Talk about a military mess ...

“Not sure that China can afford to go to war though. It's military is becoming more capable, but it still only spends a fraction of what America does on arms.
It invades Tiawan, then all it's global markets for those Chinese manaufactured goods disappears and China's economy goes into tailspin.
China does have too much to lose by going to war, but looking stronger gives it more power on a global stage. It also puts more pressure on Taiwan to give more in talks about the future of the island.
I think the Chinese threat is further down the line, maybe 15 or 20 years out - once the oil starts getting really scarce. Ya wanna hope real alternatives to oil are coming into play by then.
last edited: 6/27/05 11:32:06 AM”

“Not to meantion the chaos that would break out in the checkers industry.”

“"When you live 30 miles from the largest AF base in the nation, you can be pretty sure you’ll be one of the first ones hit."

Dang Nigal, you just made my day!!

We can produce our own fuel, Bio Diesel, truely locally.

The trick is to keep the mega-corporations out of it.

The profits and production can and should be kept as local as possible.

The petroleum industry must be made to shrivel in the interest of the people.”

“"Dang Nigal, you just made my day!!"

so as the missiles are coming down on DC know that I will be right behind ya by about 20 seconds. Hey, wait up for me and we can pass through the pearly gates arm in arm.”

“Those Bozos would probably miss D.C. and hit Baltimore anyway.

What y2 said, war with China just ain't gonna happen.

They have too much to lose........like the over seas markets for their cheap goods.....
the house of cards collapses.”

““Those Bozos would probably miss D.C. and hit Baltimore anyway."

Isn't Baltimore close enough that it'd be destroied too with DC? Come on MarkO, don't make me go to heaven my self! Boy, they'd be screwed. We already know we can hit chinese targets (Chinese Embassy in Bagdad or was it Cabal?).”

“Belgrade, I think.
You remember that warmonger Clinton?

Kabul, Afganistan??

The Dubya administration is a cabal.”

“A conspiratorial group of plotters or intriguers.”

“That pretty well fits Comcast too.”

“And Time/Warner.”

“OR FOX NEWS !!”

“There will be a war with China. If you look at all of the wars in Europe and Asia since, well, since a long time ago, they were mainly fought for space and resources. Germany fought WW2 for Leibenshraum (Living room) Japan fought for resources. They have no natural resources, they needed to go elsewhere. Germany has no petroleum so they took Romania and the Oil fields of Eastern Europe. China's biggest resources is its people and they have no problem using them up like a commodity. Right now there is no way to move those troops overseas in large numbers, but that day will come. Think of an Airbus A380 in Military configuration. Something along the lines of 1000 troops per plane. China could roll over Russia if it decided to do so. No other nation in greater asia could stand against them in a conventional ground war. The Chinese are patient, they will wait, and when they move, we will be in trouble.”

“I think the risks are further down the line. You may well have another democracy movement in China ahead of any breaking point though.”

“Assuming we are likely to face China soon, would you rather see a pacifist in office, or a warmonger at that time?”

“Too big an assumption Sarge. And I don't think there have been any Pacifist US Presidents. Just some reckless ones with bad policies.
Are there any Presidents in recent memory who haven't used the military?”

“I didn't say there were. Kerry was a pacifist - although he pretended he wasn't.”

“Glad we can rely on your judgement on these matters sarge.”

“What's that supposed to mean?”

“* MORE PERSONAL INSULTS INSTEAD OF STICKING TO THE ISSUES FROM A LIBBY *”

“Sarge - if you say stupid, unfounded things then you need to be called on them.”

“Be specific.”

“no sarge - you're right, it's just personal insults.”

“Anytime I ask for specifics ... the person runs the other direction.

Never fails.

typical”

“I wonder if you read even half the things you post sarge.”

“no y2 - you're right, Kerry wasn't a pacifist - he was just against warfare.”

“No Sarge - he was against the war in Iraq. He said there were attrocities committed in Vietnam, which there were. You may not agreed with his views, but he's certainly not a pacifist.
You can argue that Clinton could have done more to get Osama, but he wasn't a pacifist.
You can argue that Bush Snr should have got Saddam the first time, but he wasn't a pacifist.”

