The destruction of New Orleans?

“That was what I thought too dayhiker. It's possible that he meant that damage from the hurricane itself, not necessarly the flood waters will cause the destruction.”

“I’m always fascinated when day hiker starts talking about the wood.”

“Buff the WOOD!”

“I hate playing with, I mean designing with wood. A house is a much bigger pain to design than a hospital.”

“CNN just reported that they have stopped evacuating people from a hospital downtown because helicopters are drawing sniper fire.”

““I hate playing with, I mean designing with wood. A house is a much bigger pain to design than a hospital.”
dayhiker
3:27:13 PM
9/01/05
ignore this user

Not for me. Although with the new residential codes they have here, the gap between the two is getting much smaller.”

“there isn't a lot that separates the US from any third world country”

“Even if a structure survives structurally most will probably have to be demolished anyway due to mold.”

“True dat”

““CNN just reported that they have stopped evacuating people from a hospital downtown because helicopters are drawing sniper fire.”

They should start shooting back then. If they want to play army then they should shoot back.”

“I bet a 50 caliber in the door of a Huey shooting blanks would scare the hell out of the snipers.”

“The folks in the video happen to be poor inner city blacks.


But if you were to isolate any group, devaste them, cut off food and water, cut off supply and escape routes . . .


You'd get the same result.

Cut off Rodeo drive, take away paris hilton's dog and bottled water and she would loot, steal guns etc.


I would.


It is in thinking about these situations that I get closest to buying a gun. If all hell breaks loose, its anarchy. I'd rather be armed (even if I have to break into W-mart and steal a gun) than at the mercy of other folks.


What a nightmare.”

“But if you were to isolate any group, devaste them, cut off food and water, cut off supply and escape routes . . .

You'd get the same result.

Cut off Rodeo drive, take away paris hilton's dog and bottled water and she would loot, steal guns etc.

I would.

What a nightmare.”
lee
2:46:25 PM
9/01/05
ignore this user
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry lee - I absolutely disagree with your above statement. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's a total load of crap. I've been in two nightmare situations (one a cat 5 hurricane and another a massive terrorist attack) and in my experience...I and most of the folk I knew had no interest in looting. These poor people (and I do sympathize with them....how horrible it is to go through something like this) and exactly that. Poor. Un- or under- educated. Living in conditions were morality is a very flexible abstract idea. No, these looters are people who would loot under much less circumstances. They are criminals who've been waiting for the opportunity to get away with all the bullcrap they've been wanting to do for years. And let's make this clear, not everyone is looting. I'm sure that there are some wonderful people living in squalor who would not stoop to such base behaviors.

I say shoot the friggin' looters or jail them...but seeing as how the jails are probably under water or destroyed...shot em.

These peoples actions are only going to do what they did in South Miami....force the government to impose Marshall Law and stick friggin guns in your face if you have to move about after curfew for any reason. Marshall Law sucks and is damn scary.”

“Amen sister.”

“So true Twinks...


If what lee suggests is true...I guess you have to be wretchedly desperete to consider stealing giant tvs...

Its one thing to steal food and water in an emergencey liekt that when you are copleatly on your own for survivle....but big screen tvs? Come on. Those looters on tv were clearly enjoying themselves.”

“Martial law has already been declared. The gunfire at helos came after the declaration.

Fat lot of good that did.”

“ahem...if bush would freakin send the people that are needed....”

“On one of my many visits to N.O. I saw 4 muggings - IN ONE DAY!

N.O. is...was...a beautiful but horribly desperate city.
last edited: 9/01/05 3:09:18 PM”

“I guess if all our military were not in Iraq we'd have more personnel able to go and help our own country.”

“I think the people that are stealing TVs and other electronics are not very bright. What good are these possessions when you no longer have a house to put them in not to mention the fact that there is no electricity to run these devices anyway?”

“Flood damaged goods on e-bay?”

“I feel so desperate for these people...I cant afford nor have the training to go out to help...but I am helping to pack up donations of med supplies and clothes/water today here at work.”

“NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- New Orleans' Charity Hospital halted efforts to evacuate its patients after it came under sniper fire, according to Dr. Tyler Curiel, who witnessed the incidents.

The attack came as New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin issued "a desperate SOS" for the thousands of people stranded in an around the city's convention center with no food or water and fading hope.

