Global Warming

“Like they say: nothing causes quite as much snow as man-made global warming.”

“(IT'S JUST THE FLAVOR OF THE MONTH)

Gee, what ever happened to Acid Rain? It's still happening, but do we hear about it every frick'en day like we used to? nope. And before long, GWII (Global Warming - George Bush) won't be heard about much either.”

“Skeptics Denied Press Credentials at UN Climate Meeting in Bali
By Noel Sheppard | December 4, 2007 - 17:57 ET

Want more proof of just how biased the United Nations is?

A group of reporters representing the conservative newspaper Environment & Climate News were refused press credentials to attend the U.N.'s climate change meeting in Bali this week.

I kid you not.

The paper's publisher, the Heartland Institute, released the following statement Monday:

As the first goals of the Kyoto Protocol are about to expire, the United Nations is preparing a "Conference of the Parties," the highest decision-making authority. The meeting will take place in Bali, Indonesia from December 3 to December 5.

But the event lost any claim of impartiality when organizers rejected attempts by representatives of Environment & Climate News to receive press accreditation for the conference.

UN press office coordinator Carrie Assheuer said the newspaper's representatives "do not meet the criteria for press accreditation." Environment & Climate News has been in continual publication for 10 years; is sent to more than 75,000 elected officials, opinion leaders, and environmental professionals in the United States; and is one of five newspapers published the by 23-year-old Heartland Institute.

I guess only reporters that buy into the global warming myth are considered accredited.

Color my lack of surprise green.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/12/04/skeptics-denied-press-credentials-un-climate-meeting-bali”

“Hmmmmmm
A basic test for you boys. Having read and studdied the arguments on the libby concept of 'global warming', are the 'scientists' arguing that it is:

A) "An increase in average temperatures over the entire planet over a given time period - largely due to human influence?

B) That it will never be cold or snow again anywhere - ever?


What's it to be boys - I've limited the choices here so it's not too tricky for you to grasp.

There was an interesting editorial I read this morning which pointed out that Iran doesn't need nuclear weapoins. Beaucse of a complete lack of energy policy other than making the Exxon board very wealthy indeed, there's no sign of energy independence so we'll continue to have to bend over an take it from the world's oil producers. Can't act on Iran because the oil shock would take out the economy.”

“Wow Stove! That shows what lengths these guys will go to spread the lie.”

“Y2, I'm sure you can see the reason for the skepticism, can't you? It doesn't matter whether it's heat, cold, snow, rain, dryness, hurricanes, tornadoes, NO hurricanes, NO tornadoes---you name it. It's ALL caused by man-made global warming. And all without solid, concrete proof. If this were to ever land in a court of law it would never pass the reasonable doubt test. It's without a doubt the most convenient thing to ever come along.
Don't fall into the Tilt MO by labeling every skeptic as "anti-libbie" or "anti-environment" or stupid or whatever the dismissal du jour is.”

“As a global warming skeptic, feel free to label me as "anti-stupid".”

“I suppose you could read it that way, lol. I should have put a little more space in there beteen the anti label and the stupid label. :)”

“Y2, sure holds a grudge for a long time.
Make him look like the a$$ he is by calling him on his more stupid comments and he tends to get pissed off. LOL”

“NonC - I can see that, but if you listen to what is actually said by the scientists rather than the alarmists and the anti-liberal chorus - almost ALL of them, to a man, is careful to say that no single weather event of even a season of weather events can be directly explained by global warming.

Most of the serious work on the subject has included caveats for stuff that they just don't know - and the extremists like to pretend these caveats are huge issues, when really they just need more research.”

“And even if you are a skeptic, which is fair enough, resolving this problem is a win win on all fronts. Cheap renewable energy will give America a huge advantage over its competitors while energy independence will be another win in terms of national and international security and stability.

