Camera decisions

“I reeeeeaaaaly want the 5D because of the full frame sensor and 12.8 megapixels.....but I could buy the 20D and the other lens that has been on my wish ist for quite some time... the 70-200 f/2.8 IS "L" for about $300 less than the 5D alone...what to do?

I am a little leary of buying from the first run of the 5Ds as well.”

“I dunno.. i do like the 5fps of the 20d...but soo wanting full frame.

stole this from dpreview.com

last edited: 9/19/05 2:21:15 AM”

“The whole equation can be solved using a little math. Unfortunately I suck at math, so we'll make it a story problem. How large do you generally make your reprints? How large would you go if you could? That's the first part of the equation.

Secondly, are you able to get as wide as you want with your current selection of wide angle lenses? If not, then perhaps the full-frame sensor is essential?

The third consideration is moot due to the increased resolution the 5D sensor has, and that is the "crop factor" that presents itself as a magnification factor with your film lenses. Since you can crop the 5D image to the size of the 20D sensor, and not lose pixels in comparison, that isn't a factor.

What would I do? I think I'd buy the new body considering the type of work that you do. There is nothing that grabs the eye like a HUGE print of a stunning landscape, every part of it tack sharp from corner to corner. My 2 cents.”

“Hey... I just did a little reading, and it appears that the 5D is so new it isn't even available yet... is that true? If that's the case, I'd definately wait a few months before I did anything if I were you. Buy your new IS lens, and start saving your money for the 5D. By the time you get enough put away, the price will have dropped and all the bugs in their firmware will have been discovered and fixed.”

““The whole equation can be solved using a little math. Unfortunately I suck at math, so we'll make it a story problem. How large do you generally make your reprints? 16" x 20" How large would you go if you could? "20 x 30" That's the first part of the equation.
Secondly, are you able to get as wide as you want with your current selection of wide angle lenses? Yes If not, then perhaps the full-frame sensor is essential?

The third consideration is moot due to the increased resolution the 5D sensor has, and that is the "crop factor" that presents itself as a magnification factor with your film lenses. Since you can crop the 5D image to the size of the 20D sensor, and not lose pixels in comparison, that isn't a factor.

What would I do? I think I'd buy the new body considering the type of work that you do. There is nothing that grabs the eye like a HUGE print of a stunning landscape, every part of it tack sharp from corner to corner. My 2 cents.”
Hey... I just did a little reading, and it appears that the 5D is so new it isn't even available yet... is that true? YesIf that's the case, I'd definately wait a few months before I did anything if I were you. Buy your new IS lens, and start saving your money for the 5D. By the time you get enough put away, the price will have dropped and all the bugs in their firmware will have been discovered and fixed.”
That's pretty much what I kept coming up with....not sure how I'm going to talk the Mrs into both though ;)

Thanks!”

“Wind Walker, just keep selling those pictures to the Forest Service and the wife won't mind”

“I looked at the 5D, but basically starting from scratch with a DSLR (I has an old film EOS body) I couldn't run to the cost of the 5D and the lenses. It also seems pretty certain that Canon is gonna go full frame on all it's cameras over the next few years - so I decided to get the 20D and hold off until there's something cheaper on the market.
There is talk of a 20D replacement come the new year, based on Canon's product lifespan, as to what that'll offer, who knows, and I guess you'd never have any camera if you waited for the latest, greatest thing.”

“I agree with Hobbit, but would add getting a really good extended warranty and buying the camera from a store that has a 'full return if not satisfied' policy, just in case the 'first run' has a problem. I'm not that familiar with Canon's history, but I don't remember hearing about problems with their new model cameras.

I just bet Mrs. Wind Walker will be fine with it, especially if you buy everything from photo profits and the family budget doesn't get it.

This weekend, I went backpacking in Tahoe National Forest and switched to raw after about an hour since it was only a 3-day trip. Time to learn some new skills.”

“The 5D will be a wonderful "landscape" camera with the full sensor and pixel rating. It should be able to support VERY large prints. Make sure you take advantage of the "bracketing" function when doing landscapes.

I am not interested in the 5D because of the 3fps limit. I won't upgrade for less than 8fps. I have had the 10D for over 2 years and love it. It is too heavy for backpacking but I use it anyway. I am a sports photog hobbyist so the 1.6X is not an issue most of the time.

Remember, camera bodies will die LONG before the lens. Think of the camera body as a relative short term item (several years) and spend serious money on the lenses. With care they will last, and should you ever tire of it, the lenses will garner a high value on resell. The body will depreciate over night.”

