Global Warming

“simple....clear violations of the 9th and 10th amendments

DOI!”

“hubcap you are correct. One of the driving force of the Environmental Movement IS the Plaintiff attorneys.

Heck if we can get some control on the Attorneys....you will see health insurnace prices drop. But right now Attorney Joe Smurt can sue a major corporation and roll the dice he really has no "major exposure". IF he knew that there was the possiblity that he would be in the pan if he lost (i.e. was required to carry insurance for lost cases) he would be alot more careful.”

“welll Lookie here...the new guru of the Climate Change Agency

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/

His appointment was hailed by both the Sierra Club and Duke Energy Company of North Carolina. Sierra Club President Carl Pope said, "As polluters and their allies continue to try to muddy the waters around climate science, the Climate Service will provide easy, direct access to the valuable scientific research undertaken by government scientists and others." And Duke Energy CEO Jin Rogers said the new office, under Karl, will "spark the consensus we need to move forward."

But Roger Pielke Sr., a climatologist affiliated with the University of Colorado who has crossed horns with Karl in the past, says his appointment was a mistake. He accused Karl of suppressing data he submitted for the IPCC's most recent report on climate change and having a very narrow view of its causes.

The IPCC is charged with reviewing scientific data on climate change and providing policy makers and others with an assessment of current knowledge.”

“
An Oldie but a Goodie ----


January 13, 2008, 11:02 pm
A Starting Point for Productive Climate Discourse
By ANDREW C. REVKIN

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/a-starting-point-for-productive-climate-discourse/

More than 150 new coal-burning power plants are proposed in the United States. (Jeff Swensen for The New York Times)The views expressed here on human-caused climate change run the gamut. It�s a hoax. It�s a catastrophe. It�s a crisis. It�s a manageable trend. It can be fixed with a rising tax on carbon. It can be fixed by making people rich. It can be controlled by dumping something in the air or oceans.

To try to rein in and focus the discussion just a bit, I�ve decided to put up this post as a work in progress, aimed at establishing a list of basic facets of the climate and energy challenge that are not in reasonable dispute (with more to come). As I�ve written for years (as in a feature for AARP�s magazine last summer), the yelling has distracted too many people for too long from the core ideas that are powerfully established.

Heaps of scientists would say that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has already established the scientific foundation for society. Others here (and elsewhere) contend that that effort is tainted by group think. The I.P.C.C. does have faults (as does this blog and just about any other discussion of a complicated heap of science). But, having written about the panel ever since it was created in 1988, I can�t think of any other effort that serves as a better compass for tracking the trajectory and level of understanding of the causes and consequences of climate change, and options for responding to them.

Still, I like the idea of having our own working list here, in part to shift this discussion away from unresolvable whipsaw debates (over issues like how fast and far sea levels will rise by 2100). This list will provide a foundation for weighing policies on the intertwined issues of climate and energy that make sense given what is well known now, and what is unlikely to be clarified any time soon.


Here�s a beginning:

Carbon dioxide is a heat-trapping gas. More of it will inevitably warm the planet. Richard Lindzen of MIT agrees. Pat Michaels of the Cato Institute agrees. The gas has a long residence time in the atmosphere so that it builds as long as more is added than comes out through absorption in the ocean or ecosystems (unlike most other emissions from burning fossil fuels, forests, and the like, which dissipate quickly.)

Warmer times have generally had much higher seas and smaller ice sheets and glaciers. Colder periods have had lower seas and more ice (like the mile-high heap that scoured the knobs of granite in Manhattan�s Central Park 20,000 years ago).

The carbon dioxide buildup is changing the chemistry of surface seawater, lowering its pH in a way that, in theory, could be harmful to the shell-forming and reef-forming marine organisms of today�s ocean ecosystem. (There�s been very little from the traditional �skeptic� community on this. Have I missed something?)

Coal is still abundant, has helped today�s industrial powers become rich, and is helping poorer countries grow their economies. But it comes with significant environmental and social costs (scoured landscapes, carbon dioxide, around 4,000 deaths a year in Chinese mines, tens of thousands of premature deaths from respiratory ailments linked to sooty pollution).

Oil is still reasonably abundant and fairly cheap, but comes with a large external price tag including international conflict, pollution, and (of course) carbon dioxide.

The incineration of tropical forests (most temperate forests are expanding) is bad for the atmosphere, water supplies and biological diversity.

