Should I join The Sierra Club?

“Seriously. I just got a Sierra Club mailer and I am thinking about joining. I totally agree that the Bush repeal of the "Roadless Rule" is complete BS. I would like the ANWR not to be drilled for oil, but understand later down the line if it HAS to be. I love the outdoors and would like to ensure that there's some real wilderness left for my kids to backpack in. I also recycle and try to obey smog alert guidelines.

I'm a 33 y/o union firefighter. And I have always voted Republican, including voting 2x for Bush. I own 2 SUV's and a pickup truck, support hunting(even though I don't personally hunt), and I am a member of an off-roading Jeep club. I'll own an ATV soon as well. I'm not an NRA member(used to be) but I own 9 guns. I'm not "anti-liberal" but am definitely not a liberal. I believe, in America, there is both room and a need for both idiologies, and that's still what makes this country great.

Knowing all that, should I join the Sierra Club, or would that just be hyprocracy to the Nth degree? I swear I am NOT a troll trying to stir up #&%!$; I just think I'll get about as honest a group of opinions here as anywhere. I don't post a ton here, but read here daily, and I would like to hear what you have to say.

Thanks, Bigben”

“Seriously. I just got a Sierra Club mailer and I am thinking about joining. I totally agree that the Bush repeal of the "Roadless Rule" is complete BS. I would like the ANWR not to be drilled for oil, but understand later down the line if it HAS to be. I love the outdoors and would like to ensure that there's some real wilderness left for my kids to backpack in. I also recycle and try to obey smog alert guidelines.

I'm a 33 y/o union firefighter. And I have always voted Republican, including voting 2x for Bush. I own 2 SUV's and a pickup truck, support hunting(even though I don't personally hunt), and I am a member of an off-roading Jeep club. I'll own an ATV soon as well. I'm not an NRA member(used to be) but I own 9 guns. I'm not "anti-liberal" but am definitely not a liberal. I believe, in America, there is both room and a need for both idiologies, and that's still what makes this country great.

Knowing all that, should I join the Sierra Club, or would that just be hyprocracy to the Nth degree? I swear I am NOT a troll trying to stir up #&%!$; I just think I'll get about as honest a group of opinions here as anywhere. I don't post a ton here, but read here daily, and I would like to hear what you have to say.

Thanks, Bigben”

“no...join the FSA instead
Fence
Sitters
Anonymous

j/k”

“also join DPA

Double
Posters
Anonymous”

“If ya want a cool sticker for your suv. I don't even open their propagandawhen it finds it's way into my mail.”

“Did you post this on midwesthiker too?

I wish I knew more about politics and the ins and outs of the system. I am a member of our local chapter of the Sierra Club here. I know some people have major problems with the organization, but with what exactly, I don't know.

Obviously, you will take some of the responses you get here with a grain of salt. I think you made the right move asking what people think about their chapters.”

“Seriously though, I'm with WK. I didn't even realize they had a huge political side. I just thought it was a club for people who loved the outdoors and wanted to help preserve it. If you're joining it for political reasons you might want to look elsewhere.”

“"There's nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win. Then you write history."
-Sierra Club board member Paul Watson

"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot birds," says Watson (as quoted in Access to Energy, 1982).

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/194
last edited: 9/07/05 5:17:28 PM”

“WK my problem with the Sierra Club is that they're full of #&%!$ aka propoganda.

I get their mailers constantly, I make sure I shred them so no one would suspect that I'd join such an organization. You'd think they'd save the forest and not send me so much worthless paper on a monthly basis.”

“I agree with you Bison. The mass mailings are a bit ridiculous (did I spell that right?)”

“No, this is the only place I posted it. More brutal honsety and political threads here. The DPA was funny and "My bad", but the FSA, while kinda funny, hits at the crux of my dilemma. What I posted is 100% truth. Is it OK to join a group, particularly an outspoken one, if you are only passionate about SOME of what they fight for? And I could care less about "being in a group" per se. I'm in enough groups. I support some of their big issues and can show that support by joining. But I am the anti-poster child for some of their other issues.

Keep it coming.”