“I'd go with the 20D and the 70-200 lens Michael.”

“I've got the 70-200 F4 L, only had it for a week-and-a-bit, but some pics at the zoo came back looking amazing. Printed one out, and even with a substantial crop the sharpness and contrast of that lens is phenominal. I'd love the 2.8 with the IS, but it's gonna be a while before I can stretch that far - the forest service is not asking me to take pictures for it, and I doubt it ever will. I'm a long-way off the standard of your pictures.
last edited: 9/19/05 11:05:04 AM”

“Hmmm... this whole digital stuff is interesting. I really do not like spending big money on things digital because it is such a rapidly depreciating asset. Spending $3-4,000 on a camera that will probably be $500 in 3 years is just hard to swallow. Your digi Rebel takes sweet photos and the jump to a 20D is not worth it to me. You'd be upgrading to a camera that still has a crop factor and you're only getting a couple more heckapixels in size. The full-frame of the 5D is what it's all about for landscape photographers, I hate that crop factor with my 20D, but the 5D is a LOT of cashola. You could buy a top-of-the-line Canon film camera AND a top-of-the-line Nikon Super Coolscan scanner for that much and get suh-weet results. My next camera will most likely be a medium format Pentax 67II. I see 'em on ebay with lenses for under a grand now. I'm still not sold on digital over film as far as quality of enlargements... but I'm talking gallery-quality exhibition stuff and not the average 8x10 for your own wall or to sell for $59 to someone else. I still love that Velvia, man! It's so deep and rich.

I may eventually buy a used 5D or 1Ds and let someone else take the depreciation hit, but I'm holding out for digital sensors that don't get so many dust bunnies on them. They need to take care of that problem with digital slrs, it's serious.

As for lenses, that's a sweet lens, but if you're doing much backpacking you might wanna opt for the f/4 version of the Canon 70-200 L. I have it and it's very sharp and very light compared to the IS version you're referring to. Especially if you're shooting digital, you can quickly bump up the ISO so the super fast shutter versions aren't as critical as with film. At least in my opinion. But I'm married now and gaining weight and losing hair so I'm on my way out.”

“what is the difference between the 70-200mm Lens and the 75-300mm lens.”

“Ewker....if it's the one we were talking about the other day....about $1,500 LOL!

If you get the non IS version it's a lot less money...but still in the $800 range.”

“So WW - what about the 5D and the F4 lens ;o) - just to throw another layer of confusion into the mix.”

“oh, way to much for me. Think I will stick with the 75-300mm version”

“Y2- I want the f/2.8 because it uses the same 77mm filters as my other two "L"lenses... and it will handle the really low light situations as well.

Good points Buck!”

“I was just trying to be difficult WW ;o)”

“anyway to tell who manufactured a lens. I have an old lens(20 yrs old) that went on a 35mm film camera. The camera was bought at Sears I think. Thatis the only name on the camera other than a sticker that said made in Japan. Nothing on the lens”

“But I'm married now and gaining weight and losing hair so I'm on my way out. - Buck

Good points Buck! - Wind Walker

Well, you didn't hafta AGREE with me! :Þ”

“I'd shy away from the non-L zooms with the exception of the 17-40 and the 28-135.

I have the 70-200 2.8L, 300 2.8L, and the 200 1.8L (the 1.8L is the bomb for night sports). The 1.4X extender is a must with the 70-200 and works with all the other L-lenses.

The 28-135 IS is and excellent and relatively cheap zoom. I tend to go with my 17-40 as a walk-around lens since my 10D has the 1.6X factor. With the 5D the 28-135 would be sweet.”

“Hey Ewk, I found this page with a little info.”

“It may also be a Ricoh, Ewk.”

“I'd shy away from the non-L zooms with the exception of the 17-40 and the 28-135.

Hey ChinMusic, I'm assuming you're referring to the Canon 17-40? If so, it is "L" glass.”

“bit, thanks for the link”

“I looked but couldn't find a page with a listing of who made Sears cameras in what year. If you still have the camera, you might try comparing it with pictures of Ricoh, Mamiya, and Pentax cameras of the same era.”

“I will check it out. Nothing to lose. It has been in its case for 20 yrs. Still in excellent shape. I bet it was never used more than 3-4 times. Heck if I can find any info on it the thing will be on ebay.”

