Global Warming

“XL, you can choose to believe whatever you want (and usually do).

The bottom line is China has better MPG standards than we do, and as a result no American car companies can sell cars in China. It just makes Bush's recent MPG increase look pathetic.”

“How much smoke and hydrocarbons do they put in the air generating the energy to build all those "fuel efficient" cars?”

“LOL..not to count the INCREDIBLE protection of their rivers etc...LOL But to Tech if they are not Americans they have to be perfect.”

“China doesn't have to have big 400hp cars that will transport big fat ass americans.”

“uncliff, interesting perspective.”

“May 15, 2007

Grey Hautaluoma/Dwayne Brown
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-0668/1726

Alan Buis
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
818-354-0474

RELEASE: 07-115

NASA FINDS VAST REGIONS OF WEST ANTARCTICA MELTED IN RECENT PAST

WASHINGTON - A team of NASA and university scientists has found clear
evidence that extensive areas of snow melted in west Antarctica in
January 2005 in response to warm temperatures. This was the first
widespread Antarctic melting ever detected with NASA's QuikScat
satellite and the most significant melt observed using satellites
during the past three decades. The affected regions encompass a
combined area as big as California.

Son Nghiem of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and
Konrad Steffen, director of the Cooperative Institute for Research in
Environmental Sciences at the University of Colorado, Boulder, led
the team. Using data from QuikScat, they measured snowfall
accumulation and melt in Antarctica and Greenland from July 1999
through July 2005.

The melting occurred in multiple distinct regions, including far
inland, at high latitudes and at high elevations, where melt had been
considered unlikely. Evidence of melting was found up to 560 miles
inland from the open ocean, farther than 85 degrees south (about 310
miles from the South Pole) and higher than 6,600 feet above sea
level. Maximum air temperatures at the time of the melting were
unusually high, reaching more than 41 F in one of the affected areas.
They remained above melting for approximately a week.

"Antarctica has shown little to no warming in the recent past with the
exception of the Antarctic Peninsula, but now large regions are
showing the first signs of the impacts of warming as interpreted by
this satellite analysis," said Steffen. "Increases in snowmelt, such
as this in 2005, definitely could have an impact on larger scale
melting of Antarctica's ice sheets if they were severe or sustained
over time."

The satellite's scatterometer instrument sends radar pulses to the ice
sheet surface, measuring the echoed pulses that bounce back. When
snow melts and then refreezes, it changes to ice, just as ice cream
crystallizes when it is left out too long and is then refrozen.
QuikScat can differentiate this icy fingerprint in the snow cover and
can map on a continental scale the extent of strong snowmelt over the
subsequently formed ice layer. Available ground station measurements
validate the satellite result.

The 2005 melt was intense enough to create an extensive ice layer when
water refroze after the melt. However, the melt was not prolonged
enough for the melt water to flow into the sea.

"Water from melted snow can penetrate into ice sheets through cracks
and narrow, tubular glacial shafts called moulins," Steffen said. "If
sufficient melt water is available, it may reach the bottom of the
ice sheet. This water can lubricate the underside of the ice sheet at
the bedrock, causing the ice mass to move toward the ocean faster,
increasing sea level."

Changes in the ice mass of Antarctica, Earth's largest freshwater
reservoir, are important to understanding global sea level rise.
Large amounts of Antarctic freshwater flowing into the ocean also
could affect ocean salinity, currents and global climate.

Nghiem said while no further melting had been detected through March
2007, more monitoring is needed. "Satellite scatterometry is like an
X-ray that sees through snow and finds ice layers beneath as early as
possible," he said. "It is vital we continue monitoring this region
to determine if a long-term trend may be developing."

QuikScat data are helping scientists better understand how Antarctica
and Greenland's ice sheets gain or lose mass. "We need to know what's
coming in and going out of the ice sheets," Nghiem said. "QuikScat
data, combined with data from NASA's IceSat and Gravity Recovery and
Climate Experiment satellites, along with aircraft and ground
measurements, all contribute to more accurate estimates of how the
polar ice sheets are changing."

The study, "Snow Accumulation and Snowmelt Monitoring in Greenland and
Antarctica," appears in the recently published book "Dynamic Planet."


For more information about this study, contact Jim Scott of the
University of Colorado, Boulder, at 303-492-3114 or Adriana Raudzens
Bailey of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental
Sciences, Boulder, at 303-492-6289.

