The destruction of New Orleans?

“dayhiker - Ok. Ignore the problem.

Rebuild in a major flood zone.

Feel sorry for them in another 40 years.

On and on ......

Meanwhile we all pay for their stupidity.”

“Yes they are, but that's not what you said. Would you like me to quote you? Aw shucks, I think I will just for grins.

Also, the people who should pay are the people who knowingly built there in the first place.”
Sarge
11:13:57 AM
8/31/05

In the first place implies when the city was first built. The decision to build there obviously goes way back.”

“yo DH, how's your lip feel?

must hurt having a big ol' fishhook in it.”

“This got sidetracked, I think it's a great idea to have a no-build zone against the coast. I posted that we'd had a conversation about just that in the office this morning. I make my income from construction btw. My only beef is that you implied there should not be humanitary relief, or at least I thought that's what you meant.”

“sacco - it does. I gotta get some billable work done this morning and I get snagged.”

“I have noticed sarge has been putting the bait out there on all threads. Seems very few are even biting
last edited: 8/31/05 11:23:58 AM”

“dayhiker - Don't read into what I said. I wrote what I wrote. Period.

This is a serious issue. You can pretend like I'm trolling all day long. Meanwhile, we pay for it. In college I almost switched to earth sciences to help tackle this exact problem. It's an issue we discussed quite a bit in one of our classes. Why you think someone is trolling over this is beyond me. There are many laws regulating this kind of activity, and there are some (like the building of dams for example) that actually encourage this stupid behavior. Ok, call me a troll. But this is a serious problem.”

“That ignore feature is wonderful. Maybe it's getting used more lately?”

“Is lizs a troll too? She touched on this.”

“Is lizs a troll too? ”
Sarge
11:25:20 AM
8/31/05

it has been discussed”

“Steve Spurrier might be the Master Gator, but I think Sarge is the Master Baitor.

I like the way he feigns ignorance.

Hey agreed on the dam thing. I had a class on how to design the things, and I'm glad I don't do that for a living.

Sidebar: 2 years ago some friends and I are taking a trip in the Smokies. Everyone on the trip is either an engineer or architect. We're walking over Fontana dam. The geotech engineer asks what the name of the lake was again. I tell him and he says that he's read a big case study about how it was built or designed wrong (I don't recall) and had failed in the past. It was built quickly to supply power to Alcoa during WWII and had some sort of major problem. It was a comforting story while walking a couple hundred feet over the valley floor below.”

“dayhiker - Please tell me how I'm trolling here. Are you saying that this isn't a real concern? That we should ignore the problem and not discuss it as a society? Is that really what you believe?”

“Sidebar 2: (up until 2 months ago) i spent the last 6 years working for NY state as an engineer/engineer tech in the Bureau of flood protection (DEC) i have some thoughts, but this is neither the time, nor the place :)”

“LOL, Ewker. BUT... as always, you know it's ME posting. Not some ninny who hides behind another name.

I touched on both sides of the issue. It' something I thought about before the current disaster. I do think many places now look at the lay of the land in building and prohibiit it, or use things like the NDPS (or NDPS?) to make sure water runoff is taken into account.

Sarge just took off with it all...

OK, I gotta book. Leaving on a trip TOMORROW!”

“Before we rebuild is the time. Not after.”

“sarge, where is god in all this?

why did your god cause this hurricane to wipe out hundreds (thousands?) of innocent christians?

did they not pray hard enough?

isn't god all powerful?

some omnipotence- pffft, can't even stop a hurricane.”

“Still no word from my brother, but other friends are starting to call in. One was very late last night. So far so good.”

“sacco - Obviously you don't think this is a serious issue.”

“sarge, if a tornado comes through where you live and destroys your home I hope you don't accept any help from anyone. Didn't you know that a tornado could happen there and it would destroy your home.”

“I agree with Sarge, the majority of those people in Alabama and Louisiana must be stupid, they voted for Bush.







........that was a joke, sarge's statement is just as ridiculous as my bad humor. Hopefully New Orleans will get some type of WPA organization going to build those levies to withstand such a hurricane.”

“I love how right after a disaster there is always someone halfway across the country who wants to piss and moan about how much it's going to cost them and how stupid the people are who live there.

There is a large difference in discussing an issue and simply being an A SShole.
last edited: 8/31/05 11:57:47 AM”

“au contraire, mon frere

i think it is very serious and tragic of course.

don't you think so too?

“People who live there knew what they were getting themselves into at the time. Now we have to pay for it? Get real people.”
Sarge
11:30:28 AM
8/31/05


such a cavalier attitude you have...”

“Ewker - Maybe you haven't been keeping up on this whole disaster thing, but some areas are MUCH more prone to disaster than others. These people KNEW this would happen some day. They were warned. It's common knowledge. Yes, a disaster can strike anywhere, but to rebuild in an area that is prone to disaster is just stupid. Especially if you're not willing to accept the consequenses and wish for others to pay for your mistake.

By your logic we should allow people to build several feet from a shoreline that is closing in every year and then pay for their insurance when their house sinks. Oh wait! We do that too! Don't be so childish about this. This is a real problem in this country. I can't believe you're that stupid to not understand the difference.”

“Especially if you're not willing to accept the consequenses and wish for others to pay for your mistake


Sarge - does this mean that you don't carry auto insurance?”

“I am up to date on it all. I just hope you keep your word and don't ask for help when a tornado destroys your home.”