“y2 - I look at what I post - and I look at the reponses. I posed a hypothetical question, and instead of answering, which would put you in a situation where you might have to eat your words - you avoided it and turned it around into a personal attack. That's what I read. Do you read what you write y2?

* LOL - Kerry wasn't a pacifist?!?! y2 - you're on drugs. The only person who disputes that is Kerry (and you apparently).”

“Kerry ran from Vietnam - he got out as soon as he could.

He spoke against Vietnam before he went in!

Did you know that y2? Obviously not since you're mentioning this "attrocities" crap.”

““Assuming we are likely to face China soon, would you rather see a pacifist in office, or a warmonger at that time?”

I would rather see a peacemaker in charge than some dolt who profits from war-making as we have now.

I think the Chinese need dining room.

Chinese roll over Russia?
Uh........the Russians have way more nukes than the Chinese, and it don't take much anyway to be a deterrent.

Check

Making war is very expensive.....ya gotta feed those guys........every day......sewage, etc.”

“Yeah, I heard Bush needed some extra cash so he started a war. Have you seen that new house he just bought with all that oil he stole?”

“MarkO - We are at war with China. China isn't going to listen to negotiations. Do you deny any of that?

If not, you think a "peacemaker" is going to do anything about an attack?

What?

Maybe Osama will negotiate with us too, right MarkO?
last edited: 6/27/05 2:07:15 PM”

“Hey, my ex-brother-in-law got out of Vietnam as fast as he could.

After his year he was one of 15 of the original 170 in his company who hadn't either been killed our wounded bad enough to be sent home.

Anyone in their right mind would take that ride home and try to forget what they went through.”

“"Maybe Osama will negotiate with us too, right MarkO?"

I don't know pal, maybe you had better axe Joe Momma.

Don't be a flame-baiter, G.I. Schmoe!!”

“MarkO - You skipped the part about him protesting the war before he went in.

Ok, skip the question then if it's easier. It's cool.”

“"Ok, skip the question then if it's easier. It's cool."

Relax, left tennant!

Kerry protested before going?
SO WHAT ???

There were plenty of guys who protested before, during and after.

There is and has been nothing morally or ethically wrong with protesting war any day of the week.”

“So the point is to say he was against Vietnam because of the "attrocities" he witnessed there is BOGUS!!!”

“Anyone decent who knew the history of the foreign domination of Vietnam had plenty of ammunition to be anti-war.

Yet, some still served......go figure.
Not everyone involved in fighting a war loves what they do.”

“Nevertheless, the point to say he was against Vietnam because of the "attrocities" he witnessed there is BOGUS!!!”

“Never the less, my point is that one did not have to witness or even hear about atrocities to be against that war.

It was wrong on principle.”

“Sarge - your question is irrelevant. There have been no pacifist US Presidents. I guess Carter comes the closest, but even he sanctioned an albeit failed mission to rescue the hotages.”

“The "pacifist" tag is just another neo-con talking point, buzz-word, what-have-you in the propaganda campaign.”

“Thanks MarkO for that offtopic dodge.

y2 - Guess what. We're not going to elect past presidents. We're going to elect a new president in a few years, hence the question. Maybe for you I should ask a special "play" question: y2, if you could go back in time and elect a president, who would it be?”

“MarkO - Believe it or not, "pacifists" do exist. They're not like leprichans and magic dragons.”

“Yes Sarge, they do exsist.

There were a couple of catholic nuns who just got out of prison for bashing military planes with hammers and splashing them with their blood.

Those gals are hardcore pacifists.”

“Frankly, I would not limit my answer to Sarge's question based on the issue that we may some day go to war with China. all presidents are supposed to possess the capability to use force if it's necessary to defend this nation. That would have included Kerry, despite your prejudices towards him, Sarge. Your statement is speculative and not based in reality, simply because the situation of Kerry making a decision like that never materialized. I would like to see a president who is more capable on a broader scale than the current administration, in more areas than just the possibility of a war that doesn't exist in reality at the present time...”

“"MarkO - We are at war with China. China isn't going to listen to negotiations. Do you deny any of that?"

How did I miss this one?

I deny all of that!!!

We are not at war with China.

Only in your dreams, Major!!”

“Sarge - a pacifist President would NEVER be elected. Not in my lifetime anyway. Military credibility and the willingness to use force is a key factor in any US election.”

“We'll never put a man on the moon either.”