For more information on QuikScat, visit:

http://winds.jpl.nasa.gov


-end-



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“Tilt, you beat me to it. However, the one-time melting event does not contribute (yet) to the proof of global warming. If it happens every year, then yes. The ice shelf collapsing has been a much more on-going event to point to the global changes.


"How much smoke and hydrocarbons do they put in the air generating the energy to build all those "fuel efficient" cars?" - NoProb

NoProb, I already agreed with you on that, see above. They have made little progress on things like coal power plants and water protection, but at least their MPG standards are in the right direction.”

““China doesn't have to have big 400hp cars that will transport big fat ass americans.”

Stay tuned, y'all.

There are a lot of international students at my university and many Asia-Pacific people.
While I can usually tell native Pacific-Asians but their lack of fat without having to hear their accented English, I am starting to see big-butt Chinese girls who are by their accent not Americans.
Hey-hey!!

I suppose that some who send their kids here for college must be affluent and one can see that they are far from starving.”

“if the objective is to 'save the planet', why is mpg standards more important than less overall environmental damage of the traditional autos?”

“tnt, glad you figured that out. Hope you'll also figure out that from a "green" point of view it makes little since to build a hi MPG car if the cost to build it is more pollution than could ever be saved by the car. Their purpose for building a hi MPG car is because gas is expensive. I have seen some of these high MPG cars in the past (not talking about chinese cars, don't know about them) that put out more pollution that any pickup truck. Just cause they don't burn a lot of gas doesn't make them cleaner.”

“"Detroit wants a big piece of the action."

We actually have a big piece of that action. The problem is domestic auto sales that's killing us. Globally, and if you took domestic out of it, "we" do pretty good.”

“See the USA in your Chevrolet???”

“Japanese auto makers are taking over the American market.

Detroit automakers are going bankrupt.

Which group of manufacturers has the highest mpg average?
last edited: 5/16/07 9:06:24 AM”

“With higher quality.”

“"“With higher quality.”"

Generally, you have my support on that claim. However, I will point out that the best cars I have ever owned (which would include VW, Honda, Fiat, and many "Big Three" autos), my present vehicle, a Saturn L300, is by far the best one I have own to date. This is my second Saturn, and I have loved both of them.”

“Just don't go drivin' a Uranus, LaQ.”

“"“Just don't go drivin' a Uranus, LaQ.”"

No Klingon hunting for me, thank you.”

“Japanese auto makers are taking over the American market.

Detroit automakers are going bankrupt.

Which group of manufacturers has the highest mpg average?

The one run by unions?”

“QUE?”

“We haven't heard serious talk of any bankruptcies at all. The big three have made pretty good moves by flatting management. The "anchor around the Three's neck" is the legacy stuff. Chrysler is the only one left with such a bloated condition, the other two have gotten copious amounts of concessions from the unions in order to help keep things moving.”

“Yeah except that all important "keep only dedicated quality workers" concession....LOL.”

“"“Yeah except that all important "keep only dedicated quality workers" concession....LOL.”
XL400236"

As a matter of fact, there has been a fair amount of older rank and file retiring to free up resources for the company; they are not the only ones, either. Every area of the caste is feeling the pinch. Middle management is feeling it the most. The "keep only dedicated quality workers" claim of yours would presently be applied to Administration, not the fat union cat.

At least it appears to me that you are trying to present a "bloated Union" causation claim. It's so hard to tell just what in the hell you say in the first place, that the struggle to decode your posts is quite encumbering.
last edited: 5/16/07 10:10:08 AM”

“it sounds like we're in agreement that thebest solution is to get rid of the specific issues created by the unions.

once that happens, they'll have a fighting chance”

“"once that happens, they'll have a fighting chance"

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It is happening, that's why we are fighting back. The recent sale of Chrysler will be an important pivot point in the whole thing, as well.

Let's us not forget. Just some 6 years ago, the "fat union cat" wasn't getting the stick in the eye like they are now. The Big Three was churning out huge SUV's and both them and the unions were making money hand over fist.

Why did it change?
I don't know; could it be something to do with a dramatic increase in oil? Did the unions have control over that?

If gas was cheap, y'all be raking someone else over the coals, while driving yer SUV's that would be a block long by now, instead of the unions.

When times are tough, it's the union's fault.

