Global Warming

“I get all of it, you're just naive to the importance of oil in the short-term.

See. Right there. You did it again. Listen slowly. WE HAVE OIL IN THE SHORT TERM. We're not losing it in the short term. In the long term, we'll adopt. There is NO "problem".

Salebored, Y2, Did you guys ever stop and think that you tell others what they are thinking a lot more than asking them what they are thinking? That's why you're idiots, and often wrong. You are unwilling to learn. You are inherently born with the knowledge of what others are thinking, are you? I can assure you you have no clue what I'm thinking just based on your ridiculous attempts to tell me what I'm thinking. A bunch of fools you are.

Oh well, I guess the people who pay me to cover the Energy business and the people on Wall Street who pay my employer for what results must be wrong then.... but don't tell me my mum was wrong.

A lot of people cover a lot of things, and about half of them are wrong. You're on the "wrong" half.”

“Sarge - Well that's because you seem incapable of expressing those views in any coherent manner beyond telling us what a bad thing liberalism is.

Also you take no account of the events in the world - it's also not an all-or-nothing thing. Exceptionally high oil can strange the US economy just as surely as turning off the sprigot.

Your view takes no account of potential future events. I'm just suggesting its wise for America to act to cover its ass somewhat or leave itself vulnerable to future problems. If you insist there will never, in say the next 20-years, be a substantial and serious threat to America's oil imports, then you are naive in the extreme.
It's ok for America to up military spending as a safegaurd against future events, but it's wrong to spend money to guard against oil being used as a political tool against America - I just don't get that.

Sale - I agree with him to a point in that in the bigger picture the market can solve many problems. I guess we'd just disagree on the amount of prompting needed to protect nations from significant market shocks caused by world events.
last edited: 12/06/07 2:12:17 PM”

“Your view this

Your view that

Once again, you don't know my view. Instead of posting on trailtalk MY view, why don't you post yours, and I'll post mine? That's a novel idea! Not only that, but you know even LESS about what I "take into account". Do you disagree with that? Do you read minds? You're clueless up and down the spectrum. You're probably THE top name-caller on this forum, but you have the LEAST to offer of anything intelligent. There are others who offer less without the name-calling, but you don't deserve to tell me or others what they think BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW. (caps for extra skull penetration power)”

“WTF are you talking about. I'm responding to your posts. If your posts don't reflect your views then maybe you should take up a different hobby than posting here.

Sarge's rules of debate - number 3:

When losing an argument and with nothing constuctive to say start bickering about details. This makes me look smart and provides a distraction so no one will be able to see there are no substance to my views.

Sarge Rule Number 4.

Accuse everybody of making things personal and of being called a name. As above this may provide a distraction so no one will notice there is little to nothing beyond a hatred of all things 'liberal' in my opinions.

Sarge Rule 4b
While making this claim make a personal attack. this will only add to the confusion and prove once and for all that I'm smarter than everyone else.
last edited: 12/06/07 2:58:56 PM”

“See tell me if I'm wrong but all of substance you've posted here consists of:

the market works

they need us as much as we need them

we have oil and this won't change

by the time the oil runs out we'll have innovated change

This is it right, or did I miss something?”

“Sarge can be saying the exact same thing as someone else , but still sets a tone of disagreement. He probably has the 50% rite 50% wrong mix that he talks about others having , but he egoes the wrong 50% off on someone else.

What about when Clinton?”

“When people who claim to care about man-made global warming start backing the number one way to reduce carbon emissions - NUCLEAR ENERGY - and stop pushing the Kyoto agreement and carbon credits as a way to solve it by shipping US jobs to third world countries, then I will start opening my mind to their arguments. Until then they are just a bunch of people who hate oil companies and big corporations.”

“One can hate oil cos and big corps for alot more reasons than GW. New nukes are as far away as drilling Anwr. deep water gulf or any other big energy move. So, what about now? Do we just stand around or should we start by conserving (you know like in conservative), get rid of the subsidies that encourage travel and all the other big energy spenders. Nah, we're americans and are just that wonderful we don't need no stinkin' conservation , hell, we're the only lonely superpower and we're just way smarter than everyone else ,infact , we've got GW on our slide.”

“bla bla bla, Bush/America is satan and the sole cause of all the worlds problems? I am for getting rid of the entire tax system and slashing big government, but somehow I don't think that will provide what you think it will as it relates to carbon emissions. It galls me that someone who cries freedom wants yo control the travel habits of others.”

“WTF are you talking about. I'm responding to your posts. If your posts don't reflect your views then maybe you should take up a different hobby than posting here.

My posts ARE my views. You just fill in the gaps with your INCORRECT assumptions. YOUR posts are NOT my views. Once again, you should have ZERO reasons for telling me or anyone else what MY views are. You are consistently wrong in your assumptions of what they are, and you have no business guessing what they are to begin with in the middle of a debate. Your focus should be what YOUR views are. This is a simple concept, but apparently not simple enough for you.

