Freezer Bag Website Updates:

“Politicians, you goober. ;-)

So how did the first day working the new job go?”

“Good and bad. See the Get Up! thread.”

“Will do. :-)”

“I don't know about the rest of you but the first time I ever saw a cozy made of that insulating material was through Anti-Gravilty Gear...I think George, the creator of the company, is a really, nice guy...I've had some telephone conversations with him in the past.

Now, yes, I make my own cozies but I got the idea from Anti-Gravity gear...I think they are very inventive and fill a niche...

I dislike hearing their products called "rip-offs" but if that's how you feel, laquis, well, that's how you feel...and if I disagree with you well, then hell, I disagree with you...these are just opinions on a website...dots on a page, as prosecutor says...”

“I know I am biased when I say George is a very nice man (since he carries my book), but dang it, he is!
And as well pointed out: sure you can make the gear, but will you? For many people it is just simpler to buy it made-be it alchy stoves or cozies. It gets shipped to you, ready to use, and you don't hurt yourself making it, or have to make 5 versions to get it right!
I know with the UL cozy I am producing, I went thru many, many prototypes till I had a light bulb click on while backpacking. And yes, getting to the final version wasn't cheap! (And yes, a person could take my idea and do it themselves, but getting it right would not be cheap ;-)”

“laqtis was the same guy sneering at 'Pepsi' alcohol stoves on a previous thread, so that gives you a good idea of where he's coming from.”

““i've tried some of the ziplock recipes but no matter how I make them they are too chewy and they clog me up. Is it easier if I cut out the zipper part before eating them?”

Well, duh, Nigal ;-) It's a meal not a drug baggie.

Lol!!”

“Nigal, If you leave the zipper on, when it comes out it will already be bagged up and all you do is zip it shut and carry it out.”

“Brings new meaning to 'blue bagging' :-O
Lol....”

“"Poor Q flip flops as much as some pols."

Please explain; I feel that I've been pretty consistent. It's easy to drop comments like that without any support; prolly shouldn't hold my breath for you to come up with something other than the usual shuck and jive.


"I have learned many people will not try to make gear. That's OK."

I agree with that. Some people like to make gear, some don't, can't, or won't. I like making gear, personally. I have some really good trial and error stories.

"Perhaps Q thinks AntiGravity needs to have a bunch of low paid Mexicans making their products?"

Nothing I have said implies that even in the slightest. In fact, my comments reflect that it's a pretty small operation; my assumption, but I really haven't seen anything otherwise.

Labor costs are saved by doing the work yourself. That's what makes this item such a boon. One person prolly could make a hundred of these things in one day. That's a grand worth of product. You could have a stockroom full of the stuff, with just under two weeks invested.

I looked into putting these things out myself back then. I balked, then a few months later Gravity has them.

Not implying anything other than when I looked into it back then, I could honestly put them out myself for about 50-75 per. I think I even came down to that even at 1.00, the profit margin is enormous.

"They charge a fair price."

Like I said before, tear it up; it's not my money wasted.

"I dislike hearing their products called "rip-offs" but if that's how you feel, laquis, well, that's how you feel...and if I disagree with you well, then hell, I disagree with you...these are just opinions on a website...dots on a page, as prosecutor says..."

Disagreement is fine and healthy to me. I hope your not offended; that is not my intention. My terms might seem a little "harsh" I guess; however, I am a very "discriminating" person when it comes to gear -- I expect a fair shake on average when it comes to purchases. While I have Anti in my sights right now, I am not holding them to anything more than what I hold all gear companies. If I think that REI latest pants are junk, overpriced and worthless, I'm going to share that viewpoint, just as I am now with Anti. People can make of it what it is.

"I know I am biased when I say George is a very nice man (since he carries my book), but dang it, he is!"

Sar -- I'm sure that he, and his company are great folks. That has nothing to do with my honest criticism about their product.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that your book has something to do with people doing "it" on their own? Wouldn't it be fair to say that part of your support is that commercial meals are of poor quality, overpriced for what you get?



All -- The thing that I honestly can't get past is that the some of the gear-maker people are saying that it's cool not to make your gear, but buy it from some where else at an inflated cost. Let's take into account that we are talking about one of the easiest piece of gear anyone, even those who would staple their hand to the floor could do.

Let's personal feelings aside this issue. This has nothing to do personally with them, it's their gear.”

“the price of the components doesn't determine the price of the product. supply and demand sets the price. as long as people are willing to pay $10 for a pot cozy then that's what it's worth. period.

i will also point out that for a small business it's the balance sheet that makes it or breaks it at the end of the day... not the margin on each single product.”

“"the price of the components doesn't determine the price of the product."

Well, yes it does to a point. How would know what your profit margin is, or investment in start up, unless you know how much the item is going to cost? Production costs of an item is vital in determining cost structure.

