Day hiking: tougher than an overnight?

“For starters I am not talking about the rink-a-dink 1.5 one way nature trail that comes with a companion guide to tell you about the flora and fauna of the trail. I am talking about the 10+ miles round trip that climb and fall, twist and turn, ford and climb their ways through the surrounding wilderness. So lets hear what you have to say.

Myself, I believe it can go either way depending on the severity of the trail and other factors. But in the end I believe day hikers are slapped with a stigma that they are not tough enough as overnighters, a stigma that is utterly absurd. Day hiking is just as challenging and does not receive enough credit.”

“Either can be as tough or as easy as you wish to make them. I've been on easy overnighters and tough dayhikes.

There are plenty of dayhikers here, no stigma attached.”

“1) http://www.anycities.com/user/towndawg/vaganza.htm (40 miles in three days)

2) Walkingdude's LBL trip: 25 miles in one day.

What's your point exactly? Dayhikers are slapped with a stigma because a visible percentage ARE stupid, unprepared, Eddie Bauer type, tourons. For the record, this is www.thebackpacker.com -- maybe you were looking for http://www.dayhiker.com/ ?

- or -

http://www.onedayhikes.com/ ?







By the way, I'm just pulling your chain a little. Don't take offense.
last edited: 7/12/05 4:54:59 PM”

“Day hiking is just as challenging and does not receive enough credit.” hikinghoefs6

You're right. This forum should be changed to a dayhiking forum. Or we should go elsewhere.”

“Oh yea man those Eddie Bauer types, i hate those people so much. They get all dressed up like this is some sort of a fashon show and parade around in their new outfits and most likely they dont hike or they do like the first mile and call it quits. The dont know trail etiquette and are a general nusence. My dad an I hiked the Highline Trail in Glacier NP a few days ago and they were everywhere, like flies on a #&%!$ hill. I sort of wanted just push them over the edge and watch them splat down below on the road. Just kidding, but they get on my nervs alot. And it is those people who give day hiking a bad rep. I do both, overnight when i am with friends and day hike generally when i am with my family. But i just wanted to get some argument going and see what people had to say. Thanks for responding. And PS, no offense taken.
last edited: 7/12/05 5:07:25 PM”

“Someone rang?”

“dayhiking can easily be as challenging as an overnighter and many times more so. We did the entire Old Loggers Path as a dayhike, that is 32.5 miles in one day, but then we did the entire 60 mile Loyalsock Trail as a 3 day backpack trip. Both trips were challenging, but for different reasons. Several TTers have successfully dayhiked the Devils Path in the Catskills. That trail has over 18,000 feet of elevation change in 26 miles. Very challenging dayhike and one probably would not be able to do the entire trail with a full pack. Dayhiking allows you to do different things that backpacking does not allow you to do and viceversa.

I applaud everyone who gets out on the trail, no matter what/how/why they hike, as long as it is not destructive to nature or the trail. To each their own, hike for your own reasons and nobody should be critiqued for how or why they hike (read stikmon and stratusloop). If someone wants to hike 2 miles and camp just so they can play D&D in the back country and get really stoned, that is their deal and I'm glad they're getting out on the trail.

Long live Ebanott
last edited: 7/12/05 5:15:18 PM”

“i don't care wheather you're a day hiker or a backpacker...it still beats the hell out of siting in front of the tv playing video games all day...i say experience both worlds...do overnighters when you can but have fun with day hikes when time is tight”

“Give those Eddie Bauer folks a break, will ya???

Though I am not one of them, I do believe that I can understand them.

They spoke to an "expert" and got sold "hiking clothes".

MORE Power to them!

They left the couch, TV, laptop, gameboy and cell phone for a nature fix. :)”

“I guess. But they can be a pain sometimes, you have to admit that. But as people are saying, at least they are getting out there though and having some experience in nature.”

“I dayhiked Mt Whitney a few years ago when I could walk. Twenty-two miles in one day. Definately made for a long day.