Tell me why you would have reason to post my views on here. When you can't think of a good one, and realize that debate consists of each side giving THEIR point of view, maybe we can continue. Otherwise, you are by far the biggest perpetrator of the straw-man logical fallacy I've seen on trailtalk.

Is your argument so weak, that you have to put up an phoney argument from me, and debate that?
last edited: 12/07/07 5:32:36 AM”

“I'm responding and dealing directly with what you've said.

Is this little tantrum coming because you can't deal with specific facts and issues of the subject or because someone has dared to question your views?

Sarge's rules of debate - number 3:

When losing an argument and with nothing constuctive to say start bickering about details. This makes me look smart and provides a distraction so no one will be able to see there is no substance to my views.
last edited: 12/07/07 5:43:06 AM”

“... and in your response ... you again tell everyone what you think I think as opposed to what you think ... You don't see the error in that? And once again don't acknowledge the fallacy in that.

bye bye - I'm done with you. You're not worth the time.”

“Hyway, the tax code pays business to travel. The system of airlines is subsidized to the hilt- look at the home land insecurity dollars that the general taxpayer supports so these people can get by withouy paying the gross amounts airlines really cost. And worse, is the industry that has formed at the airport destinations . All the hotels , shops, restaurants, drugs, hookers and all the other expences to be written against income.

If you want to act like a libertarian you better first understand what their purpose is.
You're accusing me of changing peoples' travel habits by getting rid of a government giveaway program- Wake up, look at what the tax code , foreign aid, foreign stationed troops and all the other obscure influences our gov has over others.”

“I am not a libertarian, I think the States should run our lives not the federal government. We will still have to pay for the things we want, but you will be paying locally and your political crooks will be local ones.

BTW, how much did you pay for the highway you drive on, the internet you post on, the school you send your kids to? Everything we do as individuals costs more than what we pay for it as individuals. Some people who travel extensively don't have kids in public education. If you take away the tax support for airlines, then take it away for schools and roads too.”

“Ron Paul and what you discribe is libertarian. Why do you think the other republicans hate Paul?”

“It's like dealing with a five-year-old.”

“So if a democrat votes for a republican then that makes that person a republican? Your logic is flawed.

National Platform of the Libertarian Party

Adopted in Convention, July 2, 2006, Portland Oregon

Preamble

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.

So what part of being ruled by the Constitution as it should be interpreted concerning States rights makes me a libertarian when libertarians believe they should not be ruled by any government?

And once again, along with that the reason I am not a libertarian is that because the party is chock full of black helicopter fearing, militia loving idiots that would eventually end up trying to be fuedal lords if they ever succeeded in getting rid of all authority.
last edited: 12/07/07 8:03:50 AM”

“Y2 believes that hairspray has caused the earth's temperature to spiral out of control and we are all going to die because of hairspray! LMAO! Can you believe that!

He (y2) also believes that if we pay the government enough money, that is the ONE way we can solve all of our problems, including global warming! LOL! Sucker!

y2 also believes that America should bare the burdon of ALL countries and clean up their environments, as well as it's own.”

“Kookie,kookie lend me your comb - you're the ginchyest!”

“I love it how the “experts” predicted that the last 2 hurricane sessions would be the “worst in recorded history” due to “global warming” and they where some of the mildest. Some also say that a colder or warmer winter is due to global warming. They forget to look back in history and see that the earths temperature, climate, glaciers, and seasons changed multiple times for no good reason. Hell, the mountains are a result of those changes.
On a second note, I do like the idea using less fossil fuels, because it’s cheaper.
BTW, I don’t like Bush but he is still 10x better then Kerry.”

“Not that it smells better-it's cheaper. I thought I would never be defending a democrat , but in this case, well , it's a toss up between those two bone heads (Kerry-Cheney that is).”

“And the Patron Religon of the Socialists...(the LEFT marky Mark) takes another HIT in the Gnip Gnops.....

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/global_warming/2007/12/10/55974.html

New Study Explodes Human-Global Warming Story

Monday, December 10, 2007 9:55 AM

By: Philip V. Brennan Article Font Size




As much of the U.S. is being blasted by vicious ice storms, a blockbuster report published in a prestigious scientific journal insists that the evidence shows that climate warming is both natural and unstoppable and that carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant.


Writing in the International Journal of Climatology of the Royal Meteorological Society, professor David H. Douglass (of the University of Rochester), professor John R. Christy (of the University of Alabama), Benjamin D. Pearson and professor S. Fred Singer (of the University of Virginia) report that observed patterns of temperature changes ("fingerprints") over the last 30 years disagree with what greenhouse models predict and can better be explained by natural factors, such as solar variability.