“bigben, in my opinion, I wouldn't join the Sierra Club. I have long been a member in the past, but when they went political beyond the environment, and supporting killing unborn babies and taking positions on illegal immigration and international trade and a bunch of other bullcrap, I left. Also, when you join you will be inundated by mass mailings, making you realize all you did was pay so they could send you mailings so you can donate more.

I would donate directly to environmental causes that are dear to you and NOT through the Sierra Club, aka, Club Sierra. They have huge downtown highrise headquarters and huge salaries for their management. It's like a Fortune 500 corporation.

Check out this series of articles in the Sacramento Bee called "The Environment, Inc." It's very enlightening about many environmental groups. There are more articles on the sidebar.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/archive/news/projects/environment/20010422.html”

“Oops, looks like Nigal linked to the same series of articles from the Sacramento Bee. It's well worth the read... go through each article if you can, it's very interesting. And yes, I'm pro-environment. I don't think Bush is wise when it comes to environmental matters, nor is the Republican Party in general.”

“LOL! Snooz ya lose!”

“Working professionally as an Environmental Specialist I cannot say from my experience dealing with the Sierra Club that they always act in the best interest of the environment.
last edited: 9/07/05 5:48:29 PM”

“Another vote NOT to join. They are actually hurting the environment by taking radical positions & refusing to intelligently debate / discuss issues. They are WAYYY too political, and it breaks my heart to see them act that way because I am an environmentalist, and would like to see more positive actions taken, but they are simply going about it the wrong way.

For the life of me I can't understand why groups such as this can't see that they're shooting themselves in the foot with some of their abrasice tactics. How many posters now have said they're environmental supporters but not Sierra Club suppporters?

Get a clue you guys!”

“To be honest, at least they are doing something. You might not agree with evrything they do, like those of strong Republican views who have responded here, but I don't see too many other strong voices out there that are oppoing the facilitation of the destruction of the environment that's going on.

But yes, they maybe do need to narrow their agenda, best to try to that from the inside I guess.”

“Membership in the Sierra Club is cheap, so why not.

For the environment, contributions of substantial time and money would be better invested in one of the 'land trust' organizations which actively acquire and maintain substantial quantities of wildland these days all over the US.

Better yet, spend your time and money (possibly in partnership with other individuals) acquiring wildland yourself and just let it be.
last edited: 9/07/05 7:29:59 PM”

“BigBen: I'd suggest you go to their website and learn what you can about what they are trying to do. Look at the legislation they support and the projects they are undertaking. If you agree with 80% of it or more, join. If not, think about which things they are doing that are most important to you - and find a group with a narrower focus or at least a different focus.

As far as I know the Sierra Club isn't anti-hunting or anti-gun. I believe I remember them making alliances with hunting groups in the past. I'm not sure where they are on ATVs and off road jeeps - I'm sure they want some areas to be off limits to all motorized vehicles - but you'll have to see if you are comfortable with where they are on those issues.

If Sierra Club doesn't pass your test, you might look for a group that is pro-hunting and pro-conservation. That mix might lead you to something you are more comfortable with. You might even look for hunting organizations and see what groups they feel comfortable with that advocate for your concerns about conservation and the roadless rule.”

“Y2, this is for you, and I want to state up-from I am posting it with the utmost respect for your views.

First, your comments: "“To be honest, at least they are doing something. You might not agree with evrything they do, like those of strong Republican views who have responded here, but I don't see too many other strong voices out there that are oppoing the facilitation of the destruction of the environment that's going on.

1. Whether I am Republican or not is irrelevant. I am an environmentalist & would like to see more lands preserved, etc., just as any Liberal would.

2. Yes they "are doing something". Unfortunately, what they are doing is irritating a vast number of environmentalists who would potentially support them by veering off-subject into areas they have no business going. They are no longer percieved as an "Environmental" group, but as a radical group outside the maainstream with whom one cannot debate. Thus, they then are doing their primry cause harm, not good, as many now view "Sierra Clubbers" as radicals who want no part of compromise or debate.