“such a cavalier attitude you have... - sacco

Actually my attitude was that one of non-dismissiveness. We should not allow them to be cavalier about rebuilding there. How is that me being cavalier unless you think this is a joke? It's very serious. It's very expensive, and it's about human life.”

“I thought the Dem's were all about protecting people from themselves?”

“Ewker - Show me where I said I wouldn't ask for help when a tornado destroys my home please. What post was that?

You seem to think that there is no difference between building in a known danger-zone and a relatively safe zone. Maybe you are dumber that I thought.

Also, I suggested we DO help these people. Help them rebuild and relocate elsewhere.

It's foolish to rebuild there.”

“sarge, no wonder your not worried, trolls live in a cave”

“Sarge - does this mean that you don't carry auto insurance? - dayhiker

My state requires me to have it. I have the minimum amount required by law.”

“I'd like to see Sarge try to relocate some coonass cajun. Talk about a butt whippin.”

“ok, if your home was paid for would you carry home owners insurance?”

“sarge, no wonder your not worried ...

Not worried about what? What are you talking about? Are you having an imaginary conversation in your head?”

“funny thing:

dayhiker and sarge both pretty much agree on enforcing NO-BUILDING ZONE (i'd bet that so do most folks on here)

DH actually brought up the subject first.

and yet it was Captain Caustic, A.K.A. sarge, that managed to offend half the board.

sarge, for those times that you are not trolling (if ever), you could learn from DH.”

““ok, if your home was paid for would you carry home owners insurance?” - dayhiker

First of all, "no".

Secondly, homeowners insurance is where you pay a company to reimburse you if you have a problem. A pool of people go into that. If someone in a flood zone wants to pay a higher rate to an insurance company to insure their home, I don't have a problem with that. What REALLY happens though is that these people end up taking federal and state money (read: tax money) to rebuild and have this happen all over again. That's what I have a problem with.”

“I feel terrible for these people. It's times like this when we all just have to stop thinking of our own little petty lives and help those who need helped. Helping those less fortunate than ourselves is how we bank up our own providence when WE need it down the line.”

“We were talking about it here from the perspective that at some point in time the Gulf Coast will be wall to wall condos. It's dang near that from Panama City FL to Fort Walton and then from Pensacola Beach FL to Gulf Shores, AL.

The tough thing about the no-build is that folks have spens tens of millions of dollars on very small pieces of land to build those condos on. Who's going to repay them so that they don't build? If you throw in lost future earnings on that land then the numbers are amazing.”

“sacco - I offended the sheep. "Group think." I don't care about offending sheepish people.”

“Not only that Dayhiker but what's the population loss if those condos are not there? Take that population + $20-ish a day in food bought + lost property tax = Ouch babe, very ouch. And I'm sure it goes even deeper than this of course.”

“sarge, don't you mean you don't care about people

trolls live in caves that is why your not worried about a tornado..keep up boy”

“NIgal, you have mail on from the job title thread.”

“I wonder if this could wait until the dead are buried?

One thing seems clear. If we had spent the money raising the levees (that have sunk over time) and building more pumping stations as called for in the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project ( http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367 ) we'd have saved billions of dollars and an unknown number of lives.
last edited: 8/31/05 12:25:25 PM”

“trolls live in caves that is why your not worried about a tornado..keep up boy - Ewker

Oh, I see. You were talking about some fantasy land thing going on in your head. Sorry to interrupt.”

“sarge your fantasy land is what I am talking about..dang it keep up boy”

“Ewker -

I'm not trolling.

You are trolling me.

Yet, you claim I live in a cave for being a troll.

You're brilliant.

Anybody want to be serious for a change and talk about the need to rethink how we decide where to allow people to build with our tax money, or should we just ignore the problem and watch these people or their children go through this all over again as we dish out more money for them because we feel sorry for them.”

“sarge heres an idea...how about we get the survivors help and the bodies counted first?”

“naw he had rather complain that his tax dollars are going to be used to rebuild the area.

I am sure SS and his family would appreciate sarge's thoughts and prayers but instead sarge is to worried that SS may get some of sarge's tax money to rebuild SS's and his parents homes.

That is what he gets for living to close to the ocean..right sarge. Shame on him
last edited: 8/31/05 12:46:21 PM”

“Anybody want to be serious for a change and talk about the need to rethink how we decide where to allow people to build with our tax money, or should we just ignore the problem and watch these people or their children go through this all over again as we dish out more money for them because we feel sorry for them.”
Sarge
12:34:55 PM
8/31/05
ignore this user

I'll bite...

After the waters reside (and it is looking like that will take some time) I think they will look into this. Now, the majority of the city of New Orleans is below se level, so would you propose that no building be done here? I don't know if that will happen.

Also, what was the cause here. Did the city flood because part of levee failed, excess rainfall, tidal surge, or a combinations of all? From what the news is reporting, a lot of this is being blamed on the levee. If this is the case, lets say the levee does not fail. How much of the city floods then? I know we probablt cannot answer that now.

Maybe all the city needs is a stronger infrastructure?


Sarge, I hope they address all these questions after the cleanup has been taken care of. I think everyone is focused now on what can be done to save as much as possible.”

“Spirit - Are you down there saving people right now?

Yes Ewker - If you tax dollars are being used in a wasteful way, it's your duty to complain. I know socialists don't understand that concept, which is why you think I've been trolling, but such is life.”

“WK - Are you there saving bodies right now? I think we who aren't can spare a few minutes to discuss where we're going to rebuild instead of waiting until that process is complete.”