My last hike was maybe 1 mile round trip and I nearly quit half-way. It all depends on your perspective...

”

“All hiking trails should be hard surfaced because the mud makes it difficult for Rollerblading! And backpackers should be banned. They are always in the way.”

“Very true, hahah. Mike its great that you have the power to get back out there and do what you love. I respect that very much. Keep it up.”

“Thanks! :)”

“Since I can't do overnighters every time I go out, I am content doing day hikes in between. I have done a couple of short 2-mile day hikes that seriously kicked my butt, and have done long overnighters that were a piece of cake.

So there ya go :-)”

“I like the majority response here: just getting out there should be good enough---it shouldn't matter for how many days or how many miles. As for the "Eddie Bauer" types....everybody has to start somewhere. I'm new to backpacking and consider it a given that I will make mistakes. But I doubt that very few people here started out as experts right off the bat so I say when you see "those types", remember how it was when you started and offer some tips or invite them on a hike. How do we get them to enjoy the outdoors if we look down at them?

(putting soapbox away now.)”

“Unbelievable.

Why does everything have to be labeled? I don't know where this thread came from or where it is going.

I backpack, dayhike, golf, fish, hunt, camp, bike, travel, sightsee, swim, ski, walk, run, work, play, blah, blah, blah...

People who put the microscope on everything are weirdos. When I was younger I played football, basketball, tennis, dodgeball, hide and seek, kick the can....”

“wow wow wow!! i dont know where this thread is going. no matter how far you hike, walk, stroll, or however you conquer your goal as long as you get out there and have your own experience is the ultimate. Sure there are short hikes that kick everyones ass, and there are long ones that seem like a stroll in the city park, and sure there are people who seem sort of out of place (aka Eddie Bauer cladd tourons) but as this thread has shown, is that the hiking community is braced with arms wide open ready for anyone who is willing to take a walk alongside Mother Nature. In the end, i just wanted to show that day hikers should garner the same respect as overnighters and that as the whole hiking community should have a sence of family, with little or no boundaries between how people enjoy the outdoors. Wilderness is in the eye of the beholder i guess.

peace”

“What is wrong with Eddie Bauer?”

“

In the end, i just wanted to show that day hikers should garner the same respect as overnighters and that as the whole hiking community should have a sence of family, with little or no boundaries between how people enjoy the outdoors.
hikinghoefs6

I disagree. In the 850-miles of trails in GSMNP, dayhikers do not get my respect. Too many of them are primarily interested in doing the miles and display little to no interest in what there is to see. Causal dayhikers leave too much trash and have little respect for the environment and for other hikers. Many of the dayhikers have no concern about the rules. Fortunately, some of them get tickets and pay fines, but too many of them simply have no respect for anything. While some backpackers bend the rules, too, a much greater percentage of them treat the environment in a more respectful fashion.”

“I am glad I don't hike where you do.”

“I think the point NS was making was that backpackers are usually pretty serious about their avocation (let's face it, you HAVE to be in order to be safe, etc.) and so therefore, are usually more sensitive to LNT principles, etc. Dayhikers, on the other hand, can often be very "casual" folks who haven't read up on the host of issues facing wilderness lovers... pollution, over-use, LNT, etc., so they are percieved to be more a part of the problem than a part of the solution.

I know I personally have made numerous somewhat negative references to "dayhikers" and how everyting is OK once "you're beyond the range of the dayhikers", that's because, to me, they "commercialize" the trails... they seem to want a rest area selling Jamba Juice 2 miles up the trail... and can you also sell sunglasses & sunblock because I forgot mine". I have seen A LOT of this near Lake Tahoe. That's a great, scenic, vacation spot that draws all types. They get there, decide they then want to go on a hike, but are very ill-prepared, litter the trails, etc. It just sorta goes against what we, as backpackers, are accustomed to.

Nothing necessarily negative... we just all have different priorities. This isn't really too different from a discussion of backpacking vs. driving your 4WD all over causing noise pollution, ruining the environment, etc. It's just a question of degrees.”

