TT Scouter support network

“Last night was Cub Scouts. The kids had to show a collection and tell about it. My son did leaves. Another kid did sea shells. The teacher says, "Boys, where do you have shells? Are shells on mountains?" Everyone in the class goes, "Noooo." I simultaneously said, "Yessss." She turns and says really? I explained. Later they're passing the shells for the individual kids to see and I point to a shell and am explaining to Reece that the little mini-shell pieces hanging to this one shell are called barnacles. I said it too loud because the teacher then asks what barnacles are. I explain.

I felt like I was in 12th grade and was the class nerd all over again. I have to learn to keep my mouth shut.”

“Got into work this morning and had a email from Philmont, we got a trek spot at Double H for 2009. Time to get to work.”

“Kewl!”

“I always wanted to go to Philmont (and now double H too).
Wasted my first chance as a kid.
Lost my second chance when I moved.
Third times the charm so I hear.
last edited: 11/30/07 7:27:39 AM”

“HPM, I'll let you know if I have an opening for an adult, so far it's just me and 7 boys.”

“I really appreciate the offer but I am uncertain if I could even go.”

“So what is different about a backpack in Philmont and a backpack in another mountainous area? We are thinking of applying to Philmont, but for this summer we were thinking of having our own scout camp in a forest, and from there go on two backpacks of three days, maybe with different kids on each backpack. While in camp we could do day hikes and merit badge classes, and camping skills.”

“Ugh! We have a Philmont trek spot for this summer and it looks like I'm not going to be able to go. Just can't make it work from a leave standpoint.”

“Philmont has programs associated with the trek. You hike from camp to camp and do activities. Some camps have staff and a structured program(moutain biking, climbing, challenge course, black powder), and some are unstaffed trail camps where you can do your own thing.

Philmont also has fantastic logistics and medical support.

For a mountain area troop like yours, the area itself is not nearly as cool as it is for the majority of scouts that come from less senic areas, but it's still worth experiencing.”

“Philmont is an experience unlike any other scout outing. The boys in our contingent really had a great time with the camp activities. They also enjoyed meeting scouts from other areas of the country. Prior to staring our Philmont trip, our group went to Colorado Springs to visit the Air Force Academy, Pikes Peak and other interesting sites. We had the time of our lives!”

“My son is getting his first class rank tonight and is occasionally stoked about getting some merit badges and moving toward Eagle.

We have a guy who is proposing that we do our own scout camp, in a forest setting 2 hrs from Boise. There is an 8 mile stretch of not too deep, pretty slow meandering river where we could canoe and fish, plus its right next to a nice lake, at about 6000 feet, so nice and cool even in summer. His plan is to focus on outdoor skills and parts of the harder outdoors merit badges, like hiking, backpacking, orienteering, cooking.

We would buy a propane water heater for showers ($400) and have two packpacks during the week that kids could go on. One backpack would be required of all scouts, unless they have a medical reason not to. Hiking trails abound, with several good options for 3-4 day backpacks.

Have others in troops done something like this? Are there some merit badges that would be good to teach in this setting? Pitfalls that we should watch out for?

The problems at other camps we are hoping to improve on are they are generally a 12 hour drive away, and we spend about $1200 in gas getting there, and another $9000 for camp fees. They are far away, so parents can't come up for a few days in mid week. They are super dusty, and a lot of time is spent with nothing to do. They tend to focus on "fluff" merit badges, and not on outdoor skills or outdoor merit badges, which are harder to get done. And the food is lousy.

What things will we miss, and have to create a homegrown version of at our camp?”

“Our troop has done something similar, although not exactly the same. A couple of items of concern for me:

1) Council camps usually have a greater range of merit badges than you can do yourself in one week. Also, they allow boys some individual freedom in the merit badges they take. It sounds like, from your post, that your council camps don't offer many of the outdoor merit badges, which is a shame. Is there any suggestion process to get those merit badges on the schedule for next year?

