Caldwell Creek--GSMNP

“Got into the Cataloochie area around 10pm and the Vehicle camping area was jam packed...it was a redneck woodstock...i got the 2nd to the last spot, and set up my hammock and went to sleep. After a cool night, I set up my gear and looked forward to hitting the trail and hopefully finding the Sag Branch Poplar.
I got onto the boogerman trail and after an hour playing with my GPS I've decided to rename it Helen Keller. The temp started to rise..and i continued around the loop. Nothing spectacular, not alot of rhodies...lots of down logs off trail...rock walls, old homestead.

The temp on my thermometer said high 90's and with the disappointment about not being able to find anything with my blind GPS, i decided to abort and go home and get into some A/C before i became a kindred spirit with the AZ homeless.
I hit the Caldwell Creek Trail and headed back to the trail head.

Let me say that the MF'ing horse riders have ruined this trail....it was 5 miles of moist, hot, #&%!$ty, ankle to shin deep mud.

The trail is so torn up and ravine like in most areas...with the heat....i was in a really really bad mood. I prayed that i didn't meet any horses on the way back the the trailhead...i would have made a royal ass of myself to a innocent stranger....covered in muddy crap to my shins after even the best mudhole hopping..i made it back the the car...washed my shoes and gaiters off in the campground washsink...i car toured the old buildings in the area..took some pics...and drove back to Charlotte. The Cataloochie area is overcrowded and ruled by horses and RV's. It'll be a long time before i try this area again...hidden jewel my @$$”

“Go in winter to avoid crowds or way far away from roads other times”

“Did you even make to the Boogerman Trail? You have to slog through the horse-ruined Caldwell Fork Trail before you get to the Boogerman Trail, which is foot travel only. Yeah, horses do screw up a trail--fiercely. It's pretty horrible. I think at least half the horse access in the Smokies should be closed. They do so much damage to the trails that horses should be barred permanently from sections of the park.”

“Bob Smith - No more slogging from the road to the Boogerman Trail. They now have a sidewalk! At least, that's what I call it. I counted at least 10 sections of heavy planking installed on the trail(last fall) to get one through that area without getting mud on freshly polished boots. It's now just a walk in the park.

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BAN THE ELK!
last edited: 7/25/05 6:54:39 AM”

“My solution, permanently close the 30 or so miles of roads in Cataloochee Valley to motor vehicles at the park boundary and allow the horses only on and near those closed roads and allow the elk herd there to be allowed the space save the hikers and the few that would still horse ride if not allowed to drive into the center of the valley. I find the attitude of horse riders generally worse than the horse deposits on the trails. This would tremendously reduce the fisherman pressure as well allowing those willing to walk 10 miles to have a natural fishing experience.
last edited: 7/25/05 7:13:14 AM”

“LoneSurveyor - The Park belongs to the horsemen. They have a ruling influence. I've been told that the Park is obligated by the original agreement to keep a large, specified percentage of the trails open to horseback riding. Local companies have poured many dollars into some of the horse camps, like at Big Creek.

Incidently, muddy bogs were removed on the trail to CS#40 several years ago. It is now a road and could be a great highway with some blacktop.”

“Thanks for the TR OPIE.”

“Yes, thanks for your trip report, OPIE. Your experience was interesting.

OPIE or Bob Smith - Do either of you have directiona to the Sag Branch Poplar, other than with a GPS?”

“HAHAHAHAHA....when i saw that planking on the first .25 of the trail I thought they were trying to make it wheelchair accessible. But the 12 feet in between the plank sections are horrible mudpits. Then the planking disappears, and water bars pop up...and the mud builds up behind them and water sits stagnant. Then they have longer wooden sections that have 4 pieces of landscape timbers to make a box, and larger planking in the middle. The mud is 4 inches deep in these, and deeper around them.

I slogged to boogerman..happy to be off a shared trail..THE F"ING HORSES ARE GOING ON THIS TRAIL TOO. The signs say no horses, but i guess they can't read. There were less signs of them..but they were on it. Hoof prints, and horse apples.”

“I guess this means I will wait until fall or winter to go up there.”

