TT Scouter support network

“Pamela: in your troop, how is the food for the trips planned, bought, packaged, and cooked?

ASUDave, this will be a lot of fun for you, and its not brain surgery. A few backpacks and everybody is an expert. Your scouts will have a better quality of experience, in my opinion, with a backpacking trip than with a car camping trip. With car camping, there is no physical challenge. Your challenge is basically to set up your tent, and feed yourself, maybe go on a day hike. With a backpacking trip, the challenge is to get your gear down to 20-30 pounds, and have everything you need to survive: keep yourself and your partners dry and warm; start fires as if your life depended on it; plan, buy and cook your food; navigate up a trail and not get lost; and the physical challenge of carrying the pack; plus all this happens in a place that can be awesomely beautiful, with fishing in lakes, swimming in lakes, and just being away from cars and roads (and coolers, trailers, picnic tables, water in pipes, etc) is a nice and different environment.”

“ASUDave,

The guide that Philmont sends out, here and many other places are a great help in finding out what gear to get and to take.

Make sure that your Philmont crew has a couple of multi day trips together before going on the 10 day trek. You will need the time together to work out group dynamics.”

“Usually food for us was done by patrol,
but when backpacking it was done by the buddy system. The boys all went grocery shopping during meeting time and it became a lesson in packable foods.”

“Backpacking meals or carcamping meals, it's pretty much the same deal. Either one is done by patrols, the patrols are generally smaller on backpack trips.

Meals are planned by patrols (boys). Grubbers (boys) shop for it. They submit receipt(s) for reimbursement the next meeting. They are allowed $3.00 per boy per meal for each trip. We collect about $12.00 for a trip from each boy. Friday nights each boy brings his own sack dinner to eat in vehicles on the way up. On backpacks when we get to the trailhead, the grubber breaks up the food between boys to carry. At night, it all goes into bear cannisters along with ALL smellables.”

“I really like that approach! hadn't thought of doing it that way, but it makes sense.”

“We have been greatly blessed by this troop; BrianSean made a very wise choice when he picked this troop above all the others.

The patrols are of mixed ages*, so older boys teach younger boys meal planning, cooking etc. The meal plans are checked over of course to make sure they are not cheating and subsisting on ramen and poptarts and soda, LOL! They do try that occasionally

*Sometimes of course one boy will want to create a new patrol of his own and he will get several boys together and make the request, if he has enough boys and it seems like a "good" mix, we will let it happen.”

“Typical Troop 61 Patrol Menu,

Sat. Morning: Donuts and Chocolate milk
Sat. Lunch: Sandwiches and cookies
Sat Dinner: Ramen Noodles and poptarts
Sun Breakfast: Donuts and chocolate milk”

“LOL!”

“Nothing, and I mean NOTHING can beat homemade donuts made in camp by the incomparable Mr. David Dinwiddie! That was a great feature of any trip to the Smokies when HPM was scoutmaster.

There's a thread about Mr. Dinwiddie somewhere in this website, concerning when he fell and was injured on a New Years Eve trip a few years ago, up above Cosby.”

“ChuckD, that's great! My troop is Troop 61 as well and, before I got there, that was the majority of their meal plans.

While I totally believe in the boy-led concept, if the boys don't know anything other than Ramen and sandwiches, they don't really learn anything. If we're car camping, we always break out the Dutch Ovens and the boys are learning some pretty good dishes that way.

As far as the Philmont multi-day trips, we're planning just that. The problem right now is that very few of our crew have done any serious backpacking before. So, we're starting early with some "conditioning" trips (day hikes leading to overnights leading to multi-day trips). Next spring, before we go to Philmont for our 12-day, we'll have a 5-day in the White Mountains here in AZ. We've heard that they have similar terrain to Philmont.”

“Boy led concept works when the older boys lead. The younger boys learn from them and sooner then you can believe it, they are the older boys.”