Curiel and his National Guard escorts, were returning to the hospital after dropping off patients at nearby Tulane Medical Center, when someone started shooting at their convoy of Humvees.

"We were coming in from a parking deck at Tulane Medical Center, and a guy in a white shirt started firing at us," Curiel said. "The National Guard (troops), wearing flak jackets, tried to get a bead on this guy.”

““Flood damaged goods on e-bay?”
Y2
4:12:35 PM
9/01/05
ignore this user

How many computers do you think are currently working and have internet access in NO?”

“should bush just blink his eyes and have them all magically appear in new orleans?

there are 7 navy ships headed there from norfolk, va.

the troops being in iraq is irrelevant.
last edited: 9/01/05 3:17:29 PM”

“LZ - i wasn't being serious. To be honest I don't think the looters are thinking far beyond the immediate future.

Baume - the thing I don't understand was why these weren't put to sea Sunday, or at least were being made ready to put to sea then.

Again, I'd heard many times that NO would be ruined once the 'big one' hit. Well Sunday evening a cat 5 is heading right for NO - and apart from evacuations it doesn't seem like anyone in key positions was thinking "what happens after the storm?"”

““ahem...if bush would freakin send the people that are needed....”
Spirit Coyote
3:07:39 PM

Why is this entire website themed around the idea that everything in life is President Bush's fought? 1000s of National Guardsmen are continuing to be activated for the southern LA, MS, and AL. My brother-in-law was activated yesterday. Also, $10 billion has just been proposed for immediate relief.
last edited: 9/01/05 3:22:18 PM”

“““I hate playing with, I mean designing with wood. A house is a much bigger pain to design than a hospital.”
dayhiker
3:27:13 PM
9/01/05
ignore this user

Not for me. Although with the new residential codes they have here, the gap between the two is getting much smaller.”
lumberzac
3:29:51 PM


silly architects. go back to drawing pretty pictures.
leave the actual designing to engineers.

(poke poke)”

“That's right sacco, leave it to the real men.”

“Zipa.com and DirectNIC.com are in downtown NO and are still up and runing.

One of the guys at DirectNIC is keeping his blog up to date
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

Geeks always find a way.”

“What’s up with the people shooting at the rescue workers? I’m trying to figure out their rational. Are they angry at the government for not acting as quickly or in a manner that they think is appropriate? Are they just nut jobs? Are they affiliated with gangs and think the flooded city is theirs and that they are going to hold off the government and military from retaking it?”

“I think they've just lost hope. People do weird things when there is no hope.”

“silly architects. go back to drawing pretty pictures.
leave the actual designing to engineers.

(poke poke)”
sacco
4:20:12 PM
9/01/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“That's right sacco, leave it to the real men.”
dayhiker
4:22:26 PM
9/01/05
ignore this user

That's it, you're both off my x-mas card list. 8p”

“and outta drugs”

“zac - I've been meaning to email you anyways about parapets and snow loads. They've been giving me fits on a job in NH. People here don't get it that if you double the height of a parapet that it actually matters when it snows and when the wind blows. I'll probably bug you about it next week.”

“Will this affect the whole flashing-boobs-for-beads thing?”

“1. Let me say that I agree with you that the MAJORITY of folks just want to survive. They want basic food, clothing and shelter. The majority of folks are good people. Who would and will help their neighbor.

2. Let me also say: the comparison to Andrew and to 9/11 is NOT apt.

In Andrew and in 9/11 people had an escape route. People were not trapped. They could walk, drive, bike, run or boat away.

Especially not 9/11. No-one was trapped.

Andrew people may have been trapped for short period of time, but could then go for wate and food and shelter.

Two important distinguishing charateristics:

People could get out. And help could get to the people.


In New Orleans the people can't get out. And people can't get to them.


To further clarify:

There is a limited number of supplies. A limited amount of food, water and shelter. None of those supplies are being replaced yet.


In Andrew the supplies were within a 20 mile radius.

In 9/11 the supplies were within a 3 block radius.

In New Orleans they are trapped.

I think there is a HUGE distinction in the situations. And I think that distinction makes all the difference.”

“Very cool link HPM. He said the Marines are coming. Now it'll get handled.”