3. With joint co-operation & compromise, it's possible to have both protection of the environment and (sometimes) satisfaction of business interestes. As an example, one can enter into an agreement that a business might expand here or there, but must plant XX number of trees and protect XX # acres of wetlands as a part of their agreement.

EVERYONE has their own agenda's, whether we are leftists or righties. The key is to at least communicate so that we can reach some compromise that allows both sides to walk away as a "victor" in some respects. Groups like the Sierra Club can tolerate NO growth, that is simply foolish... we NEED growth to sustain population increases, etc., let's just manage it properly by WORKING TOGETHER to achieve our mutual goals.”

“Thanks everyone who responded. I won't be joining. I figured politics and radicalism were somehow involved with this entity, I just didn't realize to what extent. It reminds me of why I quit sending membership dues in to the NRA. Back then, the whole "Assault Weapons ban" was like ALL they ranted about. As I previously stated, I'm a gun owner x9 and an Ohio CCW licence holder. I'm good friends with a gun dealer, and have tons of friends who own guns and shoot them often. Yet I've never met someone who really either wants or definitely needs a fully automatic AK-47. I didn't have a problem with the ban and still don't, but if you listened to the crap the NRA was spewing out, you'd think that as soon as that legislation got passed, all guns would be gathered up and destroyed. I still support their primary charge, to uphold the 2nd Amendment. I wish they wouldn't get so passionately wrapped up in all the BS. Also, I'm an IAFF union member, and this past election, they urged the membership to vote for Kerry. I didn't and still don't like him and I wasn't about to let other people make up my mind for me.

No, I won't be a Sierra Club member anytime soon. Nor will you find me chained to a tree to "protect" it. Nor will you find me "praising the courage and strength" of the people who are. That's just wacky IMO. And once again, thanks and sorry if I shook a hornet's nest.

Bigben”

“bigben, I don't think you researched the club's national site very well. They are clear about their desire for clean water, air, land, protecting nature, clean sources of energy, stopping sprawl, and stopping global warming.

Yes they are for family planning. If the population continues its current geometric increase (3 billion to 6 billion in the last 20 years!), then we'll all have to deal with world-wide famine (including right here) and mass deaths in 20 more years. NO, they aren't for abortion! Just proper education.

Yes, they are political. If they weren't they wouldn't have a chance to stand up to political drives to destroy the environment. Perfect example is the increase in oil drilling. The Sierra Club doesn't chain itself to trees - what good does that do? It forms strong political ties to combat the problem at the source. You need to fight fire with fire. Members would rather be out enjoying nature, but sometimes you need to do things you don't like, such as getting involved in politics.

In recent years there have been "infiltrations" of left-wing takeover attempts on the Board. The last elections have seen massive reversals of those attempts. Some of the more nasty comments you've quoted on this thread are attributed to the wild weirdos that the majority of the Club has recently voted out.

I originally joined to get more hiking opportunities, and to support the environment. I realized after-the-fact that they had the deeper political roots. So be it. They do far more good than bad, so they get my support. I've even run the local chapter's web site for the last 2 1/2 years.

Please talk with local chapter board members to get a feel for the real standing your chapter takes, before bashing SC as one big nut case. Thanks.”

“Point taken. I spent a little time on the SC National site, but not hours. And I don't think all the members are wackos who chain themselves to trees. But the gist I got from their site is that they just 110% hate the Bush Administration in all aspects. I think the Bush Administration sucks overall in terms of it's environmental policies and ideologies, but still support it as a whole and will continue to do so. I just feel that if I joined this club, believing and thinking as I do, I would be angered by the rhetoric more frequently than not. For example, regarding the "population issues," the United States is not the "culprit" to be worrying about in terms as global population that they make it out to be. I am not flat-out anti-Sierra Club; it's just not the organization for me.”

“BigBen -

I think you made the right decision for you and this is coming from someone who disgrees takes the opposite view from Bush on the the majority of major controversies.
Hopefully you'll find a conservation organization with a narrower political agenda or a land conservancy group that tries to set aside conservation land without wading as deeply into national politics.”

“fires are a natural part of the planets growth. we are all guests on her and need to respect her. the saddle project should be ruled unconstitutional as it infringes on our country's right to life”