TT Scouter support network

“Many of us here volunteer our time with youth groups. Many of us here from time to time need advice and maybe a helping hand. Especially those of us who are trying to bring backpacking into the programs we are part of.

I propose that we develop a network of TT scouters (Boy Scout, Girl Scout, Campfire, it doesn't matter) to help each other out and, more importantly, to get kids out on the trails. Help each other how? Well, that's up to you. We can just trade ideas or we can get our hands dirty.

Case in point. Pitts is trying to develop a high adventure program for some Boy Scouts but is have a rough time getting adults lined up. Any TT Scouters in his area willing to spend a weekend hiking with Pitts and his Scouts so the kids can go backpacking?

To get the ball rolling lets list who is interested. Tell us your area of the country, what program you are involved with maybe some credentails and what YOU can do to help someone else.



Humanpackmule
North East Florida- Jacksonville

BSA- retired Scoutmaster, Sit on the North Florida council high adventure committee, currently the Assistant Scoutmaster of High Adventure for www.troop623.com

I can help folks with info on North Florida, South Georgia and the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Any Scout Troops driving to Seabase call me and maybe we can put you up for the night.”

“pitts
Western Suburbs of Chicago

I was a Boy Scout as a kid but have only become active with the Scouts since my oldest entered Cub Scouts. My daughter is in Girl Scouts (wife runs that troop) and my youngest is a Tiger.

I am a merit badge consuler for Nuclear Science. I am an Assistant Scoutmaster in my sons troop. I have been asked to start up and coach a Venture Crew by the troop my son is in.

I fear I may be getting in over my head!

I don't know what I can do for others yet, but I am sure willing to try.
last edited: 10/11/05 1:47:23 PM”

“Relax Pitts.
That gasping for air sensation?
Yeah that's normal. lol!”

“ChuckD
Houston TX

BSA, retired Scoutmaster, District Training Team, currently Chartered Organization Rep for http://www.bsatroop61.us/

I can help out on SE Texas, NASA and Big Bend. Courses at Philmont Training Center in teaching Outdoor Skills and Planning High Adventure Treks. Woodbadge SR 74, Bobwhite”

“Limpy,
Scoutmaster (scary, huh?)
MB counselor for Hiking, BPing, Fishing, Fly fishing.

BTW, Backpacking MB pamphlet should be required reading for everyone! (IMHO)”

“bitpusher

North Alabama

I'm an Assistant Den Leader in my son's Cub Scout Wolf Den. I also served in the same capacity last year when he was a Tiger Cub. I was both a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout, but not very good at either. Hopefully I am being a better leader than I was a Scout.

I can help with info on the Sipsey WA, and with some of the areas in S. Tennessee like Savage Gulf and Fiery Gizzard.”

“"Outamatches"
Southeast Iowa. Asst Scoutmaster and past Den leader. MB approved councelor for Hiking, Camping, Fishing, Flyfishing,and Photography”

“Garfum
Central Wyoming

Asst Scoutmaster for Troop 167 and Venture Crew Advisor for Crew 167. Cubmaster for Pack 94. My older son is an Eagle Scout, my younger son is a Bear, my wife is a Den Leader.

Our Venture crew has a seperate charter but shares a committee with the Troop. The crew functions as something of a leadership patrol, responsible for teaching Scout skills to the first class track scouts. Crew membership is open to anyone that meets the minumum age/grade requirements, but Troop members must be life rank(for skills and to avoid robbing regular patrols of leadership)and maintain dual membership while they're under 18.”

“garfum: what does "dual membership" mean?”

“I am a registered leader for a Boy Scout troop in Richmond, Virginia and a Philmont Crew advisor for Heart of Virginia Council. I can help out folks in central Virginia. I am very familiar with Shenandoah National Park and many other areas nearby.”

“I'm not sure if that's the right term, but scouts stay as members of the troop, fill out a venture application and pay $1 and are also members of the Venture crew.

When we go out with the troop, we're covered under the troop tour permit. When we do crew-only activities(high adventure) we pull our own tour permits.”

“It's the right term.

In short, kids who are members of two (or more) BSA units are dual enrolled/registered/members.

For example I had a boy who was triple registered. He was a member of our Troop, a law enforcement Explorer Post and a Venture crew across town. Busy kid.”

“OK, first question. I've got a boy in my den who is new to Cub Scouting. He is also on two soccer teams, so he hasn't been able to come to a meeting yet this year. I talked to his mom and they're unlikely to be coming to meetings before soccer is over. She doesn't even have his Wolf book yet.

How do I get her to realize the importance of coming to meetings? Both me and my Den Leader have talked to her about this.”

“Treebeard, Scoutmaster, Troop 14, Brooklyn, New York...

The Northeast is my beat! Any where else? Fuhgeddhabouddit! j/k”

“That's been pretty common with several scouts, BP. It's also a tough situation. There's no realistic place for such a high degree of absenteeism in scouting. It just can't be done. I've had to put it bluntly before and request that they make a choice. Unfortunately, I've lost a few that way. But, what good is it if the kid is never there.


Unless, of course, you need the dues! j/k
Gee, I'm cracking myself up today!”

