Titanium....worth it?

“So I'm about ready to purchase I guess a fairly expensive Titanium non stick set for about $90 at REI but thought I'd get a little input first:

1)Any complaintes about using titanium?

2)Weight savings worth it as compared to Alum or others?

Thanks”

“Alum can be much lighter.
Nothing wrong with aluminum.

I've never had a non stick pot that lasted very long.”

“Titanium doesnt seem to boil water as fast...I love my aluminum, mike likes titanium...

Its your own prefrence I guess. I got mine for a quarter at a garage sale...his was... probebly way too expensive lol
last edited: 8/05/05 10:33:27 AM”

“I've used ti as well as alum. I personally can't tell a big difference...but don't let em fool ya with that non-stick nonsense...total crap when you can't adjust your flame...stuff sticks. Keep stirrin!”

“I wouldn't pay $90 for the ti stuff. I found a set on sale for $29 (two big pots of the evernew ti non-stick stuff) and bought it then. I just boil water though. It's definately not non-stick.”

“it rocks to boil water in...i don't know the specifics of the science but i know it takes some getting used to fry stuff in - bacon, eggs, etc. It like transfers heat faster than aluminum but retains it for less time...does that make since? It cools down very fast.

That being said my entire titantium pot set w/pot grip weighs less than my 1L aluminum pot - less weight means I can pack more crap!

I'm sure someone on here actually could explain all of this rambling.

Anyway - I'm not going back to aluminum and tri-ply copper costs too much to pack in.

As for weight savings - we used to break everything down to "cost per gram" of weight savings. As soon as you realize you're paying $20+ per saved gram, you'll think "is it really worth it". This is really fun to do with bike parts too. The most I ever "saved" was $90 per gram. I think that's like cutting a few hairs off my ass.
last edited: 8/05/05 10:41:06 AM”

“I use plain aluminum and have never had anything stick.


Of course, I rarely do more than boil water.”

“now I want to know what I'm doing wrong. I usually pack Lipton rice packs. boil water dump it in...it has to simmer for 6-7 minutes...everytime some of it goms up on the bottom. What are you cookin bit?”

“Whhhaaaa? Non-stick titanium? About the only thing I can 'cook' on my regular titanium msr stuff is water-boiled.
There's a description of the differences of cookware metal types over at the msr site. It's comparitive about the quallities of the metals used in titanium cookware. ' Might help you out.

I Love my titanium, but I have to hold the pot well above the flame to "cook" any thing. And I have to take a teflon pan to make breads and things. My titanium pots cool off pretty quick too, so tthat's a nice handy point to me 'cause I can just pick the pot up without having to use the light lifter the whole time. It's lightweight, that's for sure. I guess you'll enjoy your set, and I'm gonna go look at these non-stick pans.”

“I find it easier to say titanium than aluminumumumSEE?numun.”

“Just rehydrating stuff I dehydrate myself. Rarely anything goes into my pot but water.”

“try a pot cozy Carlette. boil the water, dump your stuff in and take it off the heat and put the pot w/lid into the cozy for 6-7 mins, saves fuel too.”

“I use a small kettle to boil then rehydrate in the package. Nothing to clean up.”

“Carlette
STIRthe rice mix after you dump the water in!
THENlet it sit in a cozy.”

“now theres an idea...I've never used a cozy before. HOw much is that gonna add to my weight...LOL...”

“I bought a ton of TI stuff, and in general I like it all.

That said, I shelved some of it this year.

I am a huge alcohol stove freak (as opposed to just being a freak in general which many would argue is the case). Hence fuel efficiency is big with me. I did a lot of tests where I tried to see what stove designs would boil 2 cups of water with the smallest amounts of alcohol. With my TI boiling pots I couldn't get close to 2 cups with .5 oz of alcohol, but the second I switched to AL pots it was a totally different story.

When I say boil I mean a rolling boil, not hot with tiny bubbles.

With a good AL pot I could easily boil 2 cups of water with .5 oz of alcohol with several stove designs. I could only get results ranging from “very hot water” to the start of a boil with the TI pots with the same stoves and volume of fuel. I am (personally) convinced that it is related to the thermal conductivity and the thickness of the pots (TI pots tend to be thinner in my experience).

I am also convinced that a good cooking system is just that ... a system. It's a combination of the stove, fuel, pot/lid, windscreen, technique/user, and environment among other factors. They all have to be right to be optimized. No one thing is the "answer". They all have to work together.

So I still use my TI stuff like the spork, mug, etc. But for boiling water I use an AL pot.

Of course, for me, cooking = boiling water. Others may have other needs. In general all I take is an alcohol stove, a few oz of alcohol in a plastic bottle, matches, foil windscreen, and the AL boiling pot, and a bandana. The only TI I will carry is the spork and mug. The rest sits at home waiting for a more complex trip with more people. If I took the TI boiling pot I would need to take more fuel. So there is really no advantage to it and in fact it’s a bit of a disadvantage.