“Well, I can see stealing the guns if you think people will enter your dwelling, whatever it may be at this time and try and take your food or water, but the thinking is that the people who are stealing guns are thugs, because they are also stealing non essentials like tvs etc. These people are criminals, not people who are desparate.

Human, my sister went on vacation when her husband and her could both get off of work and it so happend the hurricane struck at the end of her vacation. She didn't leave early being the hard shelled New Yorker that she is and everything turned out fine. Some people did evaculate at that time too. She waited and took her regular flight out with no problem. It could have turned out different and she could have gone from hard shelled to stupid, but it wall worked out fine and she didn't cut her vacation short after waiting a whole year for one.”

“The storm hit Monday and was close enough and powerful enough on Sunday that dire warnings were issued.

Today is Thursday.

Power companies across the northeast started sending trucks down late last week.

Suddenly, three days after a Cat 5 hurricane strikes a city that lies below sea level, it suddenly dawns on the White House that a federal response is needed???

No $hit, $herlock!”

“to answer Spirit

I am NOT condoning the activity. I am saying that it would happen anywhere under similiar circumstances.

Of course they don't need electronic goods.


What I am saying, is that if you isolate a group of folks in desparate circumstances, be they white, black, green or purple, they will act in a similar manner.


That deprived of its infrastructure and communications . ...the US will revert to third or fourth world mob rule in a heartbeat.


I never read "lord of the Flies", but my understnaidng is that this is exactly what it is about.

A group of civlized boys stranded on a deserted island . .who revert to prety primitive behavior.”

“Plus there is a #&%!$ load of people waiting for help. I am not blamning Bush for this, it is not his fault. There are some 60,000 people with no where to go. Their homes have been destroyed our cannot be lived in at present state.

People are desperate and unfortunatly supplies and tough to get in. Plus, when you drop supplies in close enough for the people, you will have several thousand people rushing the helicoptor, bus, truck, transport carring it.

They will have to get the National Gaurd in place before supplies can be distributed and I think they will need a lot more than 10,000 of them. The people will overwhelm them and then you will have a major problem.

This is going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

And again, this is not the fault of Mr. Bush.”

“That brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the biggest military response to a natural disaster in U.S. history.

Copied from a CNN article. We've dedicated a large force of troups to the effort but the area of destruction is so wide it just wasn't enough manpower.”

“hell you have that many looters in NO on the loose”

“OOPS, I thoght only 10,000 have been called in for support. My bad.

Exactly right. There is going to be shootings that breakout because the rations are not getting around.”

“this is something my wife sent me that she found on another forum...not my words but i do aggree

"I have firsthand proof that Bush conspired with Tony Blair to create this national disaster to draw attention away from Iraq. There is footage of his father flying in an old B-52 bomber (similar to one he claims to have flown in world war 2) with Dick Cheney as his co-pilot seeding the clouds on the western coast of Africa. The trip was funded in its entirety by Haliburton of course. Bush and Blair agreed that the outpouring of concern we as Americans always have in tragedies such as these will get our focus off from Iraq and they are both currently in the Arctic national wildlife refuge shooting caribou and drilling for oil while their stunt doubles do press conferences. Did I mention they are driving their Ford Excursions with the A/C on with their windows down? Get a clue man everything wrong in this world is not caused by Bush. While he has made several decisions I don't agree with, you all (or should I say y'all) should use logic rather than the liberal psycho-babble that you so readily regurgitate."”

“No, I do not blame bush for the disaster. No person can be blamed for that, only god.

I am just frustraited that it took him so long to realize the extent of this and to react about sending more troups.”

“We are all frustriated Nicole. Think about what these people are going through. Placing blame at this point on someone isn't going to help matters with these people.

Let's just hope people get what they need as quickly as possible and no one takes out a helicopter.”

“to get one thing clear, this is not the fault of the white house, congress or any other federal agency in any manner.

the fault lies completely on the city of new orleans and the fact that they did not have a emergency preparedness plan to fit the situation.

it isn't up to the army, navy, coast guard or white house to take care of being ready for things like this.

they only help when asked.

any of the states could have issued a state of emergency prior to the storm (they may have, i don't know). they could have had the national guard activated and moving before it hit.

new orleans could've gone and dragged people out of the city before the levee broke.

if fault lies anywhere, it is with the city.

now that it is becoming desperate, everyone wants to blame bush and the war in iraq.

that's just wrong.”