TT Scouter support network

“Honestly I can't think of any gear I need.
But it's good to have options.”

“Do any scouters have something like an itinerary for a scout camp they have attented. Like a day by day, hour by hour schedule, so we can make our own one week camp and do some of those things? We would pick and choose the items to do from established camps. If you don;t have a schedule, what were some of the best things your kids did in a summer camp? Do they typically have classes to teach the younger ones the skills for advancement up to first class?”

“we facilitated the boys choosing of badges beforehand, (to move them through rank). this is where having a dozen ASM's at a meeting comes in handy. the badge class schedule is set up by the camp. in fact, most of the schedule is set up by the camp.

if they had hikes set up, we attended, we've also done our own. more stuff for rank. we've done stargazing stuff and night hikes. we always ask for a service project.

we set up in camp our own lashing class, our own knife and ax yard, and our own knots and lashings where they built the entrance gate to our troop site.

but most of the boys we took on a New Scout Camp out in February where we taught these things already along with fire building, stoves, cooking, compass use, simple first aid, flag ceremony, etc. but you use the boys who learned it then to teach the boys who didn't make it to that camp out.”

“One thing we did that I think worked out was to only have merit badge classes in the morning. While there were a few smaller merit badges that held class in the afternoon (basketry, etc), each afternoon had a special activity (knife/ax throwing, knife making, shotgun shooting, geocaching, etc). Additionally, many of the program sites were open for people to work on requirements individually (archery, leatherwork, horsemanship, etc).

There were also a couple of "exchange campfires" during the week, where two patrols were paired up to do a combined campfire in one of the patrols' campsites. Each patrol brought with them a token to exchange (hence the name). One patrol brought little leather trinkets they had made for everyone, while others just exchanged candy bars.

As far as Trail to First Class, my personal opinion is to remember to let the younger guys have fun. Some of the requirements to First Class can be kinda boring, so try not to let the entire camp be all about getting First Class. I think that goes for everyone, but especially for the younger boys. You want their first summer camp to be memorable.”

“Depending how many boys you have going, divide them up into patrols and have each patrol assign themselves duties and plan a menu for the week.

Besides the Tenderfoot - First class things, look at the camping, hiking, orienteering, and cooking merit badge books. There is a lot of things they will be doing from those books anyway so you might as well get them started on the Merit Badges.

'fool”

“I'll send you one or two that I have
last edited: 4/10/08 10:42:41 AM”

“wanderingfool brings up a good point. I'm sure it goes without saying that the boys should do as much of the meal planning, etc in their patrols. Also, frequent campsite inspections are very important. Last thing you need are sick kids 3 days into your camp.”

“Boy Scouts File Federal Lawsuit Over Dispute with City of Philadelphia

http://www.kyw1060.com/pages/2257393.php?contentType=4&contentId=2112907

**************

About time. Go Scouts!!!!”

“For those who have backpacked with scouts, how do you delegate and organize the food selection and packing? We are going on a backpack, and actually we have so many scouts that we are taking 3 different routes, with 9-11 scouts on each route, plus adults.

I was thinking of presenting about 10 possible dinner menus, letting each patrol select 2, then have them buy the ingredients and pack them at a meeting. One baggie for one meal, per patrol.

For lunches, I was thinking one lunch baggie per scout, for the 3 day hike, with no choices, just:

beef jerky
bagel chips
philly cream cheese
candy bar
2 quarts per day of koolaid
dried fruit
mixed nuts

For breakfast, having oatmeal with brown sugar and raisins, and tang.
What have been successful cooking plans for your scout backpacking trips?”

“Your system sounds good to me.

Once we had some kids with backpacking experience we became a little more hands off in that we never set menus for the kids. Instead we had some of the experienced backpackers give a little presentation on what they liked to eat and how they liked to divide stuff up while backpacking. We showed them a few different ways/styles to do things and let them settle on their own preferred method. Then we worked with the guys to help them develop menus that made sense for the activity and took them shopping for the food.

Taking kids shopping always took the majority of a meeting. Packing the ingredients in the same night might be tight on time but hey, you may have more focused kids than I did. LOL!
~edit~ Actually shopping probably won't be a big time killer for you if the menus are set. A fair amount of shopping time for me was spent acting as an adviser to the kids. ~edit~

We used to break things down to a buddy system on backpacking trips. Each patrol was further divided into buddies. The patrols were responsible for their own food. Sometimes the patrol would set a menu and do the shopping and divide all the necessaries among the buddies in the patrol and sometimes food was left to the buddy pair to do as they will.

