The destruction of New Orleans?

“chuckd, you have mail.”

“Kwame Kiltpatrick has said he would fly between 2000-4000 victims to Detroit. Put them up in hotels around here. While I am glad that this gives these people a second chance, or first chance, whatever the case may be, I am also a little apprehensive as I can only sit here and think that will just add to our state's welfare issue which is already trying. There are not many jobs in this state, either.

As for them being able to go back home in a few months, I do have to ask the question...is it their home to begin with? Or is it a rental?”

“Ultimately it would be cool if they could have like an adopt a family thing where people could open their homes to those who need it and have them stay with them until they get settled.”

“So... Tango gives it up every night?”
Pantscandy
7:36:00 PM
9/01/05

YEP!”

“One other thing, I am not belittling anyone who is a victim of this hurricane. It is unfortunate though, that the whole of the people who have been presented on the television appear to be a group that was in dire straits prior to the hurricane. Welfare and poverty, in most cases, are learned behavior in our inner cities. When you are given most of what you need, for most of your life, you come to expect it. Not appreciate it.

Ok, I will shut up now. I am starting to feel really depressed.”

“Just pray another storm doesn't come in.”

“aint that the truth.”

“

It don't look too promising.”

“"we have only just begun" The Carpenters.”

“This isn't FEMA's or Bush's fault. If you have ever been to NO you realize that you drive on 20+ miles of elevated highway to get there from almost every direction. Katrina destroyed these highways in many places. Have you seen the pictures of the Ponchatrain causeway it will have to be completely rebuilt. The massive destruction of infastructure is seriously affecting the ability to do anything. Before this is done a significant amount of people are going to have to be taken up the mississippi on barge to get them out. by the way have you heard they are using 15,000 lb super sandbags now to plug the levee.”

“Ultimately it would be cool if they could have like an adopt a family thing where people could open their homes to those who need it and have them stay with them until they get settled.”
Nigal


That's what many local families are doing here. A lot of refugees (I'm really hating that term but what else to use?) are in Jacksonville. Some are at a Red Cross shelter while many others are moving in with local families. Very cool to see.”

“Their doing that. And some are calling them evacuees.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/Katrina.SpareRooms.ap/index.html”

“refugees. evacuees. screw political correctness. GETMETHEFUQKOUTTAHERE-EES”

“As I stated on another thread this disaster will test our nations resolve unlike any other since 1941. The time for blame isn't now. We can let this disaster destroy us or build us up, its our choice. Your either part of the problem or part of the solution.”

“The company i work for is taking people from down there and distrubuting them here in illinois. The boss is asking people to take some of them in if need be.”

“Bush bears some blame. It's known that hurricanes draw their strength from warm waters. Global warming is contributing to the increase in frequency and strength of hurricanes. What is Bush's record on global warming?

Bush has thousands of military reserves tied up in Iraq that could be used in the disaster area.

Bush has helped the rich while ignoring the poor. Rich have gotten richer. Many of the people who didn't evacuate blame their financial situation for not having the means to evacuate.”

“This is not the time for blame. Your fellow americans are dying. www.redcross.org”

“House Speaker: Rebuilding N.O. doesn't make sense
Thursday, 2:55 p.m.

By Bill Walsh
Washington bureau

WASHINGTON - House Speaker Dennis Hastert dropped a bombshell on flood-ravaged New Orleans on Thursday by suggesting that it isnТt sensible to rebuild the city.

"It doesn't make sense to me," Hastert told the Daily Herald in suburban Chicago in editions published today. "And it's a question that certainly we should ask."

Hastert's comments came as Congress cut short its summer recess and raced back to Washington to take up an emergency aid package expected to be $10 billion or more. Details of the legislation are still emerging, but it is expected to target critical items such as buses to evacuate the city, reinforcing existing flood protection and providing food and shelter for a growing population of refugees.

The Illinois RepublicanТs comments drew an immediate rebuke from Louisiana officials.

