TT Scouter support network

“I've gathered up a fair amount of decent beginner gear at yard sales, especially those from the affluent subdivisions. I picked up a Kelty Trekker pack, Kelty Clear Creek 20 sleeping bag, PUR Hiker, MSR Whisperlite for $50. Parents with more money than sense outfitted their son for his first BP trip spent several hundred $$, kid hated backpacking.


I've picked up 8 or 10 sets of gear this way, something to keep in mind.”

“I'm afraid my wife would kill if I started building up a supply of old gear. I'll scope out the troop my son joins in 1.5 years, and see what they have. For the troop I'm going to speak to, that is a great suggestion. They might already have that taken care of.”

“I didn't read through most of it...but I have one small uniform, maybe a larger one to give away. hmm... [feeling stupid] I don't know what size, and I don't know where my messy kids have them right now.

email me [in case i forget to check this link] if you need them. my kids are 12 and 15 years old [short and skinny]”

“The trick for me is not doing things for them. Scouting isn't about teaching lessons in camping, it's about developing leadership skills and confidince. We sat down and had them brainstorm what they would bring on a BP trip. Then we sorted the stuff in to categories. Then we made a generic "gear list" and each week they came up with ways to fill in items on the gear list. Some of the guys had silly ideas at first but it sort of became a contest as to who could do it lighter and cheaper. They are still pulling their gear together but in the end it's their job to figure it out and to seek help from an authority when they think they need it. If you do it for them they learn to follow, not to lead. Most young men are good at following these days.”

“Our troop provided us with tents -- Eureka Timberlines -- 2 kids per tent. Also provided stoves and water filters for kids to share. And this was a very financially-limited troop, as we were either really bad at fundraising, or just plain didn't care enough for it.

I had a Jansport external frame, that was picked up at the Sports Authority for a nominal price.

I had a generic blue closed-cell foam pad.

I had a rectangular down sleeping bag that I got for Christmas one year (which I still use to this very day, though it's nearing the end of its life-cycle -- if it already isn't past that...)

I had boots, and clothes from Wal-Mart (or actually, back then it was more like Bradlee's or Caldor -- WalMart has not made the big time yet)

Rain gear was a basic poncho picked up from Caldor.

No LED headlamp -- I used this old-skool thing you had to hold in your hand, called a flashlight.

But in the end, it worked out. After all, we didn't really do any hard-core FYAO-style trip, though I do remember one February backpack on the AT on Kittatinny Ridge where the overnight temp was about -10F. One of my coldest night out ever -- to this day.

After all, I'm still here...”

“I just took a long look at packs on ebay, and I think if you knew what size pack fitted you a person could get a decent pack, internal or external frame for less that $50 or $65. I'm talking Kelty, Gregory, or Lowe. Wow! Boots are cheap too, but of course you can't try them on.”

“My email address is shaver@dykaslaw.com, for any documents you scouters have. I'm thinking between walmart and ebay, a kid could get by fairly inexpensively, with pretty good gear.”

“UM...if you have OLD patches...especially Order of the Arrow type patches....I can let you know where to send them. I have people here who collect the stuff and I would just like to a couple of old patches to freak them for a while (LOL).”

“Off to Galena for the weekend with the Scouts. Any other TTers going to be there? Prolly not but if so look for the 457!”

“The troop badly needs new tents. It rained most of our last camp out and I was pretty much the only one that stayed dry which is ironic: I was sleeping under my catenary ridgeline silnylon tarp I use for backpacking.

I think we are in agreement it's time to retire most if not all of the old tents. The old tents were really never fit for the type of service they provided, monthly camping. They were more fit for a family that would go camping a few times a year. It's amazing that they have lasted so long.

We want to stick with two scouts per tent. I was hoping people could make suggestions for different tents but also offer their rationale for their choice. Also, any tips on procurement would be great. I know Campmor gives a discount to Scouts but perhaps there are better ways to do this. We would probably purchase about 10-15 tents.”