The conclusion is that climate change is "unstoppable" and cannot be affected or modified by controlling the emission of greenhouse gases, such as CO2, as is proposed in current legislation. ”

“Skeptical Scientists:

A. Alan Moghissi, Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, Technical University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Aksel Wiin-Nielsen, Professor of Geophysical Science, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
Alfred H. Pekarek, Ph.D. Geology, Associate Professor of Geology, St. Cloud State University, USA
Allan M.R. MacRae, B.Sc., M.Eng., P.Eng, Canada
Andreas Prokoph, B.Sc. Geology, Ph.D. Earth Sciences, University Tubingen, Germany
Anthony R. Lupo, Ph.D. Atmospheric Science, Purdue University, USA
Antonino Zichichi, Professor Emeritus of Advanced Physics, University of Bologna, Italy
Arthur B. Robinson, Ph.D. Chemistry, University of California, San Diego, USA
Arthur Rorsch, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Molecular Genetics, Leiden University, The Netherlands
Ben Herman, Ph.D. Atmospheric Sciences, University of Arizona, USA
Bob Durrenberger, Retired Climatologist, Former President of the American Association of State Climatologists, USA
Boris Winterhalter, Ph.D. Geology, Helsinki University, Finland
Bruce N. Ames, Ph.D. BioChemistry, California Institute of Technology, USA
Bruno Wiskel, B.Sc. Honours Geology, University of Albert, Canada
Carl Johan Friedrich (Frits) Böttcher, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Physical Chemistry, University of Leiden, The Netherlands
Charles Gelman, B.S. Chemistry, M.S. Public Health, University of Michigan, USA
Chauncey Starr, Ph.D. Physics, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, USA
Chris de Freitas, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Geography and Environmental Science, University of Auckland, New Zealand
Christiaan Frans van Sumere, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Biochemistry, University of Gent, Belgium
Christopher Essex, Ph.D. Applied Mathematics Professor, University of Western Ontario, Canada
Christopher Landsea, Ph.D. Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University, USA
Claude Allegre, Ph.D. Physics, University of Paris, France
Clinton H. Sheehan, Ph.D. Physics, University of Western Ontario, Canada
Craig D. Idso, M.S. Agronomy, Ph.D. Geography, Arizona State University, USA
Daniel B. Botkin, Ph.D. Biology, Rutgers University, USA
David Deming, B.S. Geology, Ph.D. Geophysics, University of Utah, USA
David E. Wojick, B.S. Civil Engineering, Ph.D. Mathematical Logic, University of Pittsburgh, USA
David Evans, B.Sc. Applied Mathematics and Physics, M.S. Statistics, Ph.D. Electrical Engineering, Stanford, USA
David G. Aubrey, B.S. Geological Sciences, Ph.D. Oceanography, University of California at San Diego, USA
David H. Douglass, Ph.D. Physics, MIT, USA
David J. Bellamy, B.Sc. Botany, Ph.D. Ecology, Durham University, UK
David L. Hill, Ph.D. Physics, Princeton, USA
David Nowell, M.Sc. Meteorology, Royal Meteorological Society, Canada
David R. Legates, Ph.D. Climatology, University of Delaware, USA
Dennis P. Lettenmaier, Ph.D. Professor of Hydrology, University of Washington, USA
Don J. Easterbrook, Ph.D. Geology, University of Washington, USA
Donald G. Baker, Ph.D. Soils, Geology, University of Minnesota, USA
Douglas V. Hoyt, Solar Physicist and Climatologist, Retired, Raytheon, USA
Duncan Wingham, Ph.D. Physics, University of Bath, UK
Eckhard Grimmel, Ph.D. Geography, University of Hamburg, Germany
Edward Wegman, Ph.D. Mathematical Statistics, University of Iowa, USA
Eigil Friis-Christensen, Ph.D. Geophysics, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
Elliot Abrams, M.S. Meteorology, Penn State, USA
Eric S. Posmentier, Adjunct Professor of Earth Sciences, Dartmouth, USA
Fred Michel, B.Sc. Geological Sciences, M.Sc. Earth Sciences, Ph.D. Earth Sciences, University of Waterloo, Canada
Fred Goldberg, Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering, Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
Fred W. Decker, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, Oregon State University, USA
Frederick Seitz, Ph.D. Physics, Princeton University, USA
Freeman Dyson, Professor Emeritus, Physics, Princeton, USA
G. Cornelis van Kooten, B.Sc. Geophysics, Ph.D. Agricultural & Resource Economics, Oregon State University, USA
Gabriel T. Csanady, Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering, University of New South Wales, Australia
Garth Paltridge, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus, Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies, University of Tasmania, Australia