УThatТs like saying we should shut down Los Angeles because itТs built in an earthquake zone,Ф former Sen. John Breaux, D-La., said. УOr like saying that after the Great Chicago fire of 1871, the U.S. government should have just abandoned the city.Ф

Hastert said that he supports an emergency bailout, but raised questions about a long-term rebuilding effort. As the most powerful voice in the Republican-controlled House, Hastert is in a position to block any legislation that he opposes.

"We help replace, we help relieve disaster," Hastert said. "But I think federal insurance and everything that goes along with it... we ought to take a second look at that."

The speakerТs comments were in stark contrast to those delivered by President Bush during an appearance this morning on ABCТs УGood Morning America.Ф

УI want the people of New Orleans to know that after rescuing them and stabilizing the situation, there will be plans in place to help this great city get back on its feet,Ф Bush said. УThere is no doubt in my mind that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city.Ф

Insurance industry executives estimated that claims from the storm could range up to $19 billion. Rebuilding the city, which is more than 80 percent submerged, could cost tens of billions of dollars more, experts projected.

Hastert questioned the wisdom of rebuilding a city below sea level that will continue to be in the path of powerful hurricanes.

"You know we build Los Angeles and San Francisco on top of earthquake issures and they rebuild, too. Stubbornness," he said.

Hastert wasn't the only one questioning the rebuilding of New Orleans. The Waterbury, Conn., Republican-American newspaper wrote an editorial Wednesday entitled, "Is New Orleans worth reclaiming?"

"Americans' hearts go out to the people in Katrina's path," it said. "But if the people of New Orleans and other low-lying areas insist on living in harm's way, they ought to accept responsibility for what happens to them and their property."”

“mountian peak...chicago- specifically the Burns harbor in Hammond is hopeing to become the "new orleans of the north" if the closer permenent/extened which would benifit this area emencely if new orleans wasnt rebuilt....I read it in todays Sun Times here.”

“I'm behind on this thread but whoever it was that said they can rebuild the city to attract "more tourists" obviously has never been to NO!!! It was a city where the streets were always packed. It was always a party in NO. It just breaks my heart to see what the city has turned to.”

“I'm just curious, but is it really the best strategy to wait for a big disaster and then overwhelm that area with donations?

I'm not trying to be critical. And I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from giving.

But there are poor people in lots of places. And people die because of lack of money and medical care all the time in many, many cities.

And it seems to me that a significant portion of this crisis is the result of a lack of infrastructure, a lack of resilience in the existing community and a lack of personal financial resources.

And it also seems that when a crisis like this happens, resources are often driven from other worthwhile charities.

And it's so easy to write a check and send it someplace far away.

I'm just thinking out loud that maybe the best thing to do is to find a local charity and give them money and actual volunteer time.

I mean, it is kind ridiculous for anyone in Metro Detroit to send money to Louisiana when Detroit, Flint and Benton Harbor are bombed out and 7.5% of the state population is jobless.

Why not use this as an opportunity to make our own communities stronger for when bad things happen here?”

“After a night of reflection I can't believe how sucked in I got over the last two days. I spent tons of times on this thread with each post becoming more emotional and less rational than the last. I'm going to try and stay away today. To anyone I offended, I apologize. On my way home I just kept thinking, what was I thinking?”

“May New Orleans rest in peace...

Those people down there, they are something else. Unbelievable. There is no control, fires are burning as we speak, the mayor is going nuts.”

“Dang, 5 days and still very little relief effort....some poor woman on the news last night went into diabetic shock while being interviewed. Can you imagine? It now exceeds the ability of my imagination. It's like Bangladeesh (sp?) in our own backyard. Dang...dang.”

“I heard babies were dying of dehydration...”

“We must learn from everything in life be it good or bad. What I have learned is that we can not depend on the government to save us or help us when we need it. I’m not saying the government isn’t doing things right or wrong or fast enough. I’m just saying that learning to depend on ourselves rather than the government can help a lot when the shlt hit’s the fan if for no other reason than putting us in the proper mindset.”

“Not to politicize this, but, nigal, about half of americans just don't understand that. They don't want to.”

“how many other countries have offered to help??

As the US rushed in to help with the Tsunami in Asia, and almost every other disaster in the world.”

“CNN reported that last year New Orleans had an exercise for a major breech of the levee system.”

