It's a Crash! Bang! Grand Canyon Thang!

“I am going to be bringing a Ratsack and line it with odor proof bags. The ratsack is a stainless steel mesh and I'll hang it every night.

http://www.armoredoutdoorgear.com/ratsack.htm <-- Ratsack

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/aloksak_op_sak_12x15.html <-- Odor proof liner bags

I HAVE NEVER USED THIS SETUP BEFORE AND IF YOU COPY IT AND HAVE A DISASTER I WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOU SO DON'T HOLD ME RESPONSIBLE! :)
last edited: 1/04/06 8:07:48 PM”

“I will probably bring an Ursack.

http://www.ursack.com/

Jason L.
(screen name used to be jlust286)”

“I want one of those but they aren't waterproof. Beats me why they don't make a waterproof version of the Ursack. They couldn't get the original material they used to make them because of the war so they went to a new (better I am told) material. I wonder if they are waterproof now?”

“wont a regular bear-bag cut it? i really dont wanna bring my bearikade”

“I'll note for the record that my stainless steel mesh bag isn't waterproof either ...

That said, Crash, I emailed a friend that hiked in the Canyon about a year ago. They kept their food in plastic grocery bags and hung them from trees at night. He said they had no problems.

I have heard stories of mice climbing down ropes of bear bags to eat through to the contents. One site I read suggested making a disk of metal (cut the bottom from a coffee can, for example) and punch a hole in the center. Then when you hang your food just thread the like for the bear bag through the hole so that the disk acts as a shield. Then if/when the mice climb down the rope they will be unable to get around the metal disk... sort of a shield. You make a knot a foot or so up from the bag to keep the disk away from the food (the knot keeps the disk from sliding down to the bag so it's not right against the sack).

I don't know if it's necessary but it sounds reasonable to me. Like I said, the friend of mine that used plastic grocery bags did fine.
last edited: 1/05/06 8:45:50 AM”

“or you could use that cd of "yannis greatest hits" you got one year for christmas”

“Hehe, yeah, some things even rats won't chew on.”

“Thanks for the link jimmysan and all the other ideas. I'm still undecided on how I will handle this.”

“Okay, the Grand Canyon DVD came in the mail today, and I watched it. Send me an address whoever wants it next. Postal rates go up Sunday.”

“we all know conservatives are cheap bastards. ed will make you pay that extra 2 cents. better hurry if you dont wanna get it C.O.D.”

“The bear can will work, of course, but it's way overkill for the Canyon. Some use bear sacks. A lot of people hang bags from trees using fish line or weed-eater line, and the I've done that. I usually use a nylon bag. If I'm worried about rain I put everything in a plastic grocery sack inside the nylon bag.
Mostly I use a large "Protein Powder" container with a wide mouth screw-on lid. They also double as water containers in camp. You can leave these on the ground with some rocks on top/around them so the larger critters like ringtails can't move them. You can also put food in your cook pot and put a rock on it.
Leave your pack's zippers and pockets open, it helps keep critters from chewing through the fabric. They will chew even empty packs.
Indian Garden has a lot of mice, but also has ammo cans to store food in, and poles to hang packs from. The river camps have trees, I'm not sure about salt creek.
last edited: 1/05/06 10:27:48 PM”

“Great information cindy lu!! I like the protein powder container idea.”

“Has anyone ever tried storing your food in a couple of nalgene bottlea? I'd imagine the lexan would be extremely hard to break, and, in theory, the bottle should be smooth enough to prevent little critters from getting a place to nibble.

Though, now that I think about it, the standard plastic top would likely take a beating. Be nice if you could hang those from the trees with fishing wire though. I'll bet that would keep those pesky critters out. Probably a good odor barrier too.

Just a thought”

“I thought fishing line was a no-no because it cut into the bark on the trees. I am prolly being too LNT-PC.

Rescue9: I have read stories of critters chewing into nalgene bottles to get the water in them. This is my first time hiking in this sort of environment so I have no experience with which to validate these concerns. I am pretty comfortable with the setup I have put together.”

“"I thought fishing line was a no-no because it cut into the bark on the trees"
Actually, hanging anything from the trees is a LNT no-no. That's one reason I prefer something I can just leave on the ground. But you can always put something between the tree and the fish line to prevent damage, such as a sock.
I don't think odor barriers fool them a bit. They seem to know what kinds of containers food is kept in. I once saw a squirrel go right into a guy's pack and steal a clif bar on the Bright Angel Trail. A ringtail stole a baggie of dried fruit from me when I was two feet away from it. I'm sure he didn't smell it. He saw it from 50 feet away, darted in and took it, and sped away.
Nalgene is kind of heavy, but if you have them along and they happen to be empty, I think it would work great. There would be no need to hang them, though. I never carry Nalgene anymore, I use liter soda bottles for water instead. I've never had a critter chew a bottle in the Grand Canyon, not even in the mouse-infested Indian Garden. The only things I've seen chewed are packs and plastic bags.
last edited: 1/06/06 12:33:42 AM”

“what on earth is a ringtail?”