However they split things up it usually ended up that each kid carried a meal for the size group (full patrol or buddy pair) that they decided to work with for the trip.
last edited: 6/20/08 10:46:42 AM”

“At Philmont they use the buddy meal method (kinda) where each meal is in a plastic bag that serves two.

When I take the older boys on a trek I ask that they bag a full days meals seperately - and they are typically responsible for their own individual food. We make sure thay all have food when we shake them down - but we give them a lot a latitude with menu selections.

The "day of meal per bag" thing helps if you need to cache food on long trips that are in-out.

Your plan sounds like a winner - but I would put a little variation in the breakfast & lunch plan so they can mix/match/trade. And some kids hate oatmeal.”

“some kids hate everything. We had some refuse to eat scrambled eggs, and hamburgers for dinner.”

“We had a few kids like that before. They live on soda and junk food. Take that away, and they rebel, but hunger wins them over eventually. That, or passing out. ;P

This is where letting kids (if they're old/ competent enough) set their own menus for trips helps.”

“The patrol figures out what they will eat and if a kid doesn't want it he'd better learn how to negotiate quick.

I've know a few troops that routinely pack PB&J for the kids who hate everything. Personally if the kids are setting menus I look on that as enabling anti-social behavior. Now if the kid has an allergy or a medical issue then that's different. But it never really was much of an issue for us though.
last edited: 6/24/08 3:36:43 PM”

“I'm thinking to see if a scout from each patrol wants to select 2 dinners and 2 breakfasts from a list of meals selected from Prosecutor's wonderful cookbook, then buy them, then pack them. That plus cooking the food will take him a long way toward getting the cooking merit badge.

For those patrols where no scout wants to plan the food, I'll just get them freeze dried one serving meals, plus oatmeal for breakfast, and a trail lunch. Its only a 3 day hike, so it should be easy to pack the food for.”

“We have 26 scouts going, and 15 adults, for 41 backpackers. We will split into 3 groups, and hike 3 different routes. All lunches will be the same, a trail lunch.

Three scouts want to plan food for their patrol, the other patrols are getting freeze dried for dinner, oatmeal for breakfast. The adults will get pasta dishes from Prosecutor's cookbook.

We will be in a car camping situation the 4 days before the backpack, so things have to be very shelf stable. I'll make a run to the store for bagels the night before the backpack, and maybe eggs.

Each group will have some experienced adults, but three backpacks going on simultaneously will be a challenge. Many of the scouts going are our 11 year olds, some 12, a lot of 13-15 year olds. We have 4 Mom's going, and for some it will be their first backpack. We should do fine if the weather holds.”

“Impressive - this is gonna be quite the outing!”

“In planning the food for 11 patrols (cook groups), I made a spreadsheet where you enter which recipe each patrol has selected and it calculates the shopping list, in terms of ounces needed, packages needed, envelopes needed, or items needed. It is based on 4 persons per cook group, but could be modified for a different number of people. The recipes it calculates for are

eggs and bacon breakfast
bagels/Canadian bacon/cheese breakfast
bagels/cream cheese breakfast
milk and cereal breaffast
mac and cheese dinner
salmon pasta dinner
spaghetti
pesto pasta
apple cobbler
smores


Other menu items could be added pretty
easily.

If this would benefit some scouter or trip planner, I can send it to you.”

“I'd like to see it if you don't mind”

“Pesto pasta for scouts? Hmmm.”

“I'd like to have a copy of that - that's cool.

41 backpackers is awesome. I'd say your master plan is working.”

“garfum, tell me your email address and I'll send it.”

“DIY summer camp over, no fatalities.

We car camped in a site by a mountain stream, and a few miles from a big lake (Payette)in Idaho. We did merit badge classes, canoeing, a bike ride around the lake, and ate pretty good.

Then we went on a 3 day backpack. We had about 25 scouts and 13 adults, so we divided into 3 groups, and did 3 different backpack routes. Two of the groups did the full 15 mile routes I mapped out, and one decided to shorten their route.

Our route was tough, and the trail on the map was hard to follow, and we did some cross country hiking through rough terrain. We got to camp at 8PM on the first two nights, dog tired. We caught fish, make snow cones on a mountain pass, saw incredible flowers. The group I was with came together as a unit, and sang on the trail, and just had a wonderful experience. Ours was the hardest route, with a 2200 elevation gain the first day.

All the groups got back to camp on Friday, and seemed to be pretty upbeat and energized. The older scouts thought the hike was too hard, and they had griped a lot on their hike. These are boys who were not exposed to backpacking as young scouts, and now they prefer car camping.