Growing populations and growing energy demand will greatly increase atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases in this century without big changes in technology, policy, or behavior.

If everyone turned off all motors and power plants tomorrow, or jumped in Hummers and jacked up thermostats, the climate system wouldn�t measurably �notice� the difference for at least a few decades (IPCC fourth science assessment). [ADDED 1/14]

Finding renewable sources of energy that are cheap and do not come with significant environmental or security risks or social costs is a good thing, particularly in a world adding roughly 80 million people a year, and where two billion people today only have firewood or dried dung as an energy choice.

Too many people today are vulnerable to the world�s existing climate extremes, and widespread prosperity and security are unlikely to be attained without cutting vulnerability even as long-term climate policies are hashed out. Reducing vulnerability to climate hazards will benefit the world with or without human-driven warming.

More to come. What are your choices for this list, and/or challenges to what I�ve put on it as a first take (please include references, links)?

”

“Poor t*lty and his blogs.”

“
Heavy snow events--a contradiction to global warming theory?

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1427

Global warming skeptics regularly have a field day whenever a record snow storm pounds the U.S., claiming that such events are inconsistent with a globe that is warming. If the globe is warming, there should, on average, be fewer days when it snows, and thus fewer snow storms. However, it is possible that if climate change is simultaneously causing an increase in ratio of snowstorms with very heavy snow to storms with ordinary amounts of snow, we could actually see an increase in very heavy snowstorms in some portions of the world. There is evidence that this is happening for winter storms in the Northeast U.S.--the mighty Nor'easters like the "Snowmageddon" storm of February 5-6 and "Snowpocalypse" of December 19, 2009. Let's take a look at the evidence. There are two requirements for a record snow storm:

1) A near-record amount of moisture in the air (or a very slow moving storm).
2) Temperatures cold enough for snow.

It's not hard at all to get temperatures cold enough for snow in a world experiencing global warming. According to the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report, the globe warmed 0.74�C (1.3�F) over the past 100 years. There will still be colder than average winters in a world that is experiencing warming, with plenty of opportunities for snow. The more difficult ingredient for producing a record snowstorm is the requirement of near-record levels of moisture. Global warming theory predicts that global precipitation will increase, and that heavy precipitation events--the ones most likely to cause flash flooding--will also increase. This occurs because as the climate warms, evaporation of moisture from the oceans increases, resulting in more water vapor in the air. According to the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report, water vapor in the global atmosphere has increased by about 5% over the 20th century, and 4% since 1970. This extra moisture in the air will tend to produce heavier snowstorms, assuming it is cold enough to snow. Groisman et al. (2004) found a 14% increase in heavy (top 5%) and 20% increase in very heavy (top 1%) precipitation events in the U.S. over the past 100 years, though mainly in spring and summer. However, the authors did find a significant increase in winter heavy precipitation events have occurred in the Northeast U.S. This was echoed by Changnon et al. (2006), who found, "The temporal distribution of snowstorms exhibited wide fluctuations during 1901-2000, with downward 100-yr trends in the lower Midwest, South, and West Coast. Upward trends occurred in the upper Midwest, East, and Northeast, and the national trend for 1901-2000 was upward, corresponding to trends in strong cyclonic activity.

”

“Global warming theory predicts that global precipitation will increase


That is freakin' awesome!


Can Global warming theory accurately predict what days it will rain next week?”

“I can, but you gottah buy me beer.”

“"Global Warming" can do anything, arc, just ask TT's leading boys of science, markO and t*lty.”

“LOL! I told you T*lt is going to go down with the ship on this one. He and Al Gore both. LMAO!

Keep fighting the good fight, T*lt!”

“It's totally frikkin amazing that this is still a topic of discussion. The sad fact is that we could continue to increase emissions and cow farts and incandescent bulb burning and enter an mini ice age and they would still be swearing there is a man-made global phenomena. Oh wait, that is exactly what is happening...”

“2 billion people burn wood or dung. There's your culprits. Let's annialate them, take their land, and plant cumbaya berries.”

“Guys, there are a number of relevant ideas in Tiilt's post.

Years ago, I read a book called Limits to Growth which talked about mankind's impact on the planet. It raised valid concerns.

We are having lots of fun with the Global Warming Theorist crisis mongers, but we can all agree that we need to keep an open mind on these issues.