2) In my experience, the boys seem to really enjoy meeting, working, and playing with other Scouts around the council that they don't usually have interaction with.

3) Make sure that there are a variety of activities for the different age groups in your troop. You'll start to lose the older boys if there aren't fun, challenging, and interesting things for them to do that are different than what the younger boys are doing. Usually, your younger boys will be hard working toward advancement, while your older boys may be looking for different experiences.

4) Make sure you are doing an honest cost/benefit analysis of doing your own summer camp. While it may seem less expensive on the surface, the cost of food, logistics, staff/adult leaders (including time off work during camp and preparing for camp), any teaching or merit badge materials, etc starts to add up quickly. If you don't do an honest analysis, you may end up spending more doing your own camp, which may not be bad if the benefits are there.

5) Remember that the reason some of the merit badges you stated are difficult to get is because they usually take extended periods of time. For instance, the backpacking merit badge requires a 5-day backpacking trip and 3 3-day trips. Also, the hikes for the hiking merit badge cannot be used to fulfill the requirements of any other merit badge.

Not trying to talk you out of it, just food for thought.”

“My troop actually had a large tract of land in the Sierra donated to them by our local church, we were going to do what you're thinking of but after I checked on all the details with the local council & learned the required regulations, documentation, etc., etc. etc., we decided against it!

You can do your own thing, just don't "officially" call it a Scout Camp or you'll have to meet all of the BSA regs, they can be very restrictive.”

“If its just your troop, then I don't think you necessarily have to jump through all the council hoops, as troops are allowed to do long-term camping, etc. Just make sure everything is according to GTSS and a tour permit is filed.

However, once you start inviting other troops and having an actual summer camp, that's when you should follow the reqs from the council. If I'm not mistaken, one of the reqs is having a certified camp director which, I believe, requires going to National Camping School.”

“Good ideas, and points to consider. it sounds like our troop has written off our councils camp, and thus goes out of the area, hence the long drives. It would be an extended car camp, with no other troops involved.

I knew about the hiking requirements, of a number of 10 mile hikes and one 20 mile hike. I thought we could knock off one of the 10 mile hikes at least for the older boys.

For the backpacking merit badge the backpack at camp would fulfill one of the 3 required backpacks of 15 miles. The 5 day backpack would not be done at camp, but if the kids planned the 3 day, they would know how to plan the 5 day.”

“However, once you start inviting other troops and having an actual summer camp, that's when you should follow the reqs from the council. If I'm not mistaken, one of the reqs is having a certified camp director which, I believe, requires going to National Camping School.”


ASUDave has nailed it, just don't make it a camp available to other troops. If you don't do that, then, as has been written, it's just a long-term camp & fill out the usual paperwork, no big deal.”

“IMHO I think it would be wiser for you to be knocking off all those harder outdoor badges throughout the year and take them to a regular summer camp for all the reasons that ASUDave mentioned in his first post.

Camps change from year to year with staff changes, you might want to find exactly what caused them to write off your particular council camp and see if the same things are still going on. Also a camp never knows what is wrong unless they are told "in writing" precisely what is wrong, without that info, how can they change anything at all?”

“Another thing you may want to do is check out other types of council camps. I'm not sure what your council offers, but I think that here in our council, they have 2 full time camps and an Aquatics & Nature day camp. Not to mention, the various high adventure bases around the country (Philmont, Boundary Waters, etc).

Also, like Pamela said, find out from your boys what they didn't like about the council camps, then work your hardest to try to fix the problems (either with the camp or with the boys, as applicable). Also, I would encourage some of your older boys to apply for a staff job. I did that as a boy, and, not only were they two of the most memorable summers of my life, but it gave me a chance to take "ownership" of my camp.”