"supply and demand sets the price. as long as people are willing to pay $10 for a pot cozy then that's what it's worth. period"

I agreed with that statement hours before you posted it.

"i will also point out that for a small business it's the balance sheet that makes it or breaks it at the end of the day... not the margin on each single product."

Yep, and that's where some of this conversation get off course. My central point is that you can make it yourself for an eighth of what it would cost you to purchase.

I don't really understand just where the breakdown is here; isn't saving money a good thing?

Does anyone who supports over paying for this item in order to support "American", or small businesses go out of their way to patron Ford, or GM, instead of Toyota just to support homegrown business?
last edited: 2/22/07 9:41:05 PM”

“"“I just bought a 25 foot roll of two foot wide Reflectix insulation from Lowes. I got it to experiment with making some cozys and stuff but don't need 25' of it.
If anyone wants some, I'll sell it to you for $1 a running foot (2' wide) plus shipping (thats under my cost a bit).
Anyone know if Priority Mail boxes come in two foot lenghts? $3.85 shipping if they do.”
StoveStomper
8:37:23 PM
3/13/04"

"“nomad - I use an old insulated 32 oz bottle carrier. Works great! Just stuf the bag init (might have to fold, depending on what yo use) and pour. Look at your local hardware store. Some have the insulated reflective material. Good luck!”
laqtis
9:51:57 PM
8/13/03"


"nomad, the one I showed you was made from a piece of an old army sleeping pad - also can be made from one of the Walmart blue foam pads

rough instructions, all measurements approximate based on using sandwich sized zip lock bags:

1.) cut a 7 by 12 piece of foam pad

2.) put two 1.25 inch cuts centered on each long side about 3.5 inches apart

3.) fold at the cuts then bend the edges toward each other and wrap some duct tape around the top to keep it in shape (alternative glue or hot bond the edges together) - hole at top is sort of elliptical

4.) trim excess off the bottom and duct tape the bottom up to the sides (3 strips across the bottom)

5.) wrap a loop of duct tape around the cozy near the bottom to keep the duct tape put across the bottom from coming loose

6.) cut a separate piece of foam to be the top (in use top is held on with a rock or something else heavy) - as a secondary use I cover the top with foil and it is the bottom reflector for my alcohol stove

the advantage to this type of cozy is that it supports the bag in the open position so that you can pour the boiling water in the bag without holding the bag with your hand - also useful for holding the bag to eat out of it - acts like a steep sided, narrow opening bowl - the food stays warm a long time so you can eat leasurely

ends up weighing about 2-3 ounces”
HogOnIce
6:37:28 AM
8/14/03"
last edited: 2/22/07 9:58:50 PM”

“Laqtis, what it really comes down to is this:

Most people are not crafty by any means, and even if they are, they don't have the time or desire to sit down and make stuff. A couple years ago I sold handmade soap and candles at Farmers Markets, and before that I sold hippie quilts at Grateful Dead shows, in the parking lots. I never had a problem getting customers. And yes, I charged way more than what it cost to make it-becuase......MY TIME WAS WORTH SOMETHING!! That was why my mark-up was often 800% or more! If you don't build in your time for making and selling the item, you might as well give it away as gifts.

I am all for people making gear on their own and I do it myself often, but I also realize that most people would rather open a box delivered by UPS ;-)”

“I am trying to learn how to sew so I can make a few things. I have already spent more money getting items together than if I bought something already made. Sometimes it is cheaper to buy than make your own stuff”

“"A couple years ago I sold handmade soap and candles at Farmers Markets, and before that I sold hippie quilts at Grateful Dead shows, in the parking lots. I never had a problem getting customers. And yes, I charged way more than what it cost to make it-becuase......MY TIME WAS WORTH SOMETHING!! That was why my mark-up was often 800% or more! If you don't build in your time for making and selling the item, you might as well give it away as gifts."

So then why aren't people here buying pepsi can stoves then? When is the last time we have heard of someone buying a pepsi can stove around here? Perhaps I should do into business doing this. I should think that a pepsi can stove should fetch at least ten bucks.

You all would buy one from me, right?

Respectfully (and you pointed to this first above), I think that some around here are giving Anti a personal (and emotional) bias that they would not extend universally. I'm sure there are vested interests, like yours, and other reasons that are not allowing people to try and be as objective as they can about the gear in our field. Hey, I'm partial to every piece of gear I own, or like. But I will not let that bias hide any blemishes with it, or any other gear I "endorse".

I am the consumer of the product you and other people/companies are trying to gain as customers. Wise business owners listen to their market in order to grow. I am offering a realistic viewpoint. If we are going to debate the issue down to "some people don't wanna, some do", then I'm not going any further, because it's been covered already.
last edited: 2/22/07 10:32:43 PM”

“you would actually have a lot of competition selling pepsi can stoves. Check ebay out and see how many ebay stores sell them. AGG, Etowah and other places sell them also. heck even Sgt Rock sells his Ion stove online.