“http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39171047&memberId=12500226

these are the tents we got from campmor for our venture crew. we were able to get grant money through the city with money they had made from the sale at the police auction(property seized from drug arrests).”

“Alps Mountaineering has a Scout program where you get 45% off their eguipment. We are geting the Taurus Outfitter for our Troop. You have to regester your troop and then anyone in the troop can take advantage of the discount.
http://www.scoutdirect.com/propurchase.htm”

“Campmor, REI and most other outfitters will give you a discount for group purchases. All you have to do is call and arrange it.

Last time we bought tents we bought some eureka 2-man tents from campmor.

Stick with 2 man tents (much more verstile, enforces the buddy system and minimizes late night rowdyness) and a large tarp (1 per patrol) as a wet weather gathering place.”

“Jimmy where you at? Check with surrounding troops might be a break there for you. Additionally while I know you want the backpackable tents, for a few nights you can start with the 29.99 special at some general store. I have an Ozark something or other 9x9 that is actually kinda nice. Too heavy to pack with but it does work well in the rain.”

“I think our troop bought the Eureka tents because they were lower priced than most tents and they are rather durable. Your local council, or possibly the national council, may already have an arrangement with a distributor.”

“I resigned as Brownie troop leader for next year and am continuing on with my grandgirl as Adult Mentor/Juliette scout. The troop thing is one big PITA.”

“Jimmy when you look for a tent get one that has the best zipper made. That is what wears out, breaks on our tents. That was our decision to buy the Alps. I read many tent reviews and this stuck out as the best. Also there is a Scout forum it has some good coments on different tents.
http://www.scouter.com/forums/
We have not got the tents yet as we are still working on some fund raising, but the Alps is what we are getting in the next month or 2.”

“Jimmy my troop uses the Apex by Eureka. Usually 89 with the discount. Good luck.

Twig...by the time you get to BOY SCOUTS the leaders are just there for transport and to keep the kids from killing each other. It is youth led and works pretty well if you work it.”

“PITA???

Hey twiggy, please define.”

“HPM has a huge tarp made from two pieces of tyvex taped together. It shelters a large group of people.”

“Ah yes, the troop's "Tarp Mahal." That thing's amazing. My favorite photos of that thing are from a Cumberland Island trip a few years ago.”

“Pain In The Ass. :)

I've been through boy scouts XL.”

“Really twig? I love it. Hey half my time is spent watching the show on hikes. Then I work with some fantastic leaders. We have 7 or so trained leaders who are the OLD CORPS and then four or five up and coming...so we can share the load.”

“I was den mother for cubs (bears, wolves) and led Webelos, then participated in Boy Scouts. Growing up I went thru Brownies, Juniors and Cadets as a girl scout. Loved it.

Now I'm the leader for my grandgirl's Brownie troop. She and I already do most of the things girls join scouts for, often inviting her friends along who are also in the troop.

We have a set of twins from hell in the troop, and find we are limiting our troop activities based on their anticipated behavior. The girls sold ~$4k in cookies and the troop got $700. Since the cookies are nothing more than flavored chemicals, we aren't practicing what we preach. Speaking of, I swear I've seldom run in to so many rude people in my life...

As a Juliette, my grandgirl participates as a Brownie, earns badges, and can attend any scout function, but we don't have to have belong to a troop and go to meetings.

works for me.”

“Coleman offers a youth group discount on their web page.

Do a web search, we found Eureka Timberline 2 tents for $69.00 ea that way. bought 10 of them.”

“I've never heard of the "Juliette's". Is that like a venture crew for the younger scouts? If the child doesn't have to join a troop and pay dues, who pays for the merit badges earned and the costs associated with the functions that the Juliette attends? These are often funded by troop dues and fund raisers, as I am sure you know. I am just wondering how this works.”