“Oh yeah, definetly put your boys on staff, last year we had 5 or 6 of them on staff, my own son and daughter included. they start at age 14 as C.I.T.s when they turn 16, they become "paid" staff. they had a great time, they learned leadership skills, teamwork, etc. they came back better Scouts. the camp becomes Home for them. they find many good friends and make brothers and sisters out of them. i still have staffers visiting me. i plan to be working there myself this summer.”

“I was a CIT when I was 14. That summer, during a week at the pool, I got my BSA Lifeguard. The next summer, I came back as a paid lifeguard. Getting paid to camp! Sounds like my dream job.

In my council, we had a week of staff camp, 3 weeks of Scout camp, and 2 weeks of Cub day camp (we still camped, which means we had the entire camp to ourselves at night).”

“Jim has finished one year in scouts, and got elected patrol leader last night. He is 11, soon to be 12. The troop has approved a schedule next summer that includes 7 backpacks, actually 8 counting our home grown "scout camp."

I was wondering if a car camping troop could be turned around to backpacking, and so far the response has been very appreciative and supportive. About 1/2 the kids and parents, which is most of the older boys, would generally prefer car camping, but we have new scouts joining this year strictly for the backpacking opportunities. I am a bit surprised at how quickly and easily the turnaround happened, basically based on one guy being the instigator (me).”

“That's cool... I'm always glad to see/hear of young kids interested in something other than an XBOX.

I do have some concerns about taking 10 kids out in the wilderness... they can be very destructive!

However, I get the impression that you are a rather responsible fella... Probably not gonna turn 'em loose with hatchets and saws...

I think it's good news! Hope it works out for you.”

“they can be very destructive

Only if you don't manage them properly.”

“The trip that we really let them go wild and crazy is always to Red River Gorge. Its not in our state, so we tell them to get all the hatchet and saw use, on-trail camping, and throwing litter and uneaten food into the bushes, noise making, fireworks, and stuff like that out of their system. We put Ohio plates on our cars, to throw off the blame.”

“I do the same thing bob, sure beats the heck out of messin' with texas.”

“Good point. Only we bring a little toxic waste too.
It puts out a nice glow after the bonfire dies down.”

““The trip that we really let them go wild and crazy is always to Red River Gorge. Its not in our state, so we tell them to get all the hatchet and saw use, on-trail camping, and throwing litter and uneaten food into the bushes, noise making, fireworks, and stuff like that out of their system. We put Ohio plates on our cars, to throw off the blame.”

Dead on!
You know we found a little chunk of 2x4 nailed to a tree once. It had a bar of soap sitting on it. Right below that, a pallet.
Next to that, a 55 gallon platic drum filled with garbage!
OHIO!”

“ickyma, you are an idiot. We have ways to handle the "problems" as a rule I will put my 11 year old scouts up against a similar number of the best tree huggers you got. Mine will probably do the LEAVE NO TRACE better than you would think.

I don't really worry about axes and saws...we have squaw wood that is perfectly fine.”

“http://www.wpbf.com/news/15194935/detail.html



Teens Unremorseful After Stealing From Girl Scout

Police: Charges Could Be Pending

BOYNTON BEACH, Fla. -- The State Attorney's Office will decide whether to charge two teens who admit they robbed a 9-year-old Girl Scout selling cookies outside of a Boynton Beach supermarket.

"I thought that it was a really mean thing to do, and I was sad after," Girl Scout Gracie Smith told WPBF News 25.

Authorities said that a 17-year-old girl in a hot-pink sweatshirt approached Smith outside of a Winn-Dixie supermarket at Hypoluxo and Jog roads in Boynton Beach Wednesday evening and asked the girl what her favorite cookies were. Police told WPBF that, while Smith was telling the teen about her favorite Cinna-Spins, the teen snatched an envelope containing about $167 off of Smith's table, hopped into another teen's car and drove away.

Smith told WPBF that she turned to her mother in tears, saying, "Mommy! That girl took all my money!"