Gary D. Sharp, Ph.D. Marine Biology, University of California, USA
Gary Novak, M.S. Microbiology, USA
George E. McVehil, B.A. Physics, M.S. Ph.D. Meteorology, AMS Certified Consulting Meteorologist, USA
George H. Taylor, M.S. Meteorology, University of Utah, USA
George Kukla, Micropalentologist, Special Research Scientist of Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University, USA
George V. Chilingarian, Ph.D. Geology, University of Southern California, USA
George Wilhelm Stroke, Ph.D. Physics, University of Paris, France
Gerd-Rainer Weber, Ph.D. Consulting Meteorologist, Germany
Gerhard Gerlich, Ph.D. Physics, Technical University of Braunschweig, Germany
Gerrit J. van der Lingen, PhD Geology, New Zealand
Gordon E. Swaters, Ph.D. Applied Mathematics and Physical Oceanography, University of British Columbia, Canada
Graham Smith, Associate Professor of Geography, University of Western Ontario, Canada
H. Grant (H.G.) Goodell, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia, USA
Hans Erren, B.Sc. Geology and Physics, M.Sc. Geophysics, Utrecht University, The Netherlands
Hans Jelbring, Ph.D. Climatology, Stockholm University, Sweden
Harry N.A. Priem, Professor Emeritus of Isotope and Planetary Geology, Utrecht University, The Netherlands
Hendrik Tennekes, Former Director of Research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, The Netherlands
Henrik Svensmark, Solar System Physics, Danish National Space Center, Denmark
Henry R. Linden, Ph.D. Chemical Engineering, Illinois Institute of Technology, USA
Howard C. Hayden, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Physics, University of Connecticut, USA
Hugh W. Ellsaesser, Ph.D. Meteorology, Formerly with Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, USA
Ian D. Clark, Professor Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa, Canada
Ian Plimer, Professor of Mining Geology, University of Adelaide, Australia
Indur M. Goklany, Ph.D. Electrical Engineering, Indian Institute of Technology, India
J. Scott Armstrong, B.A. Applied Science, B.S. Industrial Engineering, Ph.D. MIT, USA
Jack Barrett, Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, Manchester, UK
James O’Brien, Ph.D. Meteorology, Texas A&M University, USA
Ján Veizer, Professor Emeritus, Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa, Canada
Jay H. Lehr, Ph.D. Groundwater Hydrology, University of Arizona, USA
Jennifer Marohasy, Ph.D. Biology, University of Queensland, Australia
Joseph (Joe) P. Sobel, Ph.D. Meteorology, Penn State, USA
Joel Schwartz, B.S. Chemistry, M.S. Planetary Science, California Institute of Technology, USA
John Brignell, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus, Department of Electronics & Computer Science, University of Southampton, UK
John E. Gaynor, M.S. Meteorology, UCLA, USA
John K. Sutherland, Ph.D. Geology, USA
John R. Christy, Ph.D. Atmospheric Sciences, University of Illinois, USA
Joseph Conklin, M.S. Meteorology, Rutgers University, USA
Joseph D’Aleo, M.S. Meteorology, University of Wisconsin, USA
Keith D. Hage, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Meteorology, University of Alberta, Canada
Keith E. Idso, Ph.D. Botany, Arizona State University, USA
Kelvin Kemm, Ph.D. Nuclear Physics, Natal University, South Africa
Kenneth E.F. Watt, Ph.D. Zoology, University of Chicago, USA
Khabibullo Abdussamatov, Ph.D. Astrophysicist, The University of Leningrad, Russia
Klaus Wyrtki, Ph.D. Oceanography, Physics, Mathematics, University of Kiel, Germany
Lee C. Gerhard, Ph.D. Geology, University of Kansas, USA
Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physics, Rutgers, USA
Madhav Khandekar, Ph.D. Meteorology, Florida State University, USA
Manik Talwani, Ph.D. Physics, Columbia University, USA
Marcel Leroux, Professor Emeritus of Climatology, University of Lyon, France
Mel Goldstein, Ph.D. Meteorology, NYU, USA
Michael Crichton, A.B. Anthropology, M.D. Harvard, USA
Michael D. Griffin, B.S. Physics, M.S. Applied Physics, Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering, University of Maryland, USA
Michael Savage, B.S. Biology, M.S. Anthropology, M.S. Ethnobotany, Ph.D. Nutritional Ethnomedicine, USA
Michael R. Fox, Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, University of Washington, USA
Michel Salomon, M.D. University of Paris, Director, International Centre for Scientific Ecology, France
Neil Frank, Ph.D. Meteorology, Florida State University, USA
Nils-Axel Mörner, Professor Emeritus of Palegeophysics and Geodynamics, Stockholm University, Sweden
Nir J. Shaviv, Ph.D. Astrophysicist, Israel Institute of Technology, Israel