To be successful you have to make one that is better than someone elses. That gets down to how much water you can boil using the least amount of fuel.

I still have the one that the tincanstoveman sent out for free.”

“"To be successful you have to make one that is better than someone elses."

Or in this case, offer something that someone else does not sell, but could make themselves.

"you would actually have a lot of competition selling pepsi can stoves."

Of course and I don't really plan on it; just making the analogy in order to support my above claim/s.

On the other hand, perhaps I'll just go into business against Anti with the cozy's. I could put them out for about 5 bucks and still make a big profit. The lack of competition obviously has the market inflated.
last edited: 2/22/07 10:49:06 PM”

“You'd be surprised, Bill of MT sells like crazy his "White Box" stove. A great little stove I might add!
I have actually thought about selling stoves on my site, people ask me for them! It shocks me also, but as I said: most people don't have the time or the knowledge.
And as Ewker points out, getting into gear making isn't cheap. Not everyone has 3 sewing machines and a serger plus all the sewing gear needed. Nor do they have a house full of tools to borrow. Once you add in buying say, a sewing machine to make a silnylon stuff sack, you could have bought 10-20 of them!”

“"I have actually thought about selling stoves on my site, people ask me for them! It shocks me also, but as I said: most people don't have the time or the knowledge."

Paying for convenience is what this country has become. I'm not surprised and I have no idea why you keep going back to this.

This is a backpacking board, composed mostly of veteran bpers, not some tourons, newbies, or something; I think it's unfair for you to keep trying to compare the two.

"And as Ewker points out, getting into gear making isn't cheap."

In this case, it is. Like I said before, I speak from experience. I looked into the whole thing for this same product line, before Anti put it out. I don't know why that keeps getting lost here.

I have tested the viability of two new bping products within the last year. So IMHO, it's all about how much it's going to cost in order to get your going. A simple operation can be had with very little overhead, as you well know.
last edited: 2/22/07 10:58:40 PM”

“On the other hand, perhaps I'll just go into business against Anti with the cozy's. I could put them out for about 5 bucks and still make a big profit. The lack of competition obviously has the market inflated.
last edited: 2/22/07 10:49:06 PM”
laqtis
10:44:28 PM
2/22/07

go for it!! I bet you find out that your not making as much as you think you will. People usually forget to add their time working on their products into the total cost”

“"go for it!! I bet you find out that your not making as much as you think you will."

If I could get one dollar less per than Anti, I've made my money per, time included, but that's not really the point.

I'm pretty much done at this point. I'll keep checking back a few times through the night while I pack for this weekends trip; perhaps something new will come along.”

“"This is a backpacking board, composed mostly of veteran bpers, not some tourons, newbies, or something; I think it's unfair for you to keep trying to compare the two."

Sure it is, that must be why there are so few "hi, I want to get into backpacking" threads that pop up rarely. Lol. (This is of course is irony, on any outdoor forum you often see these threads. Especially here.)

Not sure what you are aiming at besides trolling, not really sure how to interpret your replies either-they don't always make sense.

But as to making gear: by all means, make it and sell it. The market is not overwhelmed by any means. But as for selling..well, price is everything, and if you don't price it right, you won't stay in business long. Taxes, postage cost, and the cost of being in business run high. I help run an online Asian importer website as my day job, and rarely does one make all the postage out of the cost you charge customers. Even with the book I sell, when I ship out of the US, I take a good hit-that is part of doing business though-and my profit covers that extra postage every couple books.

And hey, in the end, if people were not buying the products, they wouldn't be being sold. Yes, a person could make a cozy for $5 and make a profit, but it also takes time to make the stock, store it, advertise it, run EBay sales or a website, find customers and fulfill the orders. And while in theory it is easy, it can be boring to do. So hence, the company that is well known putters along making a decent profit, honestly earned.

Now, go pack your bags and quit trolling.”

“Back Back on topic:

Philsson...could I snag one or two of your photos for my website?
Thanks!”

“LOL!

well i have one of the agg cozies... got it because i liked the design with the grommets on the corners and the metal tape on the edges. i got it to cook stuff from sarbar1's cookbook. now recently i made a trowel out of titanium sheet so i am pretty sure it's within my skill set to make the cozy. i just had no interest in the project other than just using the thing.

i like the use of the paper clip on the cozy in the photo. hold the bag closed and the freezer bag in place.

HEY MEANGREEN: Post a photo of you potty cozy or whatever we were calling it. funniest damn thing i saw bping last year.”

“JS, I have one of their cozies also. Nice product for the price IMO.