Authorities said they caught up with the 17-year-old girl Thursday and pulled her out of class at Park Vista High School, where she allegedly confessed to the crime, WPBF reported. Investigators said the girl's female accomplice, another a Park Vista student, also confessed.

The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office said that the case has been handed over to the State Attorney's Office to determine if charges will be filed against the teens.

Smith's mother, Charlene Rubenstrunk, told WPBF that the girls returned to the store Thursday to taunt her daughter.

"They are within 10 feet of the same kid they just robbed last night and there is nothing anybody can do about it. I find that offensive," Rubenstrunk said.

The girls, whose names are not being released because they are minors, told WPBF that they were not remorseful for the crime, and that they did it because they "needed money."

"We went through all that effort to get it, we got all these charges and we had to give the money back. I'm kind of pissed," one of the girls told WPBF.

The other girl told WPBF that she was upset because police found them.

"I'm not sorry, I'm just pissed that I got caught," the girl said.

Money collected from the cookie sales were supposed to go toward Smith's sleep-over trip with Troop 664 to the Miami Seaquarium. Police were unable to recover the stolen money, but a father of one of the teens accused in the crime paid the money back to Smith's mother, WPBF reported.

Authorities said the teens were not charged because they did not use force to steal the money, nor did they take the money from the Girl Scout’s hands.

The State Attorney's Office will decide if the teens will be charged.

The Winn-Dixie supermarket is donating $200 to the troop, WPBF reported.


******************************************

Already playing the 'Victim Card'.”

“Authorities said the teens were not charged because they did not use force to steal the money, nor did they take the money from the Girl Scout’s hands.

say what?”

“Apparently the term "theft by taking" and conspiracy to commit Felony theft" were lost with "how to vote in elections" in Florida...Florida..God's waiting room.

Anyone want to comment on how this should be taken care of? NO?

Anyone see anything a BIT wrong with the fact that the girl scouts (earning money for positive programs) can be harassed by the very thieves who attacked them?”

“Thanks for #&%!$ing this one up too.”

“Isn't retaliation a felony?”

“Give XL a bellows, red hot poker, and coal fire and he'll get the truth out of them.”

“On a serious note, My 2nd grader got 2nd place in the Pine Wood Derby race. I think we had a grand total of 2 hrs in the car. While drilling holes in the car to add weights I accidently drilled through the roof of the car. Thank goodness for stickers to cover it. I avoided stitches from the drill bit and the hand is healing nicely 8)”

“dayhikers post reminded me of all the problems we had with the Dad's when I was a cubmaster! :) We always had a number of different awards for the boys cars' - BUT so many of the Dad's got carried away working on them & it became obvious that the scout himself didn't build the car, so we ended up having "Dad Awards" so they could get crazy building their own car & then actually have the scout build his own car & learn a little of the skills he was supposed to! They (the Dad's!) ended up having as much fun as the scouts, and the scouts actually got to have a legitimate comopetition with each other instead of trying to have his scout car compete with a Dad car!!”

“There was obviously lots of dad help in the event. We tried for a Herbie the love bug car. I cut out the curve on a band saw and sanded it on a belt sander. He helped with the hand sanding, paint, stickers, and the like. I should have had him do the weights and glue. This was the night before the race and I was bleeding and just wanted it over with 8) The other thing I should have had him do was the filing of the axles and graphite. Now that we know what to expect I look for us to have a better effort next year.

One thing that cracked me up was that he saw the ramp and asked if we were going to jump the cars. He was picturing us on the downhill side with the cars and then pushing them up the ramp for an Evil Kenevil jump.

Talk about crazy cars, check these out: http://www.pinewoodpro.com/pinewood-derby-car-pictures.htm”

“where are the parents of the two teens, and what are they doing about it? if nothing, shame on them. The law can't intervene in every fight between kids, but parents sure should. As far as what crime was committed, sounds like theft to me. They should at least spend a week in juvie.”