Norman Brown, Professor Emeritus of Chemistry, University of Ulster, UK
Ola M. Johannessen, Professor, Nansen Environmental and Remote Sensing Center, Norway
Olavi Kärner, Ph.D. Senior Research Associate, Atmospheric Sensing Group, Tartu Astrophysical Observatory, Estonia
Oliver W. Frauenfeld, Ph.D. Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia, USA
Paavo Siitam, M.Sc. Agronomist, Canada
Paul Copper, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University, Canada
Paul Driessen, B.A. Geology and Field Ecology, Lawrence University, USA
Paul Reiter, Professor of Medical Entomology, Pasteur Institute, France
Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D. Ecological Climatology, University of Wisconsin-Madison, USA
Patrick Moore, B.Sc. Forest Biology, Ph.D. Ecology, University of British Columbia, Canada
Peter Stilbs, Ph.D. (TeknD) Physical Chemistry, Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Petr Chylek, Ph.D. Physics, University of California, USA
Philip Stott, Professor Emeritus, Department of Biogeography, University of London, UK
Piers Corbyn, B.Sc Physics, M.Sc Astrophysics, Queen Mary College, UK
R. Timothy (Tim) Patterson, Ph.D. Professor of Geology, Carleton University, Canada
Randall Cerveny, Ph.D. Geography, University of Nebraska, USA
Reid A. Bryson, B.A. Geology, Ph.D. Meteorology, University of Chicago, USA
Richard C. Willson, Ph.D. Atmospheric Sciences, University of California Los Angeles, USA
Richard S. Courtney, Ph.D. Geography, The Ohio State University, USA
Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT, USA
Roger A. Pielke (Sr.), Ph.D. Meteorology, Penn State, USA
Rob Scagel, M.Sc., Forest Microclimate Specialist, Canada
Robin Vaughan, Ph.D. Physics, Nottingham University, UK
Robert C. Balling Jr., Ph.D. Professor of Climatology, Arizona State University, USA
Robert C. Whitten, Physicist, Retired Research Scientist, NASA, USA
Robert E. Davis, Ph.D. Climatology, University of Delaware, USA
Robert Giegengack, Ph.D. Geology, Yale, USA
Robert H. Essenhigh, M.S. Natural Sciences, Ph.D. Chemical Engineering, University of Sheffield, UK
Robert L. Kovach, Professor of Geophysics, Stanford University, USA
Robert (Bob) M. Carter, B.Sc. Geology, Ph.D. Paleontology, University of Cambridge, Australia
Roy Spencer, Ph.D. Meteorology, University of Wisconsin, USA
S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Physics, Princeton University, USA
Sallie Baliunas, Ph.D. Astrophysics, Harvard, USA
Sherwood B. Idso, Ph.D. Soil Science, University of Minnesota, USA
Simon C. Brassell, B.Sc. Chemistry & Geology, Ph.D. Organic Geochemistry, University of Bristol, UK
Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen, Ph.D. Department of Geography, University of Hull, UK
Steve Milloy, B.A. Natural Sciences, M.S. Health Sciences, Johns Hopkins University, USA
Stephen McIntyre, B.Sc. Mathematics, University of Toronto, Canada
Sylvan H. Wittwer, Ph.D. Horticulture, University of Missouri, USA
Syun-Ichi Akasofu, Ph.D. Geophysics, University of Alaska, USA
Tad S. Murty, Ph.D. Oceanography and Meteorology, University of Chicago, USA
Thomas Schmidlin, Ph.D. Professor of Geography, Kent State University, USA
Timothy (Tim) F. Ball, Ph.D. Geography, Historical Climatology, University of London, UK
Tom Harris, B. Eng. M. Eng. Mechanical Engineering (thermo-fluids), Canada
Tom V. Segalstad, B.S. Geology, University of Oslo, Norway
Vern Harnapp, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Geography, University of Akron, USA
Vincent Gray, Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, Cambridge University, UK
W. Dennis Clark, Ph.D. Botany, Sacramento State College, USA
Wm. Robert Johnston, B.A. Astronomy, M.S. Physics, University of Texas, USA
Wibjorn Karlen, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden
William B. Hubbard, Ph.D. Professor of Planetary Atmospheres, University of Arizona, USA
William Cotton, M.S. Atmospheric Science, Ph.D. Meteorology, Pennsylvania State University, USA
William E. Reifsnyder, B.S. Meteorology, M.S. Ph.D. Forestry, Yale, USA
William J.R. Alexander, Professor Emeritus, Department of Civil and Biosystems Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa
William (Bill) M. Gray, M.S. Meteorology, Ph.D. Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago, USA
Willie Soon, Ph.D. Astrophysics, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, USA
Wolfgang Thüne, Ph.D. Geography, University of Wuerzburg, Germany
Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D. Ph.D. D.Sc., Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection, Poland

