much for a Wild River.”

“yep, the Forest Service in NC has really caved in to pressure from the big money developers.”

“The US Forest Service in NC has not necassarily 'caved in' to big time developers.

The development is occurring on private land often intermingled with USFS land and the vast majority of that private land has been private since the original state grants, almost all of WNC was granted resulting in no public domain being left in the year 1900 (there are a very few cases of the USFS exchanging small tracts such that slivers of formerly USFS became a part of a development).

The last few decades, what limited monies that were allocated by the federal Land and Water Conservation Fund for USFS acquisition was discouraged from being spent in NC by the likes of Rep. Charles Taylor and one of NC's US Senators from 1972 thru 1992, Jesse Helms, the 'Jester', in fact, seriously proposed in the Senate on a number of occasions that signifigant portions of USFS lands be sold to developers, ranchers, timber speculators, etc..

Elizabeth Dole, one of the current NC Senators is no better for everytime she visits WNC she rallies with the pro-development lobbies.
last edited: 6/26/05 12:56:03 PM”