“I have a MSR Whisperlite stove and fuel bottle that I would like to donate to a scout troop that needs gear. We used this stove on our Philmont trek three years ago and I haven't touched it since. The stove is great for group cooking. Let me know if you are interested.

I also have some Philmont maps if you are interested.”

“We are applying to go to Philmont, but likely won't get in till 2010, or even 2011. If no one needs the maps earlier than that, we'd love them!”

“Someone already requested the stove and maps. sorry”

“No problemo. Our trip is years away.”

“We were very surprised we got our Philmont trek when we did. We decided to put in for it, thinking it would take us a few years before we were selected. We were very surprised to get one the first year we put in for it. I think we would have probably been better off if we had waited a few years.”

“those that know my history as a scouter know that i gave up boy scouts and took over as chairman of a cub scout pack. talk about fun! the little buggers are a lot more fun and this has been a much more rewarding experience. well tonight was our first (mine -and- theirs) pinewood derby. this was an array of sanded wood blocks sanded, painted (with trempra, spray paint, liquid paper, etc) and run down the track. we had ribbons for all, 3 trophies for the race winners and 3 for best appearance.

they had a blast and i am proud to say that every single car looked like something a cub scout built on their own. also, the parents all had a great time -and- we did the whole thing in under 2 hours including a little award ceremony to hand out tiger cub beads and bobcat badges. the minute we did "signs up" the little dudes were so well behaved it was almost scary.

our volunteers (parents) that helped run the race all played their role as judges, etc very well and one guy seemed really stoked at the end saying how much fun his job was.

last month was "movie night" (a bit of a fiasco) but next month is bowling and then the month after that a trip to the zoo.

i think what makes this easier is that the boys WANT to be led and be part of something. the challenge i had with boy scouts was getting a group of relatively unenthusiastic young men to lead rather than be led. yes, i know, i was told "you have to set an example" but in this case this was nothing more than an excuse to do things for them when you were supposed to be teaching them how to do things for themselves as a self-led group.

i am looking forward to the first ceremony when we send our first group of young weblos over to boy scouts... only two this year but a monster group the next.

my son, a bear cub scout got 1st for appearance and 2nd for the race. he ran up into his closet at the last minute and broke off all sorts of chrome bits from his toy cars and motorcycles and glued them onto the car's body. atta boy! his was the only one with chrome and he learned what any young man with a love for cars understands... chrome rulez!”

“Sounds like fun!

Almost through my first year as a Girl Scout leader. My co has not taken any of mandatory classes yet, and won't be able to register for next year if she doesn't get it done soon.
I've worked my tush off with these little girls and every moment has been rewarding and fun with them. We go "camping" in May. We're starting off with a lodge, as most of the girls are six and some haven't been away from home ever. They think they're camping though, and if they stick with it long enough I'll make sure they get to go for real, as long as that's what the troop wants to do.”

“Cool, I'm glad you found a niche that satisfies you. Seeing that your biggest issue in BS was the poor attitudes of the Scouts I'd be willing to bet that when your enthusiastic cubs become scouts you will have a far more rewarding BS experience. That is if your previous run hasn't soured you (and understandably so) on giving it another go.”

“I got the 15% Scout discount at Beyond Outside!

I dropped in today to pickup my son Stephen because I knew he was as sick as a dog. I asked for Greg, but he had quit, so I started talking to Beau about it, and he just hopped right on board.

WAHOOOOOO!


www.beyondoutside.com

if you guys want to shop there, you'll have to have some kind of proof, your Scout ID should work, you can probably scan and send it email. Mention Beau, my name- Pamela Kelly and the Scout Discount.”

“Cool.
Sometimes all it takes is getting in front of the right person.”

“i'm glad at least one person noticed the Scout discount that i got going at this outdoor store! you have fun with that HPM!”

“they've got two good go-lite shirts on sale. and the marmot gravity jacket”