When times are great, do you still fault the union?

Funny how it's always someone else's fault....”

“Um I fault the unions for breathing.”

“I fault the unions for your existence.”

“what changed? - competition

They didnt have suv competition, now they do.

Things w re only good b/c there wasnt competition.”

“"what changed? - competition

They didnt have suv competition, now they do.

Things w re only good b/c there wasnt competition."

If you mean to say that by putting more SUVs on the road due to companies entering the SUV market which drove up the cost of oil, then I would have to agree.

Otherwise, there is not any agreement in that statement and I would have to retort by saying that your causality to way off base.”

“China knows there is finite supply and that they will be adding a billion cars. It's a supply and demand thing, not so much an environmental movement.

The U.S., on the other hand, has known about the demise of oil for years but opted to put its head in the sand. Practically the first thing Dumbya did when he got in the White House was cancel Clinton's executive order that the Big 3 produce 10 percent of their vehicle fleet as alternative fuel vehicles in the next 20 years.

Big visionary.”

“perhaps its mo of the point thsat govt shouldnt be running private companies?”

“See, that's where we're not connecting. It's not about the companies, its about quality of life, hell, sustaining life.”

“same justification for the patriot act”

“I think it's been proven that less fuel consumption and less emisssions = good.

There's no proof the Patriot Act has done a lick of good for anyone.”

“I didnt say it has - I said the justification is the same.”

“The Patriot Act has no goal of sustaining life.”

“I'll tell ya what, Cory gets an A+ for tenacity. :)”

“Silly coniberalatives!”

“LOL..since the Patriot act is kinda a Terrorist Prevention...I guess that comment (roseypalmer) reminds me of the Councilman who questioned the need for the fire department in a year that we had fewer major fires.....(LOL)”

“perhaps its mo of the point thsat govt shouldnt be running private companies?”
Corey B
11:06:00 AM
5/16/1952

Nor, in 2007, should the private co's run the gov.”

“I kinda like the way it was orginall designed...where the Private Citizens ran the government...not the other way around.”

“uncliff, right or wrong, thats irrelevant”

“The Patriot Act MUST GO! Even the damn name is is a lie. Looks like it was named just so anyone who opposes it would seem unpatriotic.”

“Most likely you are right Nigal. The problem is that it is part of the BIG Government solution to everything. The concept that individual Americans could take actions to prevent incidents is thrown out the window for more and more control.

Time and again we are seeing Americans willingly give up their responsibility and, (the comminserate freedoms) to FEEL safer.

Imagine after 9/11 if Congress had passed a law protecting any American who took an action against a terrorist from CIVIL action.

This means if Achmed trys to take an Airplane and Billy Bob and his buds, in the process of disarming Achmed just happen to get a little overzealous and break his back, Achmed cannot hire some bleeding heart Pro-bono attorney to file grievance after grievance to bankrupt Billy Bob and his buds who would have to hire and attorney to defend them.”

“Are you smoking crack, XL?”

“I thought this was a thread on global warming”

“Keep up, it's cooling this week, wait...”

“38 degrees this morning at about 3am.

If this is global warming, I say bring it on. May never need to turn the air on this year.”

“Southern Ocean loosing its ability to act as a CO2 sink decades ahead of existing models.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn11876-southern-ocean-already-losing-ability-to-absorb-cosub2sub.html


"The Earth’s carbon sinks absorb about half of all human-produced carbon emissions. The Southern Ocean is one of the biggest sinks, absorbing 15% of CO2 emissions. The gas dissolves into the ocean's surface waters and is stored at cool depths where it is retained far longer than it would be at the warmer surface."

"But since 1958, the Southern Ocean has become windier, mixing up the ocean waters and bringing the cool, carbon-laden waters up to the surface, where they release their gas into the atmosphere."

""Since the beginning of the industrial revolution the world’s oceans have absorbed about a quarter of the 500 gigatonnes of carbon emitted into the atmosphere by humans. The possibility that in a warmer world the Southern Ocean - the strongest ocean sink - is weakening is a cause for concern," says Chris Rapley, director of the British Antarctic Survey."”

“I feel the fingers of the future slowly tightening about my neck, gases and more gases and sometimes less gases.”

“YAAWN...yeah saw that Tech....also heard that in the Puritan era in our history people with small moles were thought to be Feeding the DEVIL.....”