“Except, in this case, there hasn't been solid adult leadership for years. Even the older boys (there are very few left) don't really know a whole lot when it comes to Scouting. When I came in, I was told by the CC and the COR to treat it as if I had started from scratch.”

“Well, I guess that's what you'll have to do then. Perhaps hold a JLT? You could also use the time to teach the backpacking tips that you are learning so that they in turn can teach them to the boys. Maybe even take them on the trips first?”

“ASU - years ago i took over a troop taht had almost died and had to start from scratch. Luckily I had one older kid that had been in the troop prior to its decline and he became the SPL. Over a few months, he became more and more of the leader - we had one patrol that found a leader and it grew from their. I stepped farther and farther back and then it had it's own life. It wasn't easy and you have to let them fall a couple of times until they catch on.”

“A good reference for car camp meals is "Camp Cookery for Small Groups". You can get it from the Scout Shop, meal plans for groups of 8, complete with ingredients, directions and what pots and utensils are needed. When the boys get lazy about cooking the reach into hat and pull out their dinner from that book.”

“We actually have a JLT (called Troop Leadership Training now) planned for a troop meeting next month. We were going to have a special weekend to do it, but the only boys who show up on a regular basis to troop meeting are the leadership anyway. And, since the boys planned for June's theme to be "Leadership" anyway, they thought it would be a good idea to have it then. Besides, TLT is something that everyone can benefit from, not just the leaders.”

“Good Plan Dave. For your leaders get them through TRAINING as soon as possible.

I highly advise if they are going to be on campouts they go through the Scoutmaster fundamentals, and the Outdoor leader training (prefer to finish with Wood Badge)

Three advantages
1. They know the rules and get an understanding of the options open to them.
2. The MEET other leaders who will offer advice
3. Get them to invest something and they want payback...meaning they will give more of their time.”

“WHOO HOO....just got back from the Troop Meeting, picked up thre new youth (16 age bracket with GOOD experience) and another leader.

UM...oh...Pam, look got a small problem, I put your photo up on the board as (Future Backpacking Chairman) (LOL)...JK.

Nah this is great. The tough thing is my Troop is more of a "Island of Misfit Scouts" than anything. Its cool the kids come here (got two with Aspergers and one with a little more severe case of Autisim) and they THRIVE.

One of my Eagles was a kid that as a Tenderfoot I would not have paid the money for the bullet to shoot him. He is now a close friend and is Incredible with the "tough scouts".

The cool part is my older youth leaders who have been with us a while have learned to rotate duties so no one gets burned out.”

“That IS a problem, cause you're in. . . Georgia? (Georgia! is that where you are?) Georgia and I ain neva gonna end up dere! 5 years from now BrianSean will graduate and I just MAY leave the state of confus, I mean California, but your state ain't on the list honey. I am soooo sorry. LOL! ;O)

I am glad to hear that you are picking up a new leader, hey that's always great news! And your Eagle Scout, WOW! That's awesome, a great testimony to your leadership I'm sure. In fact it sounds like everything is going well in your troop, good on you!

Btw, which photo did you use? I hope it's a good one of me.”

“Sadly Pam, I know many leaders from other states (including the Left Coast (LOL)) who tell me of losing youth because they won't or Don't fit in.

Sadly the stereotype of Georgia and the south is the only allowable "bigoted stereotype" I see. I was at the movies the other week and they played a short from Cartoon Network one of the witnesses was John Cracker (a white rural chap). I wonder if I ran a commercial and had a black participant listed as "Rastus Ni@@er" if anyone would see a problem?

To the people who see the deep south as backwards and hick (Remember Deliverance). I tell them this. Its midway through a scalding hot summer. You are going to bump into a guy and knock all his stuff out of his arms, you want to do it in Downtown Metter Georgia or New York City?”

“Doesn't simply being a Scout put us in the misfit category?”

