The destruction of New Orleans?

“Dayhiker, the National Guard that would normally be there restoring order is in Iraq. I did read that a few states are sending in what National Guard they have left to help out.”

“Funny Y2. They're not ALL in Iraq, are they?”

“I agree Ewker, but this appears to be a much bigger job than the NG. It's time for the actual Army.”

“well I know Dayhiker - it was a little tongue-in-cheek. I agree they should have been ready to go in with choppers and amphibious vehicles alike after warning for so many years what would happen to NO if a big storm hit. Thing was for the city the storm itself wasn't as bad as it could have been. It was a cat 5 heading straight for the city a few hours before.”

“We can get boots on the ground anywhere in the world in a day, this is Thursday, where are they. Pres. Bush needs to get the fed in high gear.”
dayhiker
1:20:51 PM


so now this is bush's fault?

typical.

note: this message endorsed by sarge”

“Maybe the U.N. could help...>8^)

Baltimore has tens of thousands of uninhabited homes, like Detroit.

Bawlmer could use some jobs too.”

“"About 40 percent of Mississippi’s National Guard force, 35 percent of Louisiana’s and 23 percent of Alabama’s are deployed abroad."
- http://www.lovelandfyi.com/opinion-story.asp?ID=1930”

“U.S. Won't Relocate Soldiers for Katrina By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer
5 minutes ago (off yahoo news)


DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - There will be no large-scale shifting of U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with disaster relief in Louisiana and Mississippi, a U.S. Central Command spokesman said Thursday.

Lt. Col. Trey Cate said top military officials are exploring ways to bring individual troops home to take care of families in need without altering the balance of forces in the war zones.

But top commanders are unsure if homecoming service members can yet visit areas stricken by Hurricane Katrina due to flooding and evacuations that are under way.

"There are lots of different options of getting soldiers back there," said Cate, who is based in Qatar. "We're going to do our best to take care of the troops and their families."

In Baghdad, some 3,700 soldiers from the Louisiana National Guard's 256th Enhanced Separate Brigade were preparing to return to their base in Lafayette, La., after spending nearly a year in combat in Iraq.

The 256th is expected to begin the trip home within weeks, and would be available for disaster relief at the discretion of Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco, said Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, spokesman for the U.S. military command in Baghdad.

"They are not going to redeploy early as they are already in the process of redeployment," Boylan said.

Navy Cmdr. Jeff Breslau, a U.S. 5th Fleet spokesman in Bahrain, said no U.S. warships in the Gulf would be redirected to disaster relief in the Gulf of Mexico, but individual sailors with family emergencies could be granted home leave.

National Guard units called up for rescue work in Louisiana and Mississippi had to make do without members currently deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

National Guard troops from Alabama and Wisconsin, along with other law enforcers, were ordered to deal with the shortfall.

Most Americans identify the National Guard with providing emergency services during natural disasters. But in the past three years, numerous Guard units have been sent to Iraq to fight alongside regular forces.

The Louisiana brigade watched the disaster unfold on television as they finished their nearly yearlong deployment to Camp Liberty, west of Baghdad. The troops are expected to leave Iraq by November, if their deployment is not extended.

Boylan said the Army was providing the Louisiana Guardsmen extra Internet and phone lines to contact family and friends affected by the hurricane.

Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle agreed to send 500 Wisconsin National Guard troops to Louisiana Wednesday to help out. The Wisconsin Guard itself is stretched, with 1,700 members serving in Iraq and Afghanistan and another 1,000 mobilizing for deployment overseas.

Blanco said she has asked the White House to send more rescue workers to free up the 4,000 National Guard troops already in New Orleans to stop looting and return law and order to the flooded city.

A brigade of Mississippi National Guard soldiers also remains in Iraq, attached to the II Marine Expeditionary Force.

More than 1,600 Mississippi National Guardsmen were activated to help with the recovery, and the neighboring Alabama Guard was planning to send two battalions to Mississippi to help cover the shortfall.”

“I'm just saying, and this is probably an untimely analogy, but the humanitarian issue we have here is a flood and it appears that they're only sticking fingers in the dike. This would seem to call for a bold, wide sweeping response. There are hundreds, if not thousands of square miles of devastation. 20,000 NG'smen isn't enough. 100k Army regulars maybe.”

“Other countries are more inportant than ours.”

“hehehe, I said stick fingers in the dike. Sorry guys.”

“"they're only sticking fingers in the dike."

teehee teehee!”

“Sicko!”