It seems strange to me that we're ok to spend thousands per family to invade iraq in the hopes of providing stability in the key oil-producing part of the world, but not prepared to spend a far smaller part ensuring that the Middle East will no longer hold the key to America's future.”

“But anytime you try to bring in government regulation it IS a huge issue. And to have those fuuckups regulate anything, especially something with a whole lot of ifs and maybes and "stuff that they just don't know" behind it, means a lot of $$$$ to you and me. They waste enough it already.


And I am for cheap renewable energy, anything to stomp our foreign dependencies, but we should separate the two issues.
last edited: 12/06/07 8:18:15 AM”

“noncon - no, I added that - didn't think you were saying that.

y2 - almost ALL of them, to a man, is careful to say that no single weather event of even a season of weather events can be directly explained by global warming.

And neither can the grouped weather events.

And even if you are a skeptic, which is fair enough, resolving this problem is a win win on all fronts.

No it's not. It costs money. Money that goes to people who don't deserve it - money from people that do. That's not a win-win. That's called "theft".”

“In comparing energy costs people frequently forget to include the decades-long military presence in the Middle East.

How does wind, solar and biomass look then?”

“When the driver pays the full price for all the cost involved in a gallon of Gasoline and the flyer pays all the cost of the airlines , then we will have way fewer concerns about which this thread speaks.”

“Non-C, but you don't even have to do it by further 'regulation'. You can do much without using a stick. I thnk the carrot approach will work better. Allow energy companies tax breaks, if they get emissions down, introduce initiatives like putting a smart meter in every home, pour money into research. Make energy independence the new Manhatten project.

Instead we've ended up with 8 wasted years with nothing but words and platitudes and no leadership.”

“You know I think when Dick sat down with the energy companies they decided that controlling the world's oil supply was key to America's strategic interest. If the military was going to be one arm of this policy, then they also needed oil firms awash with cash to power things on the business side.

It seems to me like there was a decision made that strong oil companies were a method for persusing western interests as there was little hope of direct governmental influence in the regions where the oil wells sit.”

“Oil Companies need all of that moneys to buy off the science and evironmentalist?”

“I mean seriously, America makes a strategic breakthrough in energy and starts dropping oil use then the price of oil will plummet. Suddenly Chevez's income is cut in half, he can't do all these 'free' projects he offers, can't threaten to cut of the oil, and he gets voted out as economic chaos results.
We were very lucky that Russia wasn't exploiting its reserves by the end of the cold war as communism wouldn't have collapsed with all those oil dollars pouring in.

And the thing is NC, you can't divide these issues out. They are all tied into Energy. Foreign policy, stratecic, economic and environmental concerns are all centering on Energy at the moment as for the time being it is the key resource.
last edited: 12/06/07 8:52:44 AM”

“Still in that loooooooong pause from November 30th post.”

“Ya see Y2, you had me with you until you started on the conspiracy theories and these other comments:

pour money into research

Instead we've ended up with 8 wasted years with nothing but words and platitudes and no leadership


I'm no huge GWB fan, but leadership on this issue can come from a million areas, and there have been a lot more than 8 "wasted years" with no solutions.”

“First, get rid of the subsidies that have addicted the people to CHEAP.”

“Putin's Chapter 13 reorganization appears to be on schedule.”

“Well it is just a personal therory, but certainly the administration took steps to make life easier for oil companies that were already making serious money - not too sure why they felt that was necessary - perhaps you can offer an opinion on this? Maybe they were over-regulated to being with?

Like I said, I think this should be the next Manhatten project as it helps on so many fronts, so I can't see why helping to fund the right research would be a problem, certainly far less of a problem than all the public money that has gone to private companies to profit from the Iraq war.

And 8 wasted years. Sure more could have beeen done before, but Bush's election did result on a change of thinking on the environment as a whole. You may agree or disagree with the policy changes but I can't see how you can say that this wasn't a key point in time.”

“This point in time is key in demonstrating the lies, hypocrisy, and desparation of the loonie left. That much I do agree on.”