Meteorologists:

A.J. Colby, B.S. Atmospheric Sciences, AMS Certified, Meteorologist WKYC-TV, USA
Andre Bernier, B.S. Meteorology, Lyndon State College, Meteorologist WJW-TV, USA
Anthony Watts, AMS Certified, Chief Meteorologist KPAY-AM, USA
Arlo Gambell, AMS Certified, Meteorologist, USA
Art Horn, B.S. Meteorology, Lyndon State College, Meteorologist WVIT-TV, USA
Asmunn Moene, former Chief Meteorologist, Oslo, Norway
Austin W. Hogan, AMS Certified, Meteorologist, USA
Bill Meck, Chief Meteorologist WLEX-TV, USA
Bill Steffen, Meteorologist WOOD-TV, USA
Bob Breck, B.S. Meteorology & Oceanography, University of Michigan, Chief Meteorologist WVUE-TV, USA
Brad Sussman, Meteorologist, USA
Brian Sussman, Meteorologist, USA
Bruce Boe, Director of Meteorology Weather Modification Inc., USA
Bruce Schwoegler, B.S. Meteorology, University of Wisconsin-Madison, USA
Christopher Plonka, Meteorologist USAF, USA
Craig James, B.S. Meteorology, Penn State University, Chief Meteorologist WOOD-TV, USA
Dan Maly, Retired Meteorologist WOIO-TV, USA
David Aldrich, B.S. Meteorology, North Carolina State University, Meteorologist WTXF-TV, USA
Dick Goddard, Chief Meteorologist WJW-TV, USA
Don Webster, Retired Meteorologist WEWS-TV, USA
Douglas Leahey, Meteorologist, Canada
Eugenio Hackbart, Chief Meteorologist MetSul Meteorologia Weather Center, Brazil
Grant Dade, Meteorologist KLTV, USA
Herb Stevens, Meteorologist WNYT-TV, USA
James Spann, AMS Certified, Chief Meteorologist WCFT-TV, WJSU-TV, USA
Jason Russell, Meteorologist, WTEN-TV, USA
Joe Bastardi, B.S. Meteorology, Penn State, Expert Senior Forecaster AccuWeather, USA
John Coleman, Meteorologist, Founder of 'The Weather Channel', Chief Meteorologist KUSI-TV, USA
Jon Loufman, Meteorologist WOIO-TV, USA
Justin Berk, B.S. Meteorology, Cornell University, AMS Certified, Meteorologist WMAR-TV, USA
Karl Bohnak, B.S. Meteorology, University of Wisconsin, AMS Certified, Meteorologist WLUC-TV, USA
Kevin Lemanowicz, B.S. Meteorology, Cornell University, Chief Meteorologist WFXT-TV, USA
Kevin Williams, B.S. Meteorology, Cornell University, Chief Meteorologist WHEC-TV, USA
Lee Eddington, Meteorologist Geophysics Branch, U.S. Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, USA
Mark Koontz, Meteorologist WFMJ-TV, USA
Mark Breen, B.S. Meteorology, Lyndon State College, Senior Meteorologist Fairbanks Museum and Planetarium, USA
Mark Johnson, AMS Certified, Chief Meteorologist, WEWS-TV, USA
Mark Scirto, B.S. Meteorology, University of St. Thomas, AMS Certified, Chief Meteorologist KLTV, USA
Morgan Palmer, AMS Certified, Meteorologist KLTV, USA
Nick Morganelli, Free-Lance Meteorologist, USA
Randy Mann, AMS Certified, Meteorologist KREM-TV, USA
Richard (Rich) Apuzzo, Chief Meteorologist Skyeye Weather, USA
Roy Leep, B.S. Meteorology, Florida State University, Meteorologist WTVT-TV, USA
Sally Bernier, B.S. Meteorology, Lyndon State College, Meteorologist WJW-TV, USA
Shane Hollett, Meteorologist WMJI-FM, USA
Steven Nogueira, NWS Senior Meteorologist, USA
Terry Eliasen, B.S. Meteorology, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Meteorologist WBZ-TV, USA
Thomas B. Gray, M.S. Meteorology, USA
Tim Kelley, B.S. Meteorology, Lyndon State College, Meteorologist NECN, USA
Tom Chisholm, B.S. Atmospheric Sciences, Lyndon State College, Chief Meteorologist WMTW-TV, USA
William Kininmonth, M.Sc, Colorado State University, Retired Head of Australian Bureau of Meteorology, Australia

Social Scientists:

"The assessment of regional environmental and social impacts is a multidisciplinary task that involves natural and social scientists working in tandem with policy makers." - American Meteorological Society

Andrey Illarionov, Ph.D. Economics, St. Petersburg University, Russia
Benny Peiser, Ph.D. Professor of Social Anthropology, Liverpool John Moores University, UK
Bjørn Lomborg, Ph.D. Political Science, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
Daniel R. Simmons, B.A. Economics, Utah State University, USA
Dennis Avery, M.S. Agricultural Economics, The University of Wisconsin-Madison, USA
James Inhofe, B.A. Economics, University of Tulsa, USA
John J. Ray, Ph.D. Psychology, Macquarie University, Mensa, Sydney, Australia
Marlo Lewis, B.A. Political Science, Ph.D. Government, Claremont McKenna College, USA
Margo Thorning, Ph.D. Economics, University of Georgia, USA
Myron Ebell, M.Sc. Economics, London School of Economics, USA
Richard Tol, Ph.D. Economics, Vrije Universiteit, The Netherlands
Richard W. Rahn, Ph.D. Business Economics, Columbia University, USA
Robert Bradley, B.A. Economics, Ph.D. Political Economy, University of Houston, USA
Robert Higgs, Ph.D. Economics, Johns Hopkins University, USA
Roger A. Pielke (Jr.), Ph.D. Political Science, University of Colorado, USA
Ross McKitrick, Ph.D. Economics, University of British Columbia, Canada
Thomas A. Birkland, Ph.D. Political Science, University of Washington, USA
Thomas Gale Moore, Ph.D. Economics, University of Chicago, USA
Vaclav Klaus, app. Ph.D. Economics, University of Economics, Prague, Czechoslovakia
William Nordhaus, Ph.D. Economics, MIT, USA