Just as long as none of you proposes nuclear power! Good heavens don't you know we'll make the planet glow at night! Nuclear power is not an option! Restructuring our entire economy is the only option! We need to let the emerging nations catch up to us so that we're collectively equal. Don't you get it?


Gainesville sees second-coldest winter ever
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100303/ARTICLES/3031004/1118?Title=Gainesville-sees-second-coldest-winter-ever

Global Warming Theory has probably already predicted this. And some time during the next 10 years, when we finally do have more, and stronger, hurricanes, as Global Warming Theory has already predicted, Global Warming Theory advocates can (and will) shake their fingers at the infidels who are unbelievers.”

“libbies are advocates of global warming”

““2 billion people burn wood or dung. There's your culprits. Let's annialate them, take their land, and plant cumbaya berries." The wood and dung are more recent solar energy , not something that has been formed millions of paychecks ago.”

“Guys its a RELIGION. You don't have to have evidence of their religion but it is and always has been the Socialists last great hope of taking over the world after the Soviet Union crashed down like MarkO's nutbra hitting the bathroom floor.”

“Methane Bubbles in Arctic Raise Warming Fears

AP

Concerns about global warming have centered on rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, but scientists note that methane can be 30 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

WASHINGTON -- Methane, a potent global warming gas, is bubbling out of the frozen Arctic faster than had been expected.

Methane had become trapped in the permafrost over time and a warming climate is now resulting in its release, researchers report in Friday's edition of the journal Science.

"The amount of methane currently coming out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is comparable to the amount coming out of the entire world's oceans," said Natalia Shakhova, of the University of Alaska Fairbanks International Arctic Research Center and the co-author.

Concerns about global warming have centered on rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, but scientists note that methane can be 30 times more effective at trapping heat than carbon dioxide.

Historically, methane concentrations in the world's atmosphere have ranged between 0.3 and 0.4 parts per million in cool periods to 0.6 to 0.7 in warm periods. Current methane concentrations in the Arctic average about 1.85 parts per million, the scientists said, the highest in 400,000 years.”

“tipping point

I'm guessing several degrees are already baked in the cake.”

“�The Science is Settled,� They Told Copernicus.”

“If this methane release they have spotted is indeed something new, it is likely the result of permafrost melting. That is a bell that the climate change alarmists have been ringing for quite a while and could result in one hell of a positive feedback loop.”

““�The Science is Settled,� They Told Copernicus.”

TT is proof there are still floaters all around, Stovie.”

“They left out when the new trend began in the news article. What is the timespan? Kind of important in the context of the discussion. Anybody know the answer?”

“They left out when the new trend began in the news article. What is the timespan? Kind of important in the context of the discussion. Anybody know the answer?

I don't think anyone knows that. I'm pretty sure it is well documented that permafrost is melting in many places that it hasn't melted in a long time. But I doubt anyone has been looking for methane bubbles for any length of time.”

“here come the jokes about the bathtub”

“hubcap..the thing EVERYONE keeps missing is that the warming is very possibly the NATURAL COURSE OF EARTH CLIMATE CHANGE!!!

meaning we could burn the crap out of coal, spray BILLIONS of cans of hair spray and NOT make a SH load of difference.”

“Undoubtedly there are a lot of people out there that can not get past: climate change = our doing. That gets back to the crux of whether anything should be done to attempt mitigating the affects of climate change, even if it is completely non-anthropogenic.

There are probably an equal number that will not accept that humans could alter the climate and therefore they will not acknowledge global warming if it was staring them in the face.”

“The religion is losing prospective acolytes by the second.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126560/Americans-Global-Warming-Concerns-Continue-Drop.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- Gallup's annual update on Americans' attitudes toward the environment shows a public that over the last two years has become less worried about the threat of global warming, less convinced that its effects are already happening, and more likely to believe that scientists themselves are uncertain about its occurrence. In response to one key question, 48% of Americans now believe that the seriousness of global warming is generally exaggerated, up from 41% in 2009 and 31% in 1997, when Gallup first asked the question.”

“First it was the Siberian bubbles, now it's the Antarctic critters that are farting under the covers.

BALTIMORE � Microbes living under ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland could be churning out large quantities of the greenhouse gas methane, a new study suggests.