“Instead we've ended up with 8 wasted years with nothing but words and platitudes and no leadership - y2

Obviously, the left is in need of leadership ... since they have no initiative.”

“With the installation of the Bush Administration, it appears that we went from   "Knowledge is Power"   to   "No News Is Good News"”

“Wow. What from the Klinton admin made you think that he thought "knowledge is power"? Obviously not in the intelligence area. Maybe on "101 Ways to Forceably Seduce a Woman".”

“What about when Clinton?? If you were the weather we'd all be rite all the time.”

“Re-hasher.........

Golly, imagine if Kleenton had started a war in which thousands of Americans were killed and mangled!?!?”

“re-hasher? Tilt brought up the past administrations.”

“loonie left
loonie left
Clinton
Tilts fault”

“you forgot silly libbie”

“That's a Sargical post list. Appears vacant without the silly libbie, AH?”

“Funny how you totally skipped over the same pattern from MarkO. idiot”

“I mean lets look at this.

You have a country that's 'addicted to oil' or at least toally reliant on it for everything, from the nation feeding itself, through to the entire rest of the economy.

Now, you only have a small puddle of this resource in your lands.

What do you do to solve this problem:

a) Invade another country (tried many times in the past to gain access to limited resources, not worked for a long long time)

b) Do all you can to find a practical technological solution to the problem that will reduce, ideally to the point of virtual elimiantion of the need for the resource.

c) Give tax breaks to the producers of this raw material, perhaps in the hope of keeping the prices down and maintaining and even heightening the 'addiction to oil'.

You can choose more than one answer.”

“d) Close your eyes, click your heels three times and say, "there's no place like home"”

“I mean lets look at this.

You have a country that's 'addicted to oil' or at least toally reliant on it for everything, from the nation feeding itself, through to the entire rest of the economy.

Right out of the gate you are full of it. What you FAIL to understand is that the U.S. doesn't just support itself.

Now, you only have a small puddle of this resource in your lands.

Wrong again, no matter how irrelevant.

What do you do to solve this problem:

Wrong again. There is no problem. Only in your mind is there a problem. The market works. We are not going to be up the creek if we ran out of oil in 150 years.”

“MarkO ... MarkO ... MarkO ...”

“Oh god, back to basics here.

Right out of the gate you are full of it. What you FAIL to understand is that the U.S. doesn't just support itself.

Oil is at the center of alomst everything in the consumer Ameircan economy. A rise in oil prices feeds through to the price of almost everything you buy and do. It's a huge inflationary pressure that for some reason isn't counted in offical inflation measures.

Now, you only have a small puddle of this resource in your lands.

There's a tiny puddle at an economoically recoverable price level compared with the nation's demand for the product.
Wrong again, no matter how irrelevant.

What do you do to solve this problem:

Wrong again. There is no problem. Only in your mind is there a problem. The market works. We are not going to be up the creek if we ran out of oil in 150 years.”

So you don't see a problem in the fact that the main perveyors of oil include Russia, Venezuella, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Iran. Not exactly friendly nations.

Also as the prices increase we pour billions upon billions of dollars into the coffers of potential long-term foes. The Russian navy started operations in the Med this week.


If you can't see that Energy, and in particualar at the moment, OIL, is THE KEY RESOURCE of the 21st century and a key to virtually everything then there really is no explaining things to you.


The market works.

Ok, the holders of the world's oil resources, excluding Canada.
Nigeria, Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE.

America's largest future competitor: China

How many of these countries do you think would or would not use their energy resources as a political tool. How many do you think will always give prioity to the market at all times?
last edited: 12/06/07 12:37:14 PM”

“Oil is at the center of alomst everything in the consumer Ameircan economy. A rise in oil prices feeds through to the price of almost everything you buy and do. It's a huge inflationary pressure that for some reason isn't counted in offical inflation measures.

And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that the U.S. doesn't just support itself.