Anyway we are done, and it went pretty well I think. 38 people on 3 simultaneous backpacks! That is a first for me.”

“Here is a link to our troop website,

http://boisetroop100.wordpress.com/

where there are pics of our recent backpack in the McCall mountains of Idaho, plus other recent trips.”

“Thanks, idaho bob. That's a nice site. Those flower pictures are beautiful. And the snow table looks great!
last edited: 7/24/08 6:02:58 AM”

“I going to toot my own horn...just was awarded the Silver Beaver by Sam Houston Area Council”

“Right on. Is that anything like receiving a shaved beaver?”

“Congrats ChuckD!!!!!!!!!!!!”

“cub scout pack meeting tonight. looks like once again i get to be "cubmaster" and committee chair. lol! i only signed up to be the chair. not a lot of parents that can or will volunteer. we had a great time. practiced the flag ceremony, talked about the weblos camping trip last weekend, planned the pinewood derby, then played dodgeball with the remaining time. yes, i play too... well sort of. i switch sides to the losing team and get people back "in" by hitting the backboard (it's technically not dodgeball... we call it "bombardment"). good times, but rather disorganized. then again, i know the guys left having had a great time. i tell you. every now and then when it seems like too much you have a night like tonight and you get drug back into the business. sigh.
last edited: 10/20/08 6:21:16 PM”

“I tried to read that but my attention wandered and focused on the word drug.”

“yer a sik little munkey!”

“We had a good backpack last weekend, a 5 mile hike to a mountain lake near McCall Idaho. We had 13 scouts, and 7 adults. It got down to 26 degrees, and a few were cold, but not terribly. About 9 of the scouts were 11 year olds, and underequiped and inexperienced, but still mouthy and know-it-all. We hiked around the lake to a bomber that had crashed during WWII. Nice fall weather and colors. All in all a good to great trip.”

“2 weeks until the Alabama Encampment. 12k campers expected. I'm anxious to see what my Cub thinks about it.”

“pictures of our late October hike are here: http://boisetroop100.wordpress.com/

One dissappointment was in the two oldest scouts on the trip. They dropped their freezed dried food containers on the ground after eating, and left them there until we packed up to leave. Our older scouts are not very inspirational to the younger ones.”

“Idaho, sounds like a great trip.I would love to be able to take our boys on that kind of trip but it seems the parents fear for their childrens lives LOL I think they need to get out there and feel what a real backpacking trip is like, but I guess the parents are just not ready. Maybe in a few years :(”

“Our troop was basically a car camping troop, and still has those tendencies. I have been leading a ragtag revolution against the evil emperor, wait a minute, that was in a galaxy far far away.

In 2007 I led a lot of backpacking trips, and this year we got 9 out of 11 new scouts on a backpack, so one more year and I hope our troop is solidly on the backpacking route. Where do you live? In Idaho, we have lots of good places to go.

Our big event for 2008 was getting all of our scouts and lots of parents to go on a backpack as part of summer camp. We did 3 different routes simultaneously, with about 42 people participating.
last edited: 10/30/08 3:29:27 PM”

“I am wondering what to do with what I see as a problem from one scout or two scouts. A kid about 14 or 15, who was elected senior patrol leader because of his lively wit and habit of cutting up, went on our last backpack. At the car, and on the trail, we had a little talk about leave no trace. I said that our trash should not even hit the ground, even a tiny piece of paper, an M and M, and any uneaten food. If you can't eat it, carry it out.

We had no trash problem on the trail, and got to camp and made dinner in small groups. The two senior scouts, each about 14-15, one the venture senior patrol leader and one the scout senior patrol leader, ate with a new scout. The group on this backpack consisted mostly of new scouts, 11 year olds. The two older scouts and their 11 year old cooking partner cooked in an area away from other groups. They had freeze dried food, and when done dropped their food packages on the ground in their cooking area. We adults decided to not order them to go pick it up, but just see if they left it there.

They left the trash there all evening, all night, and most of the next morning. As we were packing up, the Venture leader came up to their cook area and picked up the trash. When we did a sweep through the area for trash before leaving, we found a half eaten roll stuffed under a log where they were, and some freeze dried food on the ground. about two tablespoons worth.

I am thinking I should have a sit down talk with the senior patrol leader and maybe the Venture SPL and tell him that kind of behavior is not a good example to the younger scouts, is disrespectful of the trip leaders, is disrespectful to the scout troop, is disrespectful of the conservation oath he recites each week. I am thinking of telling him that I would like him to come on another backpack (he doesn't go on many) and do a lot better in that regard, but if he didn't feel like improving to not come on any backpacks that I lead in the future.