“Wanderer i've witnessed the lack of concern for the trails by equestrians as well. It sucks to come to a high mountain lake to find trees that have bark stripped off from where the horses were tied, and horse poop floating in the water and littering the entire bank that is also your only drinking water source for five miles around...oh and then there are the beer and soda cans tossed to the side of the trail as they meander along their ride...very few backpackers are willing to carry 6 packs of beer up a mountain and the ones i do know that have done so have always packed it back out.”

“I'm with you SC but let's qualify a bit more.

I put some (NOT ALL) of the "packers" in the same category as unscrupulous businesspeople... they are there to make a $$, they could care less about what havoc they wreak upon the environment. They aren't there because the LOVE the idea of getting out in nature, they're there because IT'S THEIR JOB, and they treat the environment accordingly.

On the other hand, you will find a lot (if not most) "equestrians" are just people... like you or me... who are out there enjoying (and respecting) the environment. They are two ENTIRELY diferent groups!”

“I think the point that NS was making was that backpackers are too serious.

He may be right.

I hardly ever see anyone when I go dayhiking or backpacking. In a crowd I can see where conficts would occur. They happen on this website everyday all day.”

“Ok so there are a few bad apples in the bunch. When taking a popular trail in GNP my dad and i were talking about the erosion problem the trail is facing due to over use and how that in a few years the whole path might be a giant boardwalk, which has its pros. But we came up with and idea, if the hike is too popular, why not put like a quota on it, or issue special permits almost like backcountry use in some areas. I know this may sound outragous, but if you look at it, people who would request a permit will be more times than not would be an environmentaly concious and responsible hiker. In the end the trail would recieve less use and less problems. Its just an idea, subject to debate, but we thought it sounded good.”

“Put in a few days of trail maintenance/construction if you want to feel like you are part of the solution.

Trail maintenance is fun and it does not matter if you are a dayhiker or backpacker.”

“trail maintenance would seem like the obvious solution, but there are trails that are completly hopless and it is those trails that i am talking about.”

“GSMNP requires confirmed reservations at all shelters and some backcountry sites. You must stay at a shelter or backcounty site. These locations have maximum limits. This cuts down on the number of people.

Additional trail quota systems would be complex to handle. Planning and implementation would be costly. If they were to connect Cataloochee Valley to I-40 as once planned, a control system would have to be implemented. The valley could not handle the number of people that would use this easy access. Fortunately, the park lestened to the people on this project and cancelled it.

They closed Ice Water Springs Shelter for over two years to all but through-hikers doing the AT. This was because of the mess left by people. Finally, some backpacking clubs solved the problem of sanitation. They now produce mulch and spread it.

But the horsemen clubs rule the park. It was basically set up to protect their interests. A large percentage of the trails have to be available for their use.

One or more trails now have partial broadwalks. One trail was improved to a gravel road status because of the decay. There has been a lot of trailwork during the past few years. Overpopulation and overuse can force limitations. I'm sure we'll see more changes in the future. But the horsemen rule!

There are other problems besides the trails. Examples include crimes of several types, non-native plants that need to be removed, boars, bear control, fish management and things attacking trees and plants. They have a small army of backcountry Rangers on patrol that most people don't know about and won't see. Each of the ten developed campgrounds has unique problems and each has impacts on the surrounding areas and trails. Even the 1,500 thru-hikers on the AT each Spring requires special projects, planning and actions. Around 85 backcountry rescues each year is a problem. Storms and resulting closures and clean-up has to be managed. The list goes on and on. It's late and I no longer remember what I'm trying to express.”

“If the trip can be done as a day hike, it is easier to do it that way than to carry a heavy backpack.

There's no way that it's easier to carry 25 or 30 pounds than to carry 10 or 15 on your back unless you're not comparing trips of the same distance and elevation gain.”