“It's a long article, but a rather interesting take on the history and future of New Orleans from a geopolitical standpoint:

STRATFOR
New Orleans: A Geopolitical Prize
September 01, 2005 22 30 GMT


Editor's Note: This article contained a numerical error as originally
published and distributed to readers. The error is corrected in the
version below.

By George Friedman

The American political system was founded in Philadelphia, but the
American nation was built on the vast farmlands that stretch from the
Alleghenies to the Rockies. That farmland produced the wealth that
funded American industrialization: It permitted the formation of a
class of small landholders who, amazingly, could produce more than they
could consume. They could sell their excess crops in the east and in
Europe and save that money, which eventually became the founding
capital of American industry.

But it was not the extraordinary land nor the farmers and ranchers who
alone set the process in motion. Rather, it was geography -- the
extraordinary system of rivers that flowed through the Midwest and
allowed them to ship their surplus to the rest of the world. All of the
rivers flowed into one -- the Mississippi -- and the Mississippi flowed
to the ports in and around one city: New Orleans. It was in New Orleans
that the barges from upstream were unloaded and their cargos stored,
sold and reloaded on ocean-going vessels. Until last Sunday, New
Orleans was, in many ways, the pivot of the American economy.

For that reason, the Battle of New Orleans in January 1815 was a key
moment in American history. Even though the battle occurred after the
War of 1812 was over, had the British taken New Orleans, we suspect
they wouldn't have given it back. Without New Orleans, the entire
Louisiana Purchase would have been valueless to the United States. Or,
to state it more precisely, the British would control the region
because, at the end of the day, the value of the Purchase was the land
and the rivers - which all converged on the Mississippi and the
ultimate port of New Orleans. The hero of the battle was Andrew
Jackson, and when he became president, his obsession with Texas had
much to do with keeping the Mexicans away from New Orleans.

During the Cold War, a macabre topic of discussion among bored graduate
students who studied such things was this: If the Soviets could destroy
one city with a large nuclear device, which would it be? The usual
answers were Washington or New York. For me, the answer was simple: New
Orleans. If the Mississippi River was shut to traffic, then the
foundations of the economy would be shattered. The industrial minerals
needed in the factories wouldn't come in, and the agricultural wealth
wouldn't flow out. Alternative routes really weren't available. The
Germans knew it too: A U-boat campaign occurred near the mouth of the
Mississippi during World War II. Both the Germans and Stratfor have
stood with Andy Jackson: New Orleans was the prize.

Last Sunday, nature took out New Orleans almost as surely as a nuclear
strike. Hurricane Katrina's geopolitical effect was not, in many ways,
distinguishable from a mushroom cloud. The key exit from North America
was closed. The petrochemical industry, which has become an added value
to the region since Jackson's days, was at risk. The navigability of
the Mississippi south of New Orleans was a question mark. New Orleans
as a city and as a port complex had ceased to exist, and it was not
clear that it could recover.

The Ports of South Louisiana and New Orleans, which run north and south
of the city, are as important today as at any point during the history
of the republic. On its own merit, POSL is the largest port in the
United States by tonnage and the fifth-largest in the world. It exports
more than 52 million tons a year, of which more than half are
agricultural products -- corn, soybeans and so on. A larger proportion
of U.S. agriculture flows out of the port. Almost as much cargo, nearly
57 million tons, comes in through the port -- including not only crude
oil, but chemicals and fertilizers, coal, concrete and so on.

A simple way to think about the New Orleans port complex is that it is
where the bulk commodities of agriculture go out to the world and the
bulk commodities of industrialism come in. The commodity chain of the
global food industry starts here, as does that of American
industrialism. If these facilities are gone, more than the price of
goods shifts: The very physical structure of the global economy would
have to be reshaped. Consider the impact to the U.S. auto industry if
steel doesn't come up the river, or the effect on global food supplies
if U.S. corn and soybeans don't get to the markets.

The problem is that there are no good shipping alternatives. River
transport is cheap, and most of the commodities we are discussing have
low value-to-weight ratios. The U.S. transport system was built on the
assumption that these commodities would travel to and from New Orleans
by barge, where they would be loaded on ships or offloaded. Apart from
port capacity elsewhere in the United States, there aren't enough
trucks or rail cars to handle the long-distance hauling of these
enormous quantities -- assuming for the moment that the economics could
be managed, which they can't be.