“Pammie, you'd already fit in, in the South, you just don't know it. All your kids have 2 names. That describes 1/4 of the population here. Granted, BrainSean doesn't have the same ring to it that BubbaEarle does here.”

“YOU know what...Day is right! I never thought of that....BrianSean is sort of a Californiazation of Bubba Joe or something.....

And lets not forget Michael Jackson is from California...come on, here is a guy who thinks Deliverance was just a tender love story....(LOL)

Pammie, before you go dissing us ( I know you were kidding) You might want to remember that following HUGO the entire State of South Carolina had 3 FEMA reps. Following Northridge LA alone had 150 agents.....

I guess we are still an independent culture for the most part.

HPM. I heard it said one time, "If building charachter, learning tough lessons, and becoming a productive citizen is wierd or misfit? Bring it on!"”

“i have been asked to come in and build stoves with the boys that are working on their camping merit badge. they are doing a backpack trip... 4 miles down a limestone paved "rails to trails" bike path in town to a forest preserve with cars parked ready for camping. my son is with this group and i was told that all the backpacking he does with me doesn't count for the merit badge because it's not a "scout outing". bah! i can understand that last argument because the goal is to get the boys to do things together -but- if they won't call my sons backpacking as credit towards the badge then I could easily argue that what they are doing isn't really "backpacking" and shouldn't count either. basically my give a sh*t factor is zero now and I am just doing what I am asked at this point.”

“i wanted to add that i recognize the requirement is for 20 days and 20 nights camping at a scout event. it's just the attitude that hacks me off.”

“Jimmy I understand your concern...the reason for kinda putting a kybosh on Stuff you do with your kid is more of a "long term thing"..

Now with you I have no doubt if you said Jr had done it it was DONE>

I had a Father who was a big donor to Scouts. His son TOOK off and made First Class the first summer. It seemed like everytime he turned around he was getting another merit badge.

Then I heard he got the 50 miler award and a couple of other (think HIKING merit badge etc). Well at 13 he made Eagle.

The next month we were on a Order of the Arrow conclave meeting and it started raining. He couldn't tie a knot or set up a tarp heck he was unable to do ANYTHING he should have learned.

Turns out DADDY got most of the merit badges signed off by another leader who he was pals with.

I can also tell you that there have been kids who came in with First Aid checked off who have made actions or suggestions that clearly show they have no idea of even the minor points of First Aid.”

“My plan for world domination, starting with converting my troop from car camping to backpacking, is coming along nicely. Our first backpacking trip is this weekend, and we are hiking in 2 miles to a wilderness hot springs, and camping nearby. 17 people signed up, all parent and son pairs, almost all younger scouts. Now its time to put up or shut up.

I had hoped to get 6 kids exposed to backpacking this year, and there are going to be 10 kids on this trip. These kids will be fully trained and up to speed after a few trips, and will be the troop leaders next year. They'll help me indoctrinate the next crop, and by then the present Life scouts (the car campers) will be gone.

We are going to cook in cook groups of 4, mostly parent/ son teams, with each pair buying their own food based on my recommendations. A scout will be "patrol leader" of each cookgroup, but it will mostly be a learning position, as most have never been backpacking.

What is the title of the older scout who "runs" the trip? I might have one of those and I'll ask him to do a lot of leadership tasks, with the goal of him running the show as much as possible.

Wish me luck!”

“I wonder how BrianSean would look in a John Deere hat?

I'm am only teasing with you. Please don't get mad that I'm taking some liberties with your childrens names. My mom intended me to go by my first and middle names but that sort of fell away once I got to grade school. The office can always tell who is calling when they ask for my first and middle name on the phone.”

“i was told that all the backpacking he does with me doesn't count for the merit badge because it's not a "scout outing".