“WW, I've been going over the same question, still shooting film with 20-35 2.8L & 70-200 2.8L lenses. I'm waiting until the end of the year, but probably going to get a 20D, trade my wide 2.8 for the 17-40 4L, and look at full frame in a year. The 70-200 2.8L is a beautiful lens, but it often gets left at home, it's too darn heavy for back packing. If I were buying today I'd get the 70-200 4L or give the new 70-300 DO lens a look”

“Doug...I carried the Canon 300mm "L" f/4 IS around for eight days in July plus my three legged anchor (Gitzo Tripod)....that reminds me I must look into this carbon fiber thing too. :)”

“Wind Walker, it was easy for you to carry all that when you had your son carry everything else ;)”

“Buck - You're right. I just forgot that fact as I think my 28-135 is not that far behind. Maybe I just got a bad copy of the 17-40 as I have not been as impressed with it as the other "L" lenses.

I found my 28-135 just wasn't wide enough for my fishing trips when using the 10D. I needed to go wider to get those monsters in the frame without falling out of the boat.....heheh”

“You're right Ewker....just don't know why I didn't think of that on the first day!”

“With regards to extenders, the 1.4X is quality. The 2X is not worth much, as you can blow the file up 2X on the computer and get just about the same result, and sometimes better. The 1.4X is the way to go if you want an extender.”

“I have the Canon 1.4x, it gives my 300mm that little extra reach...but the images are a tad softer than if I just use the 300mm by itself. Sometimes I just shoot the 300 and crop a bit.”

“Well I bought the 20D that Gem found for $950. I almost bought a second D-Reb for a back up last month and it was close to $700 with shipping.

I get asked to do weddings pretty frequently...and there is no way I would do one with only one camera....so I have been turning down the opportunities.

This will do me for now...not a huge investment and I gain quite a few features.

I still want the 5D....just want to wait and let them work out the bugs first.
Besides I still have some fancy glass to buy :)”

“Buck - You're right. I just forgot that fact as I think my 28-135 is not that far behind. Maybe I just got a bad copy of the 17-40 as I have not been as impressed with it as the other "L" lenses.

My 17-40 L is my favorite lens and quite sharp so you may have just gotten a bad copy or something. Shhhh... it happens. And it's also visually easy to confuse the 17-40 as non-L glass since it doesn't have the traditional "Canon white" lens coloring that distinguishes their L lenses.

Hey Wind Walker, congrats on the 20D purchase, that's awesome! I would've sold you mine for $949 though.”

“sure...now you tell me.”

“Congrats on the new camera Michael!

How did your show go on Saturday?”

“If it makes you feel any better, I charge $423.79 for shipping and handling.”

“Hey Wind Walker, I've been meaning to ask you. Do you do any nudes? If so, after a couple more tanning sessions, I'll be over with my wallet, and nothing else.”

“Well I did this one nude...



Ok Buck...I'll get the snapping towel ready.”

“OOoooOOOoOOOoo. Now that is what I call bare neked. She has a few more nips than I prefer, but still. Oh, the look in her eye.
last edited: 9/19/05 6:32:41 PM”

“"She has a few more nips than I prefer, but still. Oh, the look in her eye."
Picky Picky...LOL!”

“It went very well Mike!”

“The other day I broke a small clip off a connector door on my olympus digital camera. THis clip holds the door shut. Maybe a minor problem but this camera was very weather resistant & I take it hiking. So I contact Olympus, expecting a major repair bill. Turns out they hook me up with their parts dept who charge me $5 for a complete replacement door (easy install) and $2 for shipping. Amazing.”

“Ok, so I need a polarizing filter for the whopping great 77mm wide angle lens I now have. What are people using out there. It's it worth splashing out on a B+W, or a thin filter.
Also I've not been so impressed with how they work on brining out colors on Digis. Any way to get em bringing out some more blue in the sky?”

“I'm using the "Moose" filter, or at least I was until I bought my new lens. Need to get one in the larger diameter.

Tha filter is a CP and a 81A warming filter in one.”

“Y2, my circular polarizer works the same with my digital SLR as it does with my film SLR. You are changing the quality of the light, and both film and digital sensors are sensitive to that light. I can't imagine that one would react differently than the other.

As for using a polarizing filter in general, the maximum effect is achieved while shooting at a 90 degree angle to the sun. The further you get away from that angle, the less it is able to polarize the sun's rays.”

“well i guess I'm comparing it to shooting slide film, which is where I saw the really dramtic effects.
So lets try again asking if there are any settings which might boost the sensitivity of the camera to a polarizinf filter?
last edited: 9/21/05 3:37:30 PM”