Q, have a good trip.

Phil, did you post a recipe for the Sushi Bowl on here before? if not I would like a copy. That looks really good”

“Making home made stuff can be easy and cheap if you know how to do it and if you have "left over" stuff laying around. Little or no investment. Then your time can be "hobby time" Manufactures don't have that option, unless!
DATELINE WILMINGTON SOUTH CAROLINA " Antigravity gear employee aressted for stealing insulation from a construction site dumpster!”

“Sarbar, don't be so hard on Q.
Expecting him to 'make sense', oh my!
LOL”

“Yes Sir, Stovie ;-) lol...

As for the recipe, here it is:

Sushi Bowl:


In a quart freezer bag put:

1 cup instant white rice
1/2 cup dried veggies
1-2 sheets nori seaweed, cut into 1 inch squares
1/2 tsp sugar

Also take 1-2 packets soy sauce

In camp, add 1 1/4 boiling water, stir and let sit for 10 minutes in a cozy. Add soy sauce to taste.

Serves 1

From my website, now go visit, you crumb bums ;-) http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/index.htm”

“sarbar, is that in your book?

nori seaweed??? where do you get that..Wild Oats maybe
last edited: 2/23/07 9:31:39 AM”

“I don't think it is, but it should have been ;-)

Nori seaweed? Very easy to find! You can get it in the skimpy Asian section at any major supermarket, it is what you use in California Rolls. We sell it at work, for people doing sushi :-)”

“it isn't on your website either.

BTW did you try the mashed root recipe I sent you. I made them at home and they were good. Different taste but still good. I didn't try dehydrating them this time. It was more of wanting to see what they tasted like.”

“Ewker, it is on the website-it is in the vegetarian section :-) I think I'll post it also in the rice section, to make it easier to notice!

The mashed root recipe looks good, I meant to thank you! Hoping to have time soon to try it and dry it :-)”

“oh ok, I was looking under rice dishes.

I just looked under the vegetarian section..you got a lot of meals listed that are being passed over because of where they are located IMO
last edited: 2/23/07 3:47:42 PM”

“That is what I was thinking, I might incorporate them into the main sections and flag them as "veg" or "vegan". They get overlooked!”

“Ewker,
I took your suggestion, and incorporated the recipes into the normal sections. I am working on going thru and marking that the recipes are vegetarian and Low Sodium. Cleaned up the site a bit, that page was a bit messy, as it had so much information on it. I moved all the information on Low Sodium diets to the page on "how to use the website". Makes more sense!”

“I am sure that will help out. People who didn't frequent those pages will see lots of new(at least to them)and good recipes now. good job”

“i tried the sushi bowl. instead of the sugar i used rice vinegar, sugar, and kosher salt (the same as i would use for making vinegar for sushi rice). eh, let's just say it wasn't my cup of meat. good and different but not my thing i guess.”

“Jimmy San..it is definitely an "accustomed" taste ;-) My friend Catzia, who gave me that recipe has shall we say, an interesting diet. She puts me to shame in the weird foods that she eats ;-)”

“I've finally made the leap and received the book - ordered from antigravity and received in 2 days along with a dehydrator cookbook - THANK YOU! Sarbar, I'm inspired and love seeing a summer's worth of trip food lined up and labelled in pantry bins.

I've been packaging all weekend since the weather s^cks. It was super fun to shop for ingredients at my grocery store and I'm headed to Trader Joe's later today to find some of the tougher stuff I want.

And I finally fired up the dehydrator. Doing ground beef today.”

“dhutch1, I'd say hamburger is one of my favorite items to dry. I have a couple lbs of it in my freezer right now. I even use it at home.
If you haven't seen my drying section on the website, take a look :-) I added a bit more last month, with more pictorials. It is in the Gear section.”

“Thank You Sarah for the autographed copy! This outdoor chef is looking forward to trying out your recipes. Your book is a trailbreaking approach to gustatorial bliss! Excuse me while I digest freezer bag cooking in its entirety!!!

urppP!”

“Looks like the poodles ganged up on the boy.”

“Sorry -- that's an insult to poodles, VBG ---”

“Tail-breaking??”

“Sarbar, is that you that the current backpacker magazine cites as the place to learn about freezer bag cooking? Nice article and recommendation of your site, if so. Bob”

“Yes it is! (Just so everyone knows...the issue hasn't come out yet on the newsstands).

I haven't got to see the mention yet...waiting for my non-cheap friend's issues to show up in the mail...sigh! Kristin had contacted me this summer, she is a very nice lady :-)”

“Wooooo Hooooo.....go sarbar1!!!!!!!!!!
...it is an awesome site!!!...I was there yesterday!!!”

“what is the site address?”

“http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/index.htm

I have the book and it is great!!! Way to go Sarbar!”