“Other countries are more inportant than ours.”
Wounded Knee
12:32:42 PM
9/01/05

sad but true :(

BTW how many countries have come to help us with this disaster..none that I know of. If this happened in another country the US would be sending anything and everything to help out”

“Helping Americans would be "social engineering".......

Helping Iraqis is "spreading democracy".....”

“you guys will find anything to complain about won't you. do you really expect that things could have been taken care of overnight?

make sure you come back and complain about how things were taken care of when they are done.”

“baume, it hasn't been overnight. Cops are on their own, looters and gangs are taking over. People are wondering where the help will come from. Normally it is the Guard that helps but they aren't there. That isn't complaining that is facts”

“Rule of Threes:

Freeze in three hours(does not apply here, no schit!)

Dehydrate in three days

Starve in three weeks”

“Several countries have offered help Ewker. Bush says we can handle it just fine, thank you.”

“BTW how many countries have come to help us with this disaster..none that I know of. If this happened in another country the US would be sending anything and everything to help out”
Ewker
1:37:31 PM



ewker, do you know how much the US really helps out other countries?

there is a pervading myth that we, the US send crap loads of money and aid all the time to help out other nations when they're in need, like the Tsunami.

actually, the amount of aid we send is pitiful. especially compared to our GNP (or any other measure of our wealth)

there are many other first world nations that send out boatloads more international aid then us.”

“Especially seeing they were talking of a 30ft storm surge potentially hitting NO, where the levees are what 15ft?. That didn't happen, but it doesn't appear they were ready for much at all.”

“the mass life threatening violence did happen overnight. it wasn't as chaotic yesterday ewker. i understand panic is setting in. it doesn't mean guardspeople and law enforcement should risk walking into gunfire.

if they started shooting people to regain control (which it will probably come to) everyone would be complaining about that.

maybe you can come up with a suggestion on how it should be handled. how do you get 50,000 people out at the same time? you can't. and nobody is going to wait for the next bus.

in my opinion, it will take brute force, including the death of thugs and probably some innocent bystanders.”

“The hurricane victims are in trouble.

Bush in yesterday's speech:

"The folks on the Gulf Coast are going to need the help of this country for a long time. This is going to be a difficult road. The challenges that we face on the ground are unprecedented, but there's no doubt in my mind that we're going to succeed."

That's what he says about Iraq before the next round of attacks takes place.”

“sacco, so we aren't #1 at sending out aid. But we do send out aid for any disaster that happens. Maybe we need to stop and see what happens. You can't take care of the whole world”

“About Cops looting.

Dunno about each individual situation but under a state of emergency order, local government officals (cops, firemen, the Mayor ect.) have to right to seize goods and materials to aid in their efforts to maintain order.

Yes it is legal for them to snag food, water, gas, generators ect., No it's not legal for them to snag plasma TVs, tommy hillfiger jeans and jewelery.”

“But Ewker, any repsonse lacking here has not come about because of the aid sent to other nations.
last edited: 9/01/05 1:05:01 PM”

“Just wait til a month from now when New Orleans will become a gated construction site. Can you say Halliburton.
last edited: 9/01/05 1:04:54 PM”

“not #1?

not even in the top 20 if you go by GNP!


somehow, we still manage to spend the most (BY FAR) "helping out" other nations militarily.

gee, i wonder which is better recieved?”

“baume, I agree you can't get 50,000 people out a once esp when they start shooting at the helicopters to get the sick out or stopping an ambulance and pulling the medics and sick out and taking it for themselves.
All you can do is move what guard,police an army in to try and restore order. If it takes getting rough on them so be it.
I have no problem shooting (rubber bullets) them for stealing not essentials (TV's, fur coats, jewerly, etc). Food and medicine is another matter. Until that time they keep looting.

Wonder how a taser would work in water”

“ewker, do you know how much the US really helps out other countries?

there is a pervading myth that we, the US send crap loads of money and aid all the time to help out other nations when they're in need, like the Tsunami.

actually, the amount of aid we send is pitiful. especially compared to our GNP (or any other measure of our wealth)

there are many other first world nations that send out boatloads more international aid then us.”
sacco
12:47:17 PM
9/01/05

I have seen the numbers that list the percent of GNP countries contribute as aid. The numbers do not include the military contribution. Add the amount of money spent by the US for military assistance and the rest of the world does not come close.”

“But that cash is destined to support America's global interests and foreign policy - it's not some altruistic donation.”

“My brother has been activated out of GA to airlift people to safety out of New Orleans.