At this point I am convinced that there is really no advantage of TI over anodized AL for pots and pans. TI may be good for other things, but I think for cookware it's more a "cool" thing than any anything else. That $90 set of pots in TI could cost $24 bucks in anodized AL. Worth it? Only you can say. I think personally it’s a lot of marketing.

My favorite TI pieces that I have are listed below. You can tell I like the Snow Peak stuff:

Snow Peak 700 mug ... love it!
Snow Peak 800 pot/man … love it!
Snow Peak double wall mug ... love it in winter!
Snow Peak singe wall mug ... love it!
Snow Peak Spork ... love it but I admit a lexan one is just as good.
Snow Peak Coffee Press ... love it, but again the lexan presses you can get are cheaper and the coffee tastes the same.
Snow Peak Mini Solo … like it. The Cup is a little bit silly. I wish I was given the AL set (this was a gift) rather than the TI set.

The AL pot I have I got on eBay for $5 total and is rather old but works much better than any of these at boiling water ... with an alcohol stove. If you use a canister stove (a "blowtorch") I am betting these differences are subtle and perhaps irrelevant.”

“I am so confused. I was thinking about switching to some TI to save weight. All the reviews say great things about TI. So it looked like a no brainer except for the cost. But now half of you say don't get it the other say get it. I think I will just go back in my room now.”

“Thus it shall ever be on TT...

Let's look at the problem rationally.









No wait, this is TT, screw that.”

“I didn't waste the money on Ti....no point in it if all you do is boil water ;-)
And beware the scorching..ugh!”

“what i want to know is, how do they get that non-stick stuff to stick to the pan?

:-D”

“A few years ago, I heard that cooking with AL was a no no. There may be some connection with it causing alzheimers.
With that said, go ahead and cook with AL. You may eventually forget you did.”

“i heard the same thing about eating velveeta cheese. why do you think it melts so well? seriously!”

“Here is my spin on this.

Titanium has a density of 4.5 g/cm^3
Aluminum has a density of 2.7 g/cm^3

So Titanium is not less dense than Aluminum. It is, however, much stronger. So things can be made with a thinner gauge of titanium than of aluminum and the result could weight less.

I personally haven't found titanium pots to weigh less since they don't seem to be that much thinner than the same pots made of aluminum … perhaps somewhat thinner, but not much.

A good example is the Snow Peak Mini Solo Cookset.



In Titanium it weighs 10 oz and goes for $60 bucks.

In Aluminum (if you can find it) it weighs 7.8 oz and sells for $45 bucks. (You can get it at backcountrygear.com in aluminum for sure).

So the aluminum pot weighs 2.8 oz less than the same titanium pot.

So what do you get for your extra $15 bucks?

The Titanium is probably a stronger pot. Aside from that not much else. Nifty factor perhaps.

I find I need to carry less fuel (alcohol) when carrying an aluminum pot for boiling water, as I stated earlier. So I don't consider the weight savings of the pot alone but the total weight change of the cooking system. Hence my switch to aluminum for my boiling pot.”

“Actually I found that cookset in non-stick aluminum on eBay just now and ordered one. $32 bucks is damn reasonable. Shipping was fair, I think it came to $37 total. That's less than backcountry.com sells it.

I don't need it, I just want it.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5208587420&category=87144

So I am putting my money where my mouth is on this debate ... :)
last edited: 8/05/05 6:27:48 PM”

“pitts,
Pardon if I saw it in a earlier post, but where in IL are you at?”

“My problem with aluminum is that it tends to retain a slight urine smell after boiling. With titanium I can boil urine all evening long with no residual odors.”

“urine is sterile ... you can drink it!”

“Yes, but unless the urine is hot the noodles remain crunchy.”

“Buck, You're a freaking riot!

LOL! <= That's not a courtesy LOL, that suckers for real.”

“this is what I have. It cost 16.95 plus shipping which is less than what you paid for that pitts. I think quite a few TT'ers have this setup. I have started leaving the lid at home and tale aluminum foil to use as the lid. Cuts out some weight




last edited: 8/05/05 8:00:17 PM”

““I am so confused. I was thinking about switching to some TI to save weight. All the reviews say great things about TI. So it looked like a no brainer except for the cost. But now half of you say don't get it the other say get it. I think I will just go back in my room now.”
Outamatches
5:09:00 PM
8/05/05

Hike your own hike.

I use an Evernew 0.9 L Ti pot and lid as part of my ultralight cook kit. It has a wide base and good handles, my whole kit fits inside. Windscreen/potstand, alcohol burner, measuring cup.