Deceased:

"Some of this noise won't stop until some of these scientists are dead" - James Hansen, 2006

Adrian H. Gordon, Meteorologist, University of South Australia, Australia (Died: April 12, 2000)
August H. Auer Jr., Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Science, University of Wyoming, USA (Died: June 10, 2007)
Duwayne M. Anderson, Professor Emeritus of Geology, Texas A&M University, USA (Died: October 4, 2002)
George H. Sutton, Professor Emeritus of Geophysics, University of Hawaii, USA (Died: January 25, 2004)
Heinz Lettau, Professor Emeritus of Geophysics, University of Wisconsin, USA (Died: August 4, 2005)
Helmut Metzner, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Botany, University of Tubingen, Germany (Died: September 20, 1999)
James P. Lodge Jr., Ph.D. Consultant in Atmospheric Chemistry, USA (Died: December 14, 2001)
John R. Apel, Ph.D. Physics, Johns Hopkins University, USA (Died: August 16, 2001)
Larry H. Brace, B.S. Physics, University of Michigan, USA (Died: August 28, 2005)
Michael J. Higatsberger, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Experimental Physics, University of Vienna, Austria (Died: January 7, 2004)
Paul Handler, Professor Emeritus of Physics, University of Illinois, USA (Died: January 24, 1998)
Robert E. Stevenson, Ph.D. Oceanography, University of Southern California, USA (Died: August 12, 2001)
Roland (R.A.D.) Byron-Scott, Senior Lecturer Emeritus in Meteorology at Flinders University, Australia (Died: January, 2004)
Thomas Gold, Professor Emeritus of Astronomy, Cornell University, USA (Died: June 22, 2004)
Tor Ragnar Gerholm, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Physics, University of Stockholm, Sweden (Died: June 27, 2007)
William (Bill) A. Nierenberg, Ph.D. Physics, Columbia University, USA (Died: September 10, 2000)
William Mitchell, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Physics, University of Oxford, UK (Died: October 30, 2002)

Skeptical Scientific Organizations:

American Association of Petroleum Geologists, USA (31,000+ Members)
American Association of State Climatologists, USA
Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia

Skeptical Organizations:

AccuWeather, USA
Air Quality Standards Coalition, USA
American Council on Science and Health, USA
American Policy Center, USA
Australian APEC Study Centre, Australia
Arizona State University Office of Cimatology, USA
Cato Institute, USA
Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, USA
Center for Science and Public Policy, USA
Citizens for the Environment and CFE Action Fund, USA
Clean Water Industry Coalition, USA
Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, USA
Committee for Economic Development, USA
Competitive Enterprise Institute, USA
Cooler Heads Coalition, USA
DCI Group, USA
FAEC - Argentinean Foundation for a Scientific Ecology, Argentina
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, USA
Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment, USA
Fraser Institute, Canada
Friends of Science, Canada
Frontiers of Freedom Institute, USA
George C. Marshall Institute, USA
Global Climate Coalition, USA
Greening Earth Society, USA
Heartland Institute, USA
Heritage Foundation, USA
High Park Group, Canada
Hoover Institution, USA
Hudson Institute, USA
Independent Institute, USA
Institute for Canadian Values, Canada
Institute for Energy Research, USA
Institute of Economic Affairs, UK
Institute of Public Affairs, Australia
Interfaith Stewardship Alliance, USA
International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project, USA
International Policy Network, UK
Lavoisier Group, Australia
Maine Heritage Policy Center, USA
Media Research Center, USA
National Center for Policy Analysis, USA
Natural Resources Stewardship Project, Canada
New Hope Environmental Services, USA
New Zealand Climate Science Coalition, New Zealand
Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, USA
Pacific Research Institute, USA
Property and Environment Research Center, USA
Reason Foundation, USA
Science & Environmental Policy Project, USA
Science & Public Policy Institute, USA
Scientific Alliance, UK
Sustainable Development Network, UK
The Advancement of Sound Science Center, USA
The Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public Policy, USA
The Association of British Drivers, UK
The Environmental Conservation Organization, USA
Tropical Meteorology Project, USA
Weidenbaum Center on the Economy, Government, and Public Policy, USA”

“(tapping pen on keyboard in bored style)....is that ALL you have? (LOL)


I heard ALBERT took the TRAIN to the OSLO Slime Awards....(now here is the kicker) his luggage...Went in the Mercedes Limo...so he would have a car there.

LOL”

“The 'Dynamite Pieces Prize', sure brought the industrialist out of the cold lurks of the coal mines, Ah?”

“Yuuuuup-yup-yup-yup.....

And nicotine isn't addictive and that Tar stuf if good for ya.”

“Black lungs wouldn't be a problem had the designer have planned a head instead of two rite feet.”

“LOL..Sarge...you know you got em when their little brains freeze up and they resort to inane rambling statements in response.”

“Oh good, then I "got 'em" on several ongoing threads at once.”

“I'm not going to believe there are two sides because I don't want to and you can't make me.

Can I have some more Kool Aid, please?