“A type of indiginous racoon that inhabits the Grand Canyon.

http://www.desertusa.com/mag01/mar/papr/ringt.html”

“thankyou prosecutor!

those little guys are cute! i kinda hope they show up to raid my pack.”

“Actually, hanging anything from the trees is a LNT no-no.

I have never read that or even heard that until just now. Not to be confrontational but I just don't believe it. I'll go through my package I use to teach LNT guidelines to the Boy Scouts.”

“We use fishing line, silnylon sacks and caribiners on our trips in the GC, have never lost a scrap of food. The ravens can be quite crafty though, opening zippers to packs and swooping in to steal a bag of trail mix that's set right next to you. Watch out for cloth items left out also, we had a pack towel chewed to bits one night, I am assuming a mouse used it for it's nest. I know have an Ursac and will use it hung from a tree on my next trip. Watch for the closure up top though, little critters have been known to reach their beaks/paws in the smallest holes to pull out the contents one peanut at a time ;)”

“"Actually, hanging anything from the trees is a LNT no-no."

well, if you really wanna get extreme, just by going into the wild we are violating lnt”

“Gotta love critters.”

“Jason Lustig
3081 Strolling Hills
Cameron Park, CA 95682”

“Sorry, Jimmy San not LNT. I thought that's where I read it, but it turns out I read it in the Indian Garden rules posted there. I'm thinking that it only applies to the campgrounds, not the backcountry campsites. I guess I just sort of mentally incorporated it into my 'shouldn't do' list.
rules
last edited: 1/07/06 12:28:53 PM”

“Jason, I'm in California as well. When you're finished please send it to me. I'll send you my address under seperate cover.
Thanks,
Frank”

“UPDATE!

Sorry Crash... I'm hijacking your thread. :-P

I have been authorized for the permit, but unfortunately I miscalculated the cost. I am sending the additional money for the permit monday. I have 4 spots open, but am in touch with a number of people regarding those spots. Please email me if you want to be put on the list.”

“SWEET!

whats your itinerary again?”

“wow. thisll be like survivor with two competing backpacking groups. im voting off all the guys and making alliances with helinka and paige ;-)

our thread is already kicking your threads ass. i think we should get some kind of award for that
last edited: 1/07/06 7:18:44 PM”

“Um... helinka and paige are on my itenerary, so my trip will always kick your trips ass... ROFLOL!”

“this could be interesting, maybe I should sign up!”

“naw.....been there done that already :)

Word of caution...watch out for the badgers and the tarantulas :)

damn badgers, you'll step on em before you'll see em.
last edited: 1/07/06 9:35:16 PM”

“Hey crash, being as how we've just doubled the group size, I'm going to setup a thread linked to my trip dedicated to transportation. I'm hoping that a dedicated forum will be easier for people to find rides, rather than having to search through the general threads.”

“I don't know any of you people in this other group.”

“me either, but it will be good to meet each of you.”

“everyone in our group has their rides taken care of”

“we dont want it getting back to park service that we are all from the same forum, so lets keep this on the down-low, shall we? i want to stress that these are two completely autonomous groups, with myself as an organizer and resuce9 as another organizer. each group is handling its own transport, accomodations, reservations, and everything else. nobody from either group knows each other, and we are not workig or hiking together. we'll bump into each other, im sure, but it will be by coincidence and not planned.
last edited: 1/08/06 4:24:37 AM”

“ha! so much for your plan of "voting off all the guys"”

“There's a show featuring the Grand Canyon on my local PBS station right now.

Not watching it now but though you guys may be interested if it's showing in your area.”

“you blocked everyone out crash bang”

“only zool”

“Scott, my reply to the email you sent to my hotmail account has been delyed for some reason. So yes, I got the message about this trip and thread. I suppose it will be harder if not impossible for others not privvy to this to chime in with ideas and suggestions.”

“didya know the hermit trail is classified as one of the steepest & hardest trails in the canyon?
isn't that on your route up Crash?”

“yes”

“ugh. i hate up. good thing i'm not signed up for your trip :)”

“im gettin pumped!”

“lol- got your bag packed yet?”

“No gear out just yet : D
last edited: 1/15/06 6:41:19 PM”

“i think low-weight is gonna be the way to go this time. i might even have to leave behind my comfy chair to save lbs.”

“I'll go as light as I can. Leaving the bear canister but bringing the tent. Its light and for the time of year I feel its a necessity.”

“i'm thinking about a bivy. thats lighter :)
and i like the idea of using a big proteinpowder canister for food. brilliant!
but seems like the rodents could still gnaw through the edges-i wonder if i'd still have to hang it?”