The focus in the media has been on the oil industry in Louisiana and
Mississippi. This is not a trivial question, but in a certain sense, it
is dwarfed by the shipping issue. First, Louisiana is the source of
about 15 percent of U.S.-produced petroleum, much of it from the Gulf.
The local refineries are critical to American infrastructure. Were all
of these facilities to be lost, the effect on the price of oil
worldwide would be extraordinarily painful. If the river itself became
unnavigable or if the ports are no longer functioning, however, the
impact to the wider economy would be significantly more severe. In a
sense, there is more flexibility in oil than in the physical transport
of these other commodities.

There is clearly good news as information comes in. By all accounts,
the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port, which services supertankers in the
Gulf, is intact. Port Fourchon, which is the center of extraction
operations in the Gulf, has sustained damage but is recoverable. The
status of the oil platforms is unclear and it is not known what the
underwater systems look like, but on the surface, the damage - though
not trivial -- is manageable.

The news on the river is also far better than would have been expected
on Sunday. The river has not changed its course. No major levees
containing the river have burst. The Mississippi apparently has not
silted up to such an extent that massive dredging would be required to
render it navigable. Even the port facilities, although apparently
damaged in many places and destroyed in few, are still there. The
river, as transport corridor, has not been lost.

What has been lost is the city of New Orleans and many of the
residential suburban areas around it. The population has fled, leaving
behind a relatively small number of people in desperate straits. Some
are dead, others are dying, and the magnitude of the situation dwarfs
the resources required to ameliorate their condition. But it is not the
population that is trapped in New Orleans that is of geopolitical
significance: It is the population that has left and has nowhere to
return to.

The oil fields, pipelines and ports required a skilled workforce in
order to operate. That workforce requires homes. They require stores to
buy food and other supplies. Hospitals and doctors. Schools for their
children. In other words, in order to operate the facilities critical
to the United States, you need a workforce to do it -- and that
workforce is gone. Unlike in other disasters, that workforce cannot
return to the region because they have no place to live. New Orleans is
gone, and the metropolitan area surrounding New Orleans is either gone
or so badly damaged that it will not be inhabitable for a long time.

It is possible to jury-rig around this problem for a short time. But
the fact is that those who have left the area have gone to live with
relatives and friends. Those who had the ability to leave also had
networks of relationships and resources to manage their exile. But
those resources are not infinite -- and as it becomes apparent that
these people will not be returning to New Orleans any time soon, they
will be enrolling their children in new schools, finding new jobs,
finding new accommodations. If they have any insurance money coming,
they will collect it. If they have none, then -- whatever emotional
connections they may have to their home -- their economic connection to
it has been severed. In a very short time, these people will be making
decisions that will start to reshape population and workforce patterns
in the region.

A city is a complex and ongoing process - one that requires physical
infrastructure to support the people who live in it and people to
operate that physical infrastructure. We don't simply mean power plants
or sewage treatment facilities, although they are critical. Someone has
to be able to sell a bottle of milk or a new shirt. Someone has to be
able to repair a car or do surgery. And the people who do those things,
along with the infrastructure that supports them, are gone -- and they
are not coming back anytime soon.

It is in this sense, then, that it seems almost as if a nuclear weapon
went off in New Orleans. The people mostly have fled rather than died,
but they are gone. Not all of the facilities are destroyed, but most
are. It appears to us that New Orleans and its environs have passed the
point of recoverability. The area can recover, to be sure, but only
with the commitment of massive resources from outside -- and those
resources would always be at risk to another Katrina.

The displacement of population is the crisis that New Orleans faces. It
is also a national crisis, because the largest port in the United
States cannot function without a city around it. The physical and
business processes of a port cannot occur in a ghost town, and right
now, that is what New Orleans is. It is not about the facilities, and
it is not about the oil. It is about the loss of a city's population
and the paralysis of the largest port in the United States.