“in other words - a 10 mile day hike with 3000 feet gain is easier than a 10 mile backpacking trip with 3000 feet gain.

If you're comparing a 20 mile day hike with 6000 feet of gain to a 10 mile backpacking trip with 3000 feet gain - you're not comparing apples to apples.”

“if it can be done as a day hike, i prefer to do it that way because it's easier”

““if it can be done as a day hike, i prefer to do it that way because it's easier”
wingding0
11:10:48 AM
7/13/05
ignore this user

I'm the complete opposite. If I can make it a backpack than I will backpack it. It's more about getting a chance to sleep outside than anything else. I still dayhike, but I do it because I don't have enough time to fit an overnight in.”

“bitpusher nailed it on the first post response(and Town Dawg danced "angelically" on the head of the nail - and cracked me up on the next one).

There are some Dayhikes that are way to tough for me. I know a guy who did the Pemi Loop (Bacpacker magazine calls the summer version of it the 2nd toughest day hike in the country) in the dead of winter with snowshoes. (Miles listed for the loop: 31.5 miles, elevation gain: 9,150 feet, 20:20).

There is no way I could do that as a day hike. Even in the summer, it would totally bust my butt as a two day (i.e. single overnight) trip.”

“As far as environmental abuse, I would say (at least here anyway) that it’s 50/50 dayhikers and backpackers causing the damage. Take a walk down to Lake Colden and you will see that very few trees have limbs on them that are less than 20’ from the ground. That is because they were ripped down and burned in campfires. There are (where) also some privies that were missing doors for the same reason. I know this damage was not caused by dayhikers; why would they want to start a campfire? Campfires have now been banned in this area because of this. You will see just as many ignorant people that dayhike, as you will see that backpack.
last edited: 7/13/05 10:33:16 AM”

“amen lumberzac...i'm tired of seeing metal cans and glass bottles in camp fire rings...hey guys, metal and glass do not burn...pack it out”

“there are some hunters who leave messy camps as well. I have seen this first hand- a beautiful camp spot. I got there and it was taken up by a group of hunters (about 6 people) so I move on down the trail the next morningthat camp was a mess. They had made an enormous fire ring and left food cans (some full) around. TP in the bushes and big logs stacked up by the fire.”

“you talk about TP and logs in the same sentence...what kind of logs did they leave by the fire? LOL...that's pretty talented if they stacked them”

“Sounds messy if you ask me.”

“I have no problem with people who want to enjoy the outdoors.

I have a problem with azzholes and idiots.

Dayhiker, backpacker, horsepacker, hunter, mountain biker, fisherman, golfer, and tourist are not terms that are synonomous with azzholes or idiot.

If you think they are you are probably an azzhole or an idiot.

Flame on, as if I care.


Oh yeah, dayhiking is fun.
last edited: 7/13/05 11:10:43 AM”

“Nighthiking is cool too.”

“if you like nighthiking you sould check out the cades cove trip plan on the trips page”

“pedxing: "TownDawg danced "angelically" on the head of the nail"

Who? me? Angelic? heh.. wolf in sheep's clothing maybe.

lumberzac: "I know this damage was not caused by dayhikers; why would they want to start a campfire?"

Not everyone who sleeps overnight in the woods is a backpacker.

HumanPackMule: "Flame on, as if I care."

I miss you Mike. Have always loved your attitude. By the way, I need your mailing address. I forgot to ask for it.”

“Not everyone who sleeps overnight in the woods is a backpacker.

Yeah, some of them are lost dayhikers.
last edited: 7/13/05 12:48:56 PM”

“If you sleep at night, then you must be a dayhiker.”

“HPM: Some of them may have the backpacking equipment, but they are hardly worthy of the name backpacker.”

“To take a 180 here and sort of talk about a whole new topic almost, Bear Bells 100% useless and 110% anoying?!”

“Not to the bears. The bells let them know when dinner is served.”

“hahah very true. well put”

“Well, I for one am glad that the National Park Service finally changed their public philosophy on bears..”