“Twig...we all have those problems. My Troop kept getting terrorized about POPCORN sales. SO a couple of years ago I transferred some stock to the Church that hosts them....now it works better.

My Troop is an anomoly, we tend to get kids who will not work anywhere else and they come and THRIVE at our troop...wierd but it works. We frequently win at inner council events, our guys have fun and they move forward.”

“I finest group of young Scouting men I have ever been around is HPM's bunch.
Very impressive.”

“I bought Eureka APEX 2XT's for my Troop about 7-8 years ago, some of them ARE STIL in use! Considering what the boys can do to equip (especially the new ones you get every year!), I think that says just about everything you need to know about the reliability of these tents! ”

“I just wanted to thank everyone that posted for some great ideas. I am looking into most of them. It really helps.”

“OK, the stuff at Alps Mountaineering seems too good to be true. Can people that have their tents vouch for them? I may have to buy/test one before I will believe it.”

“I have no direct experience with Alps gear.

There have been arguements either way on the quality of Alps gear. Most people I know who own Alps tents seem to like them but don't consider them "A list" gear. For the price point they are a great value for Scouts with an active program.

I don't know anyone who likes their backpacks.”

“We looked at the Alps tents last year for our troop - got a sample to check out. Everyone liked the tent, but the durability looked questionable. We ended up spending more and buying Dana Design Nuk Tuks, a tipi style that is very durable and simple. I just looked for them online and they're discontinued - too bad. We wanted a tent that could sleep 2 - 4 scouts for monthly campout and still be big enough for 2 scouts at long term camp.”

“LOL...a few years ago we went on a hike, I was tarping...today a good number of the older boys tarp. They thought it was cool when I was cooking under the tarp in the rain.”

“I've found that as our guys get older and their comfort and skill level improves they tend to favor tarps more and more.

Our troop tents see very little action any more.”

“OH GOD....sorry HPM...I am REALLY SORRY but there is a REALLY BAD double entendere in that last statement.”

“Creek Dancer - Juliette's are girls who can't attend troop meetings for one reason or another. Actually, here's a link...

http://www.gskc.org/ForGirls/Juliettes/Juliette.html

there are a couple of pdf files that explain it.”

“I have taken the same approach. I am going to get a single tent and check it out. Durability is a primary consideration. I am looking for the 2-person tent approach but the other adult leader whats a 4-person tent approach for the same reasons as you mentioned, garfum.

I emailed the people at Alps and asked for some gear to evaluate/test. I may have to go out of pocket and purchase some of this stuff for this purpose. We'll see how accomodating they will be. They have a lot of good testimonials but being an avid backpacker it's not what other people think that will win me over but how the gear performs for me on the trail that will matter. I have been screwed by marketing people before.”

“Perhaps I should have said "use".”

“my last camp out i tarp camped and the guys were shocked that i was the only one that slept dry when they slept in the tents. a few were asking if they could try a tarp and i said we would make tarps and practice pitch them. we shall see, but it sounds like my guys are a long ways to go to get to where your guys are HPM. most of the scouts are pretty young in the troop and team I work with.”

“just reading past posts - what the heck does this mean?

My Troop kept getting terrorized about POPCORN sales. SO a couple of years ago I transferred some stock to the Church that hosts them....now it works better.
XL400236
1:24:01 PM
5/03/06

who terrorized them? why does transferring stock help?
%]

My troop went on a field trip Monday night, one most of the girls had really been looking forward to. We went to visit a no kill cat shelter and had made "happy socks" and kitty blankets for the kitties.
I do the "meet ya there" thing so we don't worry about transportation - most of the parents hang out anyway.

It backfired this time - the twins from hell's mom showed up with ALL FIVE of her children, which includes another set of twins. Not only is it against the rules, but she has no control over them - even when she's inclined to try. We cut the trip way short, and I apologized all over myself to the host.

I cancelled our last field trip and scaled back our last two meetings. Cancelled a couple of training days I had. I can't wait for this to be over.”