Let's go back to the beginning. The United States historically has
depended on the Mississippi and its tributaries for transport. Barges
navigate the river. Ships go on the ocean. The barges must offload to
the ships and vice versa. There must be a facility to empower this
exchange. It is also the facility where goods are stored in transit.
Without this port, the river can't be used. Protecting that port has
been, from the time of the Louisiana Purchase, a fundamental national
security issue for the United States.

Katrina has taken out the port -- not by destroying the facilities, but
by rendering the area uninhabited and potentially uninhabitable. That
means that even if the Mississippi remains navigable, the absence of a
port near the mouth of the river makes the Mississippi enormously less
useful than it was. For these reasons, the United States has lost not
only its biggest port complex, but also the utility of its river
transport system -- the foundation of the entire American transport
system. There are some substitutes, but none with sufficient capacity
to solve the problem.

It follows from this that the port will have to be revived and, one
would assume, the city as well. The ports around New Orleans are
located as far north as they can be and still be accessed by
ocean-going vessels. The need for ships to be able to pass each other
in the waterways, which narrow to the north, adds to the problem.
Besides, the Highway 190 bridge in Baton Rouge blocks the river going
north. New Orleans is where it is for a reason: The United States needs
a city right there.

New Orleans is not optional for the United States' commercial
infrastructure. It is a terrible place for a city to be located, but
exactly the place where a city must exist. With that as a given, a city
will return there because the alternatives are too devastating. The
harvest is coming, and that means that the port will have to be opened
soon. As in Iraq, premiums will be paid to people prepared to endure
the hardships of working in New Orleans. But in the end, the city will
return because it has to.

Geopolitics is the stuff of permanent geographical realities and the
way they interact with political life. Geopolitics created New Orleans.
Geopolitics caused American presidents to obsess over its safety. And
geopolitics will force the city's resurrection, even if it is in the
worst imaginable place.”

“Yep, that pretty much sums up why the "don't rebuild" people are ignorant of reality.

Improve and rebuild.”

“very good article - we were wondering about the transport of the agricultural commodities yesterday at lunch.”

“http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/02/katrina.world/index.html


Australia on Friday said it would donate A$10 million (US$7.7 million) immediately to the American Red Cross as well as sending a team of emergency management specialists to identify what other help could be offered and providing services where most needed.

Japan donated $200,000 to the Red Cross and would also provide up to $300,000 in aid supplies such as tents and power generators, the Associated Press quoted officials as saying.

The European Union said it was ready to offer any assistance in the wake of "what is perhaps the greatest civil emergency in US history."

NATO said help was available but it would need to know more about what could be needed.

Germany also said it would offer aid or money if requested by Washington, though officials said the U.S. was well equipped to deal with natural disasters.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent a telegram to President George W. Bush saying he was "deeply shocked" by the news.”

“And while the small island nation is still recovering from the tsunami disaster, it also pledged $25,000 to the American Red Cross, the AP reported.”

“Lord,

Grant me the Courage to change the things I can,

The patience to Accept the things I can't,

And the Wisdom to know the difference.”

“Huntsville Hospital is located in North Alabama. I work there as a software engineer. We have been asked by the government to provide hospital beds for 200 transfers coming from the disaster area. Several IT employees are former nurses and have been asked to help provide care for the patients.

My wife is a teacher here in Huntsville. They have already started receiving students from the disaster area. There will be more to come as people find alternate places to live.

I can't help thinking about the guy I saw on TV last Monday night. He owned a business near Bourbon Street and was out on the streets walking around. He was talking about how they had been lucky and he figured he'd have his store back open by Labor Day weekend. Then, the next day all heck broke loose...”

“http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=43596

Many of the navy families are coming here, too, with only the clothes on their backs.”

“It's great that other countries are starting to pitch in but that just doesn't seem like alot of money.

I heard Wal-Mart is donating 17 million which I think it's awesome.”

““It's great that other countries are starting to pitch in but that just doesn't seem like alot of money.

I heard Wal-Mart is donating 17 million which I think it's awesome.”
Mrs Opie
10:14:05 AM
9/02/05
ignore this user

Wal-Mart probably has more money than some of these countries.”

“Good point, LZ.”