So you don't see a problem in the fact that the main perveyors of oil include Russia, Venezuella, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Iran. Not exactly friendly nations.

I don't care who the main perveyors are - if they come from Space Invaders or Giant Space Robots. There is no problem, something you again didn't address. What's the problem? Are you afraid we'll run out of oil?”

“If you can't see that ...

y2 - I'd say that 90% that comes out of your keyboard is total fantasy, and when you act like everyone else is an idiot for not seeing it that way, you look like a little kid - which is pretty much all the time. Did somebody along the way tell you you are brilliant besides your mom? I seriously doubt it, so don't go around thinking you have a grasp on things. You clearly don't.

Oil is not the key resource on this planet. Humanity is.”

“What does Marko have to do with your post.
You can't even defend your own silly post without blaming someone else. What about when Clinton , Tilt and Marko?”

“And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that the U.S. doesn't just support itself - what are you saying here - that American consumption provides prosperity to these people so they don't want to rock the boat?

The problem is that Russia has already begun using natural gas as a political tool on neighboring countries, and will also do so with oil if it needs to.

The problem is that Iraq is yet to produce sigificant amounts of oil

The problem is that we can't act against Iran because of the oil shock that will result.

the problem is that the Middle Eastern Countries are dictatorships that could fall to revolutions at any given time.

The problem is that Venezuela is run by guy who wants to be a dictator.

The problem is Nigeria is a corrupt country and there are civil problems in the country which can effect prodcution.
last edited: 12/06/07 12:47:04 PM”

“so here we are again Sarge - you nothing to say so you revert to the personal attacks - well done big man.


Oil is not the key resource on this planet. Humanity is.”
Sarge
12:37:53 PM
12/06/07

And what are you, some sort of fecking hippy.

And come on, you're just pissed cos I called you out for exactly what you are earlier in the thread.

No substance, no backing for your views, just a hatred of 'liberals'.
last edited: 12/06/07 12:48:14 PM”

“what are you saying here - that American consumption provides prosperity to these people so they don't want to rock the boat?

Dude, I don't think I've ever read anything of yours and though "Eureka! He's got it!"

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that OUR production is THEIR production. The world would suffer right along with us, assuming we would suffer.

And, all of your "problems" are dependent on your narrow view that oil is the center of our world. It isn't. Not in the sense that we can't live without it. We will innovate past it. It's not a "problem".”

“Nothing to say? I'm spelling everything out for you and you don't get any of it.”

“Sarge- I get all of it, you're just naive to the importance of oil in the short-term.

You also seem to be naive to the potential disruptions to oil supplies and the effects this would have on America and it's economy.

You have the classic failing of neocon therories in the past few years. You think the rest of the world thinks like you're average right-wing American. They don't.

They like making money, but 'the market' is somewhere down their list of priorities, particularly their national interest.

Most of the countries holding oil are dictatorships or virtual dictatorships, who won't hesitate to use the resource to put pressure on America should it ever be in their interest to do so. It may hurt them in the short term, but in case you haven't noticed there's already a realignment going on in the world.
last edited: 12/06/07 12:58:48 PM”

“Y2, Sarge is a supply sider and thinks growth is God. Toss all reason and logic to the wind to save that ever needed growth at the expense of anyone that gets in the way.

Sarge really never thinks anyone else has a clue, because he's to busy trying to step on every ones feet all at the same time.”

“y2 - I'd say that 90% that comes out of your keyboard is total fantasy, and when you act like everyone else is an idiot for not seeing it that way, you look like a little kid - which is pretty much all the time. Did somebody along the way tell you you are brilliant besides your mom? I seriously doubt it, so don't go around thinking you have a grasp on things. You clearly don't.

Sarge
12:37:53 PM
12/06/07

Oh well, I guess the people who pay me to cover the Energy business and the people on Wall Street who pay my employer for what results must be wrong then.... but don't tell me my mum was wrong.”