In recent years scientists have learned that liquid water lurks under much of Antarctica�s massive ice sheet, and so, they say, the potential microbial habitat in this watery world is huge. If the methane produced by the bacteria gets trapped beneath the ice and builds up over long periods of time � a possibility that is far from certain � it could mean that as ice sheets melt under warmer temperatures, they would release large amounts of heat-trapping methane gas.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/03/antarctic-methane-lakes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wiredscience+(Blog+-+Wired+Science)”

“Mark you calendars. March 27th @ 8:30pm the whole world is going to participate in Earth hour where everyone who is cool and love the earth will turn all their lights off and SAVE THE PHUCKING WORLD! Be a good little lemming and do your part.

Personally I'm turning every single light on in the house and setting fire to a pile of tires in the back yard.

https://www.myearthhour.org/home”

“libbies are so silly”

“Rebel without a cause.”

“T*lt will want to kill your grandchildren now.”

“France Backs Off From Carbon Tax


Poor t*lt. All his heroes are letting him down.”

“The outspoken chairman of the U.N.’s climate change body is to adopt a neutral advisory role and has agreed to stop making statements demanding new taxes and other radical policies on cutting emissions.


LMAO!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/27/embattled-climate-chief-apologizes-response-criticism-wont-resign/”

“I guess the fight and rush to the funding wallets got the best of these crooks. Kinda like the Anti- health care bunch stepping on each others feet for some Insurance and Pharma money being spent over the summer and into the last weeks vote. It's not over with HC, that big time money will come pouring in until Nov. GW will not go away either.”

“
March 30, 2010
Are humans 'too stupid' to prevent climate change?
Posted: 06:00 PM ET

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/30/are-humans-too-stupid-to-prevent-climate-change/

An enormous iceberg breaks off the Knox Coast in the Australian Antarctic Territory. Australia's CSIRO's atmospheric research unit has found the world is warming faster than predicted by the United Nations' top climate change body, with harmful emissions exceeding worst-case estimates. (PHOTO CREDIT: TORSTEN BLACKWOOD/AFP/Getty Images)


FROM CNN's Jack Cafferty:

A new climate bill that would cap carbon emissions, increase offshore oil drilling and expand nuclear power generation may soon be making its way to the Senate floor.

Senators John Kerry, Joe Lieberman, and Lindsey Graham - a Democrat, Independent and Republican respectively - are reportedly drafting legislation with broader appeal than the last climate change bill, which stalled in the Senate in the fall. The hope is that more conservatives and moderates will get on-board this time.

But it doesn't really matter, according to one of the biggest names in climate change. James Lovelock, a British scientist at the forefront of global warming research, says humans are too dumb to prevent climate change and that democracy is partly to blame.

In a new interview published in the British paper "The Guardian," Lovelock says climate change is an issue that may be as severe as a war and that "even the best democracies agree that when a major war approaches, democracy must be put on hold for the time being." Lovelock says that may eventually be necessary when it comes to global warming. He also claims only a catastrophic event now could persuade people to really take the threat of climate change seriously.

Here�s my question to you: Are humans "too stupid" to prevent climate change?



If the users on this board are any indication, the human race is toast.


”

“The tax code is the culprit, you know it, I ki and so should yawl ki.”

“Remember back when the alarmists were on here saying it was "science" and they kept bringing up that everything was "peer reviewed".

And remember how we kept saying that the "peers" were in on it?

LMAO!

Funny how they don't say that any more...”

“I remember that. Good times!


I would love to see the undoubtedly looong list of dire predictions from the alarmists that failed to materialize, lol. Maybe one of the smart folks can find it.”

“I remember the lefties on here laughing at me because I said that the man who created the hurricane model (Gray) said that we weren't going to have extreme hurricane seasons like the "new" scientists were saying. They all told me he was a has-been, over-the-hill hack. (why did they say that? ... oh, that's right - he ALSO said global warming is bunk)

haha

Of course, we now know, he was right.”

“If there is such a large percentage of anti-environmental imbeciles running loose then human extinction is inevitable --- and well earned.”

“^^^ notice, no mention of science or peer-reviewed studies ^^^”

“Its brain is off the grid, but that's nothing new ----”

“Gawd is right, the rest are just what's left.”

“...funny how it just HAPPENS to assist in a socialist, anti-capitalist agenda, under the guise of saving the planet.�
HighPlainsDrifter

How are the communist infiltrators doing?

They must be swarming ashore..............somewhere by now.

Pass the ammunition, psycho squirrel.”

“We got one as President since that post, so .... looks like I was right AGAIN.”

“oh, and as majority party leader.”