“Louisiana is one of the few Southern states that still votes Democratic every once in a while. Lots of this is dependent on a hard core Democratic voting block in New Orleans. It will be interesting to see if that is now just gone. And it will be interesting to see if a Republican Washington will want to spend much on recreating a Democratic power base.”

“The fact that other nations are donating money and resources to the richest nation on Earth seems significant to me.

Why federal troops were not mobilized and prepositioned ready to enter the city Monday night is beyond my understanding. Why other resources were not put into motion over the weekend is beyond me.

The hurricane struck on Monday and it's now Friday, and the richest nation on Earth still says troops are on the way. Sounds like the Democratic National Convention slogan.

While it is true that people should not depend on government for everything, they should be able to rely on government for basic public safety, for basic health response to a disaster, for food and water resources that are available but were not moved out until late.

That moron Chertoff last night told an NPR interviewer that the folks in the Convention Center had plenty of food and water. Guess those folks are dying of food overdose.”

“So we've now got an anti-terrorism expert running this show. Wonderful. God love the Department of Homeland Security.

This is the same department that, apparently, in the 4 years since 9/11 didn't realize that a couple of truck bombs couldn't do the EXACT same thing that this hurricane did in flooding New Orleans.

God love centralized power. God love the Department of Homeland Security.”

“"We must learn from everything in life be it good or bad. What I have learned is that we can not depend on the government to save us or help us when we need it. I’m not saying the government isn’t doing things right or wrong or fast enough. I’m just saying that learning to depend on ourselves rather than the government can help a lot when the shlt hit’s the fan if for no other reason than putting us in the proper mindset.”
Nigal
8:14:27 AM
9/02/05
ignore this user


I am never going to trust our government again...not for public safety, anything...”

“"I am never going to trust our government again...not for public safety, anything...”

We have become dependant on government way too much. A good general plan is to have a garden, have 90- days worth of food and water on hand complete with batteries and other things. Basiclly be able to be on your own for three months.”

“Nigal, I think that is a great idea.

It just kind of sucks that that's what we've come to as a nation.

Whatever happened to the common good?”

“… told an NPR interviewer that the folks in the Convention Center had plenty of food and water

Actually I am glad you mentioned this interview. I listened to the interview and actually I thought he said that he had not verified that there were people there or at least not the numbers the NPR reporter was claiming (1000 and 2000 were given). I love the way the NPR reporter kept him on the topic.

Chertoff's response was utter crap, a total embarrassment. I would have understood it if he would have said something like, “We are still investigating…”, etc. Instead he actually fought with the reporter and in the end (I thought) reluctantly agreed to have someone check it out. I was yelling at the radio I was so pissed. He kept going on about, “You have to understand this is the force of mother nature here …” I mean I can understand incompetence, lack of preparation, the overall scope of the disaster … but the belligerence and lack of humility on display in that interview was obscene. I swear, I would almost call it politics the way he talked.

The thing that is so telling to me is this. I am from that area and know the New Orleans downtown like the back of my hand. It’s like 6 blocks from the Convention Center to the Superdome. I find it hard to believe that people suffering so horribly wouldn’t know there is food and an ongoing evacuation going on 6 blocks away. Why can’t they walk there? That was a rhetorical question. I think the answer is that they can’t… it’s that bad. Either that or information is so fragmented that people 6 blocks away from supplies and evacuation don’t know they can go there. In either case it’s a strong indication of how bad things really are.”

“We have become dependant on government way too much. A good general plan is to have a garden, have 90- days worth of food and water on hand complete with batteries and other things. Basiclly be able to be on your own for three months.”
Nigal
9:44:14 AM
9/02/05

And that garden and 90 day supply of food would be flooded out for all those living in N.O.”

“I think it's great that other nations are offering to help. The question is what can they do?
Normally the internation community sends in whatever is needed, the US has all this stuff. There is the manpower there, the helicopters, trucks. It's hard to see what can be done in practical terms.

What you may see is "experts" coming in from other nations.”

“I had not heard of any external help, Thanks for the update.

Great article from Mutt on the geographic importance of the region as the only gateway for the produce of the midwest.”