Sincerely,

Tilt”

“Ohh, is that Sarge's Christmas card list

Heritage Foundation skeptical on Global Warming - it can't be happening then.”

“Well there's not really two sides - there's the vast majority of the world's climatologists - then there's a whole bunch of right wingers whose would be against anything that opens up even the remotest possibility of legislative action.

It's like they look at the people they see supporting action on climate change, they look at what these people are suggesting, decide they can't have anything to do with it, and so clutch at whatever straws they can to deny it's happening.

I guess the moment you agree that it caused by man, and is going to cause massive problems for humans, then you start having to say that something needs to be done - and that just can't happen - so just deny deny deny.
last edited: 12/11/07 8:31:06 AM”

“i love how sarge disses science on one thread (ID), but touts the scientists that agree with him on another thread

you really can have you cake and eat it too!”

“I'm not going to believe there are two sides because I don't want to and you can't make me.

Can I have some more Kool Aid, please?


Sincerely,

Tilt and Y2”

“mmmmm....cake.”

“i love how sarge disses science on one thread (ID), but touts the scientists that agree with him on another thread

My reason for posting the scientists is not to prove my point about global warming - it is to prove that those of you that say it's a "consensus" among scientists are wrong.

But, instead of taking the time to think about what is being said, you missed that and took the opportunity to make an empty personal remark instead. That has become your MO.”

“Well NC - there are of course two sides - there seems to be you, Sarge, and that list Sarge found earlier, against the rest of humanity :o)

It's an amazing show of weakness of your argument when you're able to provide such a short list of skeptics and think that somehow supports your cause.
last edited: 12/11/07 8:35:32 AM”

“ it is to prove that those of you that say it's a "consensus" among scientists are wrong.

wouldnt it have been easier to say that scientists are evil godless atheist puppets of satan?”

“lawsy mercy --- not the Heritage Foundation!  

A heritage of what is the pertinent question.”

“wouldnt it have been easier to say that scientists are evil godless atheist puppets of satan? - crash

"LOL..Sarge...you know you got em when their little brains freeze up and they resort to inane rambling statements in response.” - XL”

“It's an amazing show of weakness of your argument when you're able to provide such a short list of skeptics and think that somehow supports your cause.
last edited: 12/11/07 10:35:32 AM”
Y2
10:34:53 AM
12/11/07


No more amazing than it is to site consensus, possibilities, gray areas, theories, etc to support a BELIEF while dismissing ANY contradictory concensus, possibilities, gray areas or theories as right-wing or whatever the dismissal of the day is. (I suppose a my-list-of-scientists-is-bigger-than-your-list-of-scientists fits as well.)”

“Y2 I gotta ask...do you happen to have a LIST (LOL) of these THE WHOLE WORLD group? WHAAAAA? I mean you keep quoting this VAST group of Scientists....all I see are vague references.....”

“And now...the secret Libbie method of Science
”

“The Actual Method is the creator. Have you prayed to and paid your AMC today?”

“LOOKY Sarge..another example of my theory about libbie overload.....”

“http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/feb/02/frontpagenews.climatechange

How Exxon is offering a $10k bountry to any scientists who poke any holes in the IPCC report.

http://www.logicalscience.com/consensus/consensus.htm

This one is a good rebuke to the doubts being thrown around
last edited: 12/11/07 11:26:44 AM”

“Only 10 grand? That's a lot less than the professors are getting from their grants to support gw, ain't it y2?”

“Climate change critics like Richard Lindzen try to say "There's no consensus on global warming." in the Wall Street Journal, in front of Congress, and many other places. This argument has also been made repeatedly on Fox News.1,2 Other researchers like Dean Dr. Mark H. Thiemens say this "has nothing to do with reality".1,2,3

The following is a list of quotes from scientific organizations, academies, scientists, industry spokesmen, etc supporting the existence of man made climate change and the need to take action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Many of these quotes reference the IPCC or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change which is widely regarded by mainstream scientists as either the "most reliable" or one of the most reliable sources for accurate information on climate change. As you will notice, the evidence against the consensus critics like Lindzen and pundits on Fox News is overwhelming. If you are confused as to whose opinion matters, just pay attention to the peer review science journals and the National Academy of Sciences. For those that don't know, the National Academies are like the Supreme Court of science. The number of climate scientists in the US can be found by examining the members of the American Geophysical Union (AGU). As of November 10, 2006 we know that there is a minimum (no official count of foreign climatologists is available) of 20,000 working climatologists worldwide 1,2. An important fact to remember is that many high profile critics you see in the news do not qualify as climate scientists when these standards are applied. Keep both of these concepts in mind the next time you see a handful of self proclaiming "climate scientists" with dissenting opinions. It is also important to note that Exxon Mobil is funding a $10,000 bounty for climate denialists and skeptics. If only 2% of the 20,000 climatologists were bought out then we'd have 400 deniers (skeptics are convinced by science not money).
last edited: 12/11/07 11:22:47 AM”

“I particualrly like the way that site deals with the messages approved by the Anti-Liberal Axis.”