There is no one perfect system.
Don't let any expect tell you otherwise.

Check my website for all kinds of different cook sets I and others have made.






last edited: 8/05/05 8:06:54 PM”

“hubcap: western 'burbs of Chicago

Ewker: I had a set like that and loved it. GREAT for melting snow if I recall.

buck is right about the taste, but I don't taste it in the nonstick or hard anodized pots. These basically are the same as what you would get in the store from a coating perspective. The aluminum is under a coating of teflon or aluminum oxide (or both).

Aluminum corrodes in oxygen and forms a layer of aluminum oxide on its surface. This coating is VERY hard (aluminum oxide is one of the hardest substances on the planet, approaching the hardness of diamonds). Once this layer is built up the corrosion stops because the pot gets sealed in this aluminum oxide coating. That helps with the taste and supposedly also makes the pot "safer", if you believe that aluminum pots are unsafe.

It's a thin coating, however, and isn't much protection from bangs and dents. So one can get anodized pots. All they do is deposit a thicker layer of aluminum oxide using a low temp high current electrolyte bath. This makes the surface VERY hard and also makes it easier to deposit a layer of Teflon on since it bonds well to aluminum oxide. Most of the aluminum pots and pans in your house (if you have them) are anodized with a Teflon coating.

Ever heard of Calaphon? It is basically very popular home cookware (very expensive too). Those are aluminum pans and pots with a hard anodized exterior. They make other stuff too, but's what they are known for. Why aluminum? Because it is light and it has excellent heat transmission properties so it provides a very even heat distribution.
last edited: 8/05/05 8:04:50 PM”

““A few years ago, I heard that cooking with AL was a no no. There may be some connection with it causing alzheimers.
With that said, go ahead and cook with AL. You may eventually forget you did.”
the goat
6:02:56 PM
8/05/05


This has been very well debunked by modern science.”

“Double boiler set a lot nowdays-I only use the big section & lid...leave the small one at home-should eb nice for winter though. My Primus stove, canister of fuel, lighter, spoons and baggie of papertowels all fit inside. I can even stash another canister of fuel on top of the lid with the stuff sack holding it all in.
Boils over 4 cups water in less than 4 minutes, so I am happy.
Otherwise I just use my Primus tea kettle if it is just me and no kid.”

“been lookin for that kettle ... and there it is. sigh.”

“Here is a strange item on eBay for all you pots and pans nuts:



Cup of grease, anyone? I see a lot of pots with "GREASE" on the side of them, just like the Wal-Mart Grease Pot. They are all old pots. It leads me to wonder if Wal-Mart chose the letter style/size/etc to match these older pots to appeal to elderly customers ... you know, marketing.

I have a huge collection of pots and pans, far more than I could ever use. I don't know what my fascination is with them.”

“... here is another one. Notice the lettering and the way the Wal-Mart Grease Pot looks like this pot. This pot is clearly different (notice recessed lettering and dimensions height to width). The "GREASE" letters are pressed out while on my Wal-Mart pot they are pressed in. I wonder if this has the inward-rolled lip? The handle is clearly different. I wonder if it's Bakelite?

Still, one almost could have polished a Wal-Mart Grease Pot with steel wool and put it on eBay ... I am sure it's been done before.



Here is the Wal-Mart pot for reference. I love the Zen Stoves web site it comes from (http://www.zenstoves.net).

”

“I was visiting with a friend this last week and the conversation turned to titanium. I mentioned how I was getting better performance boiling water in my aluminum pots than those made of titanium. So we dug around the periodic table on-line and found a really cool list of the elements sorted by thermal conductivity.

http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/periodic/thermal.html

The interesting part of this is at the bottom:

2.01 W/cmK Beryllium
2.37 W/cmK Aluminum
3.17 W/cmK Gold
4.01 W/cmK Copper
4.29 W/cmK Silver

W/cmK is Watts per Centemeter-Kelvin and is a metric unit for Thermal Conductivity.

Silver is at the bottom of the list being the most thermally conductive material (the list is sorted from least conductive to most conductive). It's followed by Copper, Gold, and .... Aluminum.

Titanium is #52 well behind zinc, lead, tin, and iron.

So this would explain why I get better results boiling water with aluminum than with titanium with my alcohol stove.

I have also played with anodized pots, as I said earlier, which are basically coated in aluminum dioxide. I can't find the thermal conductivity for this material, but based on simple tests I am betting it makes the composite material (aluminum coated with aluminum dioxide) less conductive.

I know it's all academic and not interesting to many people. It's just interesting to me.”

“I took my new Titanium pot set on it's first trip last week. I didn't notice much of a difference, the water boiled fast enough. Is it worth it? Guess it depends, the stuff is f'ing expensive, but it is strong and light, my set performed very well, so I guess it's worth it if you have the disposable income.”