“OPIE - I just sent an e-mail to GSMNP with the following:

"Subject: Horses on Boogerman Trail - Why?

Message: From "Caldwell Creek--GSMNP"
http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/39406,-1.php#1220748
"I slogged to boogerman..happy to be off a shared trail..THE F"ING HORSES ARE GOING ON THIS TRAIL TOO. The signs say no horses, but i guess they can't read. There were less signs of them..but they were on it. Hoof prints, and horse apples.”
OPIE
11:18:23 AM
7/25/05"

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Their literature said that it may take seven days for a response.
last edited: 7/25/05 12:18:53 PM”

“what a bummer the trails were all torn up. i hate those trails, especially when you actually have to get off the trail for the horses as they come thundering through.”

“What I hate most is the hundreds of horse flies that try to bite your leg off.”

“Horses and Backpackers do not mix well.
I try to stay away from 'shared' trails.”

“Shared camps are even worse.”

“I thought about complaining to the park...but i was a little too...heated”

“They have a form....


put your complaint here []

Complaints must be legible to receive action.”

“Horsepackers aren't so bad.














But you have to baste them, and cook them a long time over a low fire.”

“
Caldwell Fork Trail Sidewalk”

“I was in the GSMNP last week. I was there for our annual family reunion...which mostly consists of a bunch of folks in a couple of large adjoining chalets grilling out and enjoying a few adult beverages. Most of 'em will only hike a couple of miles but we have an understanding that I get 1/2 day to myself for a decent dayhike. So I went off to Cosby to head up Mt. Cammerer. There were a few folks in the campground but once I hit the trail (Low Gap to AT to Mt. Cammerer spur) I didn't see another soul. It was hot and humid on Low Gap, like hiking through warm bath water. But once I got up on the AT it cooled off a bit. It looked like they had just recently cut back the laurel on the AT. I might have otherwise needed a machete. :) I had the Cammerer lookout tower all to myself and spent a couple of hours there before heading back.”

“nowslimmer...i should have taken pics of the mudholes....but i was trying to be optimistic with my pics..and refused to take any”

“OPIE - I understand about the mud. You gave a good description about it. I have experienced plenty of it at Cataloochee myself.

The picture was taken early this Spring. The planking was placed there by some hiking groups, not the Park. I had high hopes for it, so I was sorry to hear about your experience.

I enjoy visiting the canopy tent of the host in the developed campground there around 7-8 A.M. I enjoy their free coffee and usually get to talk with the maintenance workers and, sometimes, the area Ranger. Usually, I can learn the local trail conditions by talking with them.”

“

Thank you for notifying us about the horse use on the Boogerman Trail.
People often violate the backcountry rules.

We have forwarded the information to the enforcement rangers responsible
for Cataloochee area.
Park Ranger
George Minnigh

I have met George Minnigh. He is a great person. During 20+ years at GSMNP he has had positions in charge of Cosby, Big Creek, Cataloochee and more. He is now at Sugarland Headquarters. I met him on the trail two or three years ago along Noland Creek. He was in charge of updating the Park's Trail Map. He informed me that he was going to change the listing for CS#66, Lower Noland Creek, to "Boats only." And it did change on the 2003 map.

In early Spring of 1961 I was camping at Big Creek trying to lose some weight before starting some backpacking. He came to my campsite and very nicely reminded me that two weeks was the limit for consecutive camping at one campsite. He asked me to either leave after my pre-paid days expired, or to at least change my name so that he would not encounter trouble with his boss.

If I have a opportunity, I'll check with the Ranger at Cataloochee in a week or two.”

“"1961" should be "1991."”

“So what was your name before 1961?”

“"Private"”

“I sent another e-mail to Ranger Minnigh to thank him for his prompt reply, to inform him that I would be trying to check with the Ranger at Cataloochee, etc. From him I received:

"Thank you for your compliment.

Be sure to get the 2005 map edition, just out for a couple of weeks now.
Lots of good changes.

I am working on changes to horse use management in the park but we are
probably years away from significant improvements for horse users and
hikers.
Everyone is concerned about proper management of the trail system but
change is very difficult. Thank you for adding to our comments and we do
understand the many differing needs of the public.
George"

”