“Those kids are being abused (the twins).
Parents need to be parents, not friends.”

“My Troop kept getting terrorized about POPCORN sales. SO a couple of years ago I transferred some stock to the Church that hosts them....now it works better.
XL400236
1:24:01 PM
5/03/06

How does this work? I am very curious. The popcorn, wreath, flower sales, candy all drive me nuts.”

“I proposed a tent replacement program to the troop last night and it was unanimously adopted by the council. I worked hard to make it as well documented and professional as possible. I have to work with the Boy leadership to put the plan into motion at the next meeting. This is a huge load off of my mind and I was really encouraged at the support I got. I was going to put the plan into place for my Varsity Team if the Troop didn’t adopt it but now it looks like they will just adopt the plan for all the Scouts. They boys are going to be pumped and are going to have to do a lot of work to make it happen.”

“Cookie sales we get 65 cents per box we sell for $3.50. I can't think of any charity I'd donate to that more than 80% of my donation goes to admin. Oh, and "programs" haha..

Some leaders skip all the fund raising and just fund the troop themselves…however, the troop is supposed to be “girl driven” as in the girls raise their own funds and decide what they want to do. My girls (at ages 6 and 7) were taking dues and attendance on their own, delivering the canned goods we collected at each meeting, and once we had money from cookie sales we did budgeting. I was told later on that they were too young for that, but they loved it.
I had planned next year on not selling cookies and doing our own fund raising. I hate not doing the troop because I see value in the troop concept...”

“Okay Twig let see ...our District Executive (rep from Council) had been hounding the Scoutmaster to sell more popcorn. Unlike the Girl Scouts who REALLY ADVERTISE! Boy Scouts is still learning that.
So to make sure the troop had enough money I transferred some stock (this is a financial term for shares in a corporation held by an individual) to the church where the troop meets. See if you transfer a stock and the charitable institution (501C3) sells it they get ALL the money and you pay NO zip Zero NADA in captial gains taxes.
My troop is Boy Run...and yes we have had the troublesome kids....if parents (who are not trained) show up with Tag-a-longs. We simply explain Troop Policy, and they may leave or find something else to do.
I have one parent who is IMHO Psychotic, the guy does stuff that has even the 11 year olds scratching their heads. We have more or less asked him to drop off the kids and leave. His boys (twins) were hellians when they came to us (11 yrs). Now one is the Senior Patrol Leader.

Stove, I agree about Parents being parents...I am dealing with that in my house at this moment. YOU cannot be good buddy to a kid when they start testing the boundries.”

“.65 out of $3.50 seems low, but then again that $3.50 includes the cost to make and distribute the cookies... what, .50 a box? ;)

...but say "hogwash" to the people that say the girls are too young. These are the same people that spend their time focused on telling girls what they can't and shouldn't do... telling them they are "clever" rather than "smart", etc. You are never too young to do things on your own so long as the program provides for a safe environment where the price for failure is a lesson in success.”

“My son's troop doesn't sell popcorn to raise money for the troop. If the scout wants to sell popcorn, he may. The profit from his sales goes directly into his kitty with the troop and he may use the money to help fund things like summer camp. Honestly, I think the popcorn products are poor.

We have one and only one troop fundraiser - a huge butt-pickin' (pork butt) to make BBQ. Our troop has been doing this for more than a decade and the community has come to love the stuff.”

“I get the stock thing (funding the troop yourself) it was bing terrorized by the popcorn thing - I get that now, LOL...

We got the same crap about magazine sales when we said we weren't doing that.”

“I can see the reasoning behind the boys doing things that fund the troop and provide the things it needs. I just don't see why it has to be from these (what I consider) parasitic fundraising companies that use the Boy Scouts as their cheap sales force. Same thing goes for the school fundraising stuff, etc, etc. I told my wife, "I get better return on investment if I just write the Troop a check than if I buy that damn popcorn."”