Bull#&%!$, they are wrong.
Nowhere in the Backpacking merit badge requirements does it say or imply that all requirements must be completed in the context of an official troop or even BSA activity. It it were a requirement it would state it. The BSA recognizes that not all troops engage in every type of activity and as such merit badges are considered independent study as in outside to typical troop activities.
last edited: 5/22/07 10:10:36 AM”

“I can't wait for Reece to get to scouting age. He's 7 now. By then he'll probably have more backcountry bag nights than his whole scout troup combined.”

“this is for the camping merit badge. so it's 20 days and 20 nights camping at a scouting event and they have to do two things from a list. one of them is backpacking 4 miles. i still think it's silly.”

“Whoops.
My bad, I thought you said backpacking MB.”

“Actually, I think I have a pic of BrianSean around here with a John Deere hat on; or is that one of my other boys? Hmmmmmm

No, the only reason I wouldn't move to Georgia is the weather. Humidity, yuck! I wouldn't move back to my birth state of CT either, or Long Island where my husband is from. Or South Carolina where some of Steve's family has moved to, (I did Basic Training there). I HATE humidity! And I won't move anywhere that there are Hurricanes or Tornados. Weather is a big issue for me.”

“UM no problem there....I will take the Tornado and Hurricane any day over Earthquakes (LOL)...and ARNOLD (LOL).

bob I started with the kids doing the 2 mile things....the other weekend we did 16 (light gear for the kids main pack for me) and it went GREAT.”

“I totally understand about Arnold, hey I didn't vote for him! Earthquakes are nothing, so far, LOL! I've been through a bunch, 6 has been the highest so far for me I think. That 6 was way out in the desert, so while I stood in the doorway at 6am in the morning with my children, I still wasn't all that paniced. You get used to it.”

“Yep, I'll take an event that you can see coming at you on radar over a totally random event anyday.

I'm not a fan of our humidity either. I got all ashy when I was out in CO for a meeting though.”

“I've lived everywhere.
It's all good.

But I have to say I'm not a fan of humidity either. After living in Florida, North Carolina feels like a desert.
last edited: 5/22/07 3:31:31 PM”

“Well once you get above I 20 it gets better. Now me I never campout below I-85 from May to September if I can help it.

But I love the south, great people close communities....”

“Yep, that's about right.”

“What is the title of the older scout who "runs" the trip? I might have one of those and I'll ask him to do a lot of leadership tasks, with the goal of him running the show as much as possible.”

“The Senior Patrol Leader runs the troop and by default all the troop activities. In the absence of the SPL his Assistant Senior Patrol Leader runs things

If neither is going then tap a Patrol Leader for that task.
last edited: 5/23/07 11:12:09 AM”

“my problem is that all the boys going are tenderfoot scouts, 11-12 years old. One older scout might go, but maybe not.”

“Nothing but tenderfeet? That'll be like herding cats for sure!”

“So none of them hold any leadership positions yet.
Ok, no biggie.
Let them elect someone to act as a crew chief/leader for the trip.”

““Nothing but tenderfeet? That'll be like herding cats for sure!”
treebait

LOL Good Positive Thinking.

Bob, HPM is right. You set it up to where the "success levels" are obtainable. And from my experience (restarted a troop 10 years ago with 11 and 12 year olds) you will be amazed at the way these kids can step up if they need to.

Lets all look at the big picture. Say we go to do 8 miles in one day and we end up just doing 4 but the kids have a blast....DID THEY HAVE FUN?

IF yes...you were successful”

“Scouting is always like herding cats.
Only some cats are better trained than others.

Good kitty.”

“Man...hearding cats...thats easy compared to what we deal with (LOL)>”

“True dat.

I used to have "spear catcher, flame juggler. cat herder" on my business cards.

Stand back folks, we're professionals.
last edited: 5/23/07 3:41:01 PM”

“UM no the professionals get paid...we do it for the "One hour a week" fun...LOL”

“Sez you. I work for tips and folks tip well.
Unfortunately it's been a bit rough on the bottom line as the bank doesn't accept helpful advice as currency.
last edited: 5/23/07 3:53:51 PM”