He was told the situation is so desperate they expect people to mob towards the helicopters. His orders are to lift off and fly circles above the crowd until the scene calms down. I bet he'll be flying alot of circles.

It'd be awfully difficult to stand in an orderly line in a situation like that. I can't imagine the waiting or the rescuing.
last edited: 9/01/05 1:17:11 PM”

“I would imagine that a good portion of the problems stem from the fact that the drug trade has come to a screeching halt.

Someone who is doing a couple rocks a day suddenly gets cut off?

From my experiences with former clients, I would imagine they would pick up a gun and try to boost any means of transportation to get out of there and back to where they can get high.

Now, combine that with sheer panic, and you have today's New Orleans.”

“Sass - our prof liability insurance guy is a Blackhawk pilot out of Jackson, MS. It's going to be interesting to hear his stories next time I bump into him.

I hope your brother stays safe.”

“I just heard on the radio the looters are firing on search and rescue helicopters. =(

So freakin' pathetic.

It's more than sad when people trying to rescue their own countrymen from a disaster are getting shot at by them.
last edited: 9/01/05 1:27:38 PM”

“chili - hadn't thought about that. Certainly would explain some of the problem. No one can doubt that some of the people there are Jonesin' horribly. Add in the lack of food, water, and stability and they'd try to hijack Air Force One if they could.

Then add in the others that are just dealing with the lack of normal things, and, well...”

“Geo - don't you know by now that Bush is a f*ckin' idiot? That every word which dribbles out of the corner of his mouth and lands on a microphone like a septic pustule is loaded with the utmost insincerity and ignorance? He's a total putz...which I recently learned means little pen*s.”

“Well, at least when they rebuild, they can make the place nicer to attract more tourists. Some towns in WA from what I've heard vote on what kind of theme they want the town to reflect to attract vacationers. They can be Bavarian or wild west themes with wood boardwalks and overhanging roofs and store fronts that reflect the era.

To outsiders, it would appear that it is a real town established by German people or a leftover refurbished wild west town when it's brand spanking new.

The big question, will they restore the French quarter with prostitues and topless places again to keep the same theme as before, lol:)”

“More tourists? Have you ever been to NO?


While insignificant at this time, the National D Day museum just came to mind. Think of all the WWII items that have been lost.”

“Those things haven't been lost, dayhiker. They were looted 2 days ago and are being used to keep people alive (tents) - and shoot at the helicopters trying to rescue them.”

“dayhiker, my sister went to NO and I didn't see many people in the pictures around her. I have to ask her when she went. I think it may have been their low season. Actually, if you can remember, it was when they were evacuating the time before this from a hurricane that was bearing down.”

“Umm.....yeah.
They really pack 'em in during evacuation time.”

“Gee, I wonder which has more tourism, NO or the entire states of WA and OR combined? It's NO in a landslide.

tech - too funny.”

“Gosh, I need to drink a beer, I'm starting to act like Sarge.”

“WHere are all the people that did evacuate? There's been absolutey nothing about them in the news.”

“I vote on the Bavarian theme for this French town. Bavarian/Germans are very popular with the French. Maybe the canals could be modeled after the Seigfried line.”

“TB - they are in hotels all across the SE. The local churches in my town are feeding the ones that are here. We're a 6 hr drive from NO.

The AD at U of A has asked all fans coming to Tuscaloosa for game weekend to give up their rooms. Tuscaloosa is at about 90% occupancy this week with folks evac'ing the store.

The Birmingham-Jefferson Civic Center has several hundred evacs.
last edited: 9/01/05 2:19:14 PM”

“i don't think i'll ever listen to mary C. Carpenter's song about NO again in the same way.

They got an alligator stew and a crawfish pie
A gulf storm blowing into town tonight
Living on the delta's quite a show
They got hurricane parties every time it blows”

“They did not evacuate because they didn't think this was going to be a big deal. Everyone thought they could ride it out.

Some did leave, but a lot did not.

An Army Corp of Engineers guys was just interviewed about the efforts to plug up the levee that is the cause of most of the flooding. They are going to be dropping massive amouts of sandbags into the breech to see if it can be stopped.

He said though the damage has already been done. These flood waters are going to take months to pump out. By that time 80% of the buildings underwater will have been or will have to be destroyed.

The city of New Orleans will cease to exist.”

“The water probably won't hurt the structure of the buildings much. Wood doesn't really rot underwater, so even wood building could be ok. Sheetrock, paneling and the like are toast, but the structure is probably ok. Most of the buildings in the old section are masonry anyway.”