Is that coming down on him too hard? Is there a better way to put it? Have others experienced the same thing, and what did you do?”

“Sounds like a plan to me..

For Major Infractions we 'suspend' the scout from camping trips for a couple months and then put them on probation. For several scouts we have gone so far as to mandate that a parent be on any scouting trips. Granted these are for actions a bitmore severe than you are talking about.

I 'scolded' by son this past weekend for not thoroughly cleaning out his drinking cup/bowl before he went to sleep...

'32oz”

“Nope, not too hard at all. You confront the behavior, explain why it will not be tolerated and give the boy a chance to adjust his behavior.

I also stress that it is dangerous (to the campers and the wildlife) to have a dirty camp.”

“Canoe trailers: Do your troops have canoe hauling trailers? Did someone locally build them? We are thinking about getting a flatbed utility trailer - they make them for snow machines - then have a 6 or 8 canoe rack built on it.

We are thinking if we get the rack, quite a few of our parents have old canoes, and we'll find used ones if we are looking for deals on Craigs list. There a lot of places to go canoeing around Idaho, with one goal to be a long trip in the Boundary Waters.

Some canoe trips also might inspire me to build the wood strip canoe I've been thinking of for years.”

“Nope, we rented canoes when we needed them.”

“our troop rents them from the outfitters or once in a while we borrow them from the council.

definitely DO BWCA. it's awesome and i can't wait to go back. we use the kevlar ones that outfitter carries up there in Ely. they are well worth the $.”

“Our troop has an older canoe trailer that was for 8 but I cut it down to a 6 place. An 8 hauler really drags in the wind with it's height, and you always can put 1 or 2 on the vehicle. Our troop usually goes to the BWCA every year. It is a great place for the scouts. We have all the canoe equipment so our troop can usually do a 6-7 day BWCA trip for about $100/person. A converted utility trailer works the best because you can haul the packs in the trailer bed to add some low weight to the trailer and not overcrowd the vehicle.”

“i got asked to sign off on a merit badge for a young man... personal fitness. i am a merit badge counselor for this. anyway, i was dreading another "sign off on this" merit badge, which i totally refuse to do. i was dreading the conversation where i would explain that yes, i did in fact expect that they do everything in the book and that no i wouldn't sign off on a stack of paper without ever working with the scout. there are plenty of other people that will sign off on a badge like this and if that's all they want i am not preventing anyone from getting the patch... just get it from them.

...well i have no shortage of interested scouts. surprise, surprise... when you push people do do the work they actually do it.

well i arranged to meet the scout at his next troop meeting. the story got deeper... it was his last badge before he earned eagle. his birthday was coming up. he was going to be out of scouts. you know the story.

i was polite and friendly and asked him where he was. he produced a lot of material and we worked through the content. i have to say i was really impressed. i asked him a lot of tough questions and he answered them all. i noted the dates on documents he had (physicals, letters from his dentist) were all dated almost a year ago supporting his claim that he had been working on the badge for a while but had not gotten the requirements signed off. i probably spent twice the normal amount of time i would spend at a single merit badge session (and there would be a few of these) and in the end i decided that this guys only shortcoming was not seeking the resource to checkpoint his progress... but i had to admire his independence.

NORMALLY i would have bounced the guy and made him do 3-4 sessions plus re-do the log, but he not only clearly had done everything -but- honestly he did a better job than any scout i have coached. i would have set up a few more meetings and gotten this done before his birthday but honestly i couldn't think of what else i would make him do.

so i approved. it was not what i expected. scouts constantly surprise me when i get discouraged and lose faith in the program.”

“Yeah the Scout is supposed to get a counselor lined up BEFORE he starts working on a badge. By that one point alone you would have been within your rights to refuse.

But really the only thing you have to do as a MB counselor is be satisfied that the Scout completed the requirements. Sound like he did the work and proved it. Good on you for hearing him out.”

“Yogi that was cool. I noticed a lot of Scouts get to Life and kinda ride it out. We always push our scouts to get 1. Eagle Project out of the way, 2. Personal Finance done, 3. Family Life DONE and 4. Physical Fitness DONE with in a few months of getting Life.
The tough part is when you get Parents who want to get "involved" because Junior is not trying.

Part of the program is teaching them to be self starting and self sufficient.”

“The tough part is when you get Parents who want to get "involved" because Junior is not trying.

i have the same issue with pushy scouters..

We always push our scouts to get


but you are right with this statement:
Part of the program is teaching them to be self starting and self sufficient.”

anything beyond this is not really them earning the rank.”