“Just to clarify one thing, BP. I'm perhaps talking of longer term absenteeism than you may be. How long is this soccer season and how long are you willing to put up with it? Is it worth it in the big picture to let it go? I found that kids that spread themselves that thin, often have other things going on in different parts of the year that also interfere with attending. Is that the case here?
last edited: 10/11/05 3:21:27 PM”

“It's part of a general dysfunction of my den...My Den Leader has been pretty much AWOL for good reasons, but he didn't ask me to take temporary command until about a month into the school year. Other kids (including mine) have had soccer too, but I've been able to get at least a few of them to meetings. We did have 100% participation of our boys in the summer daycamp, which was good.

I guess I'm willing to put up with it, as long as she doesn't complain about him not getting his Wolf badge, lol...I don't exactly know how long his soccer season will last. She said something about not being able to come to meetings until Spring? I dunno if his soccer lasts that long, or if she's not aware that we meet at least three times a month, all school year long.

So I guess I'm willing to put up with it if his season ends here pretty soon. But if it doesn't he'll be so far behind it won't matter.”

“If it goes until spring, then you're in the same boat as I was with some of my boys. To me, there's a point of futility here. What's the kid REALLY getting out of missing all the meetings between now and say, March? Nothing. So, I spelled that out for the parent and sent the ball into their court. There has to be some sort of middle ground. I know it's hard, but you have to try an find it!”

“Gotta go! Time to go get strip searched on the ferry! Who knows, I could be hiding an incendiary device up the wazoo!”

“That's hard to say BP.
In Cubs the kids usually advance as a group. In Boy Scouts (at least with us) they advance at their own pace.

So if a Cub falls behind his peers and can't catch up, an accurate analogy would be as if he failed a grade in school and all his buddies went on to the next grade.

Another tack for Boy Scouts (it doesn't hold up for Cubs) is that just like in sports Boys Scouts are a team. Only difference is that we call it a patrol. When team members don't show it's hard to win a game. When members of a patrol don't show up its hard to get anything done.

In Boy Scouts I have a few guys who do sports. Rather than make them choose between activities (please keep in mind that kids only have limited time frame in their life to be on a sports team or earn Eagle for that matter) I simply ask that that not take on a leadership position until they can dedicate the time to do it right.
last edited: 10/11/05 3:33:48 PM”

“If I knew for certain that his soccer was over later this month, that would be fine with me. A little bit of extra work and he could get caught up. But no meetings until spring?

This is his first year and I hate to tell his mom, look, unless he comes to meetings and works on advancement, forget it. That just gives Scouting a bad rep.”

“Jackstraw
Southern Maryland also part of the Greater Washington D.C. area

Life scout
Asst. Scoutmaster troop144 National Capitol Area Council.

I've been a scouter with three boys in scouting about seven years.

I am the high adventure coordinator for the troop.”

“True, HPM. Of course, if he doesn't get his Wolf Badge, that doesn't mean he can't get his Bear next year.

Sometimes I feel like the program in general is a little tunnel-visioned on advancement. The real point of Scouting is to build character. Of course a lot of what going into advancement is character-building.”

“Whoa, they don't even have the book yet?

I'm guessing the night before the Blue and Gold the parents will hand you a signed requirements page where every slot has a parent signature, the same date and obviously done with the same pen. I'd explain to the parents that if that situation arises you won't accept the signatures.

Sometimes it's best to just concentrate on the kids that show up and not worry too much about the kids who don't.”

“We'll see what happens. Because he hasn't been to a meeting yet, I haven't even met the parents, I've just talked to the mom. I really don't think they will do that, but ya never know.”

“Our Scoutmaster came up with a point system that seams to work. We were having a lot of kids show up for only the fun trips. The rest of the time they never came to the meetings. He said for every meeting you attend you get a point. In order to go to a camp out or on a trip you have to have so many points. There are excuses for good attendence but there was a good reason he couldn't be there. Like sick, death in family etc.”

“garfum:

The next question I have is this:

Troop members must be life rank(for skills and to avoid robbing regular patrols of leadership)and maintain dual membership while they're under 18

I know this is just your rule but it brings up another question I have about this Venture Crew I have been asked to start up. I was given a list of local troops I could "draft" from. Are those scoutmasters going to see that as "poaching" (for lack of a better word)? How do I approach these troops or more to the point should I?”

“The BSA already has a scouting network in place. Use it and you will be safe. Follow the guidelines and use common sense approach with the young men.”

“Outa, sounds like a good system but I don't think our Committee would go for it, unless I was really having a problem getting boys to come to meetings. With the exception of this one kid, low attendance at meetings (actually, not having meetings at all) has been the Den Leader's problem, not the kids' problem.”

“Pitts,

I'm not sure about the term "drafting". I know in this district it would be considered poaching if it robbed a troop of leadership. The older kids usually need high adventure to stick around. A troop needs older kids to maintain the leadership progression.
We've had kids from other troops act interested in our crew. The crew in their troop is not very active, and we are. None have actually jumped ship though.”

“Had a good meeting tonight. Turns out there are now 5 guys that will want to join. I have to set up the first meeting. Also, the Scoutmaster is going to introduce me to other Scoutmasters that he knows would be thrilled to have a Varsity Team in the area. Apparently there isn't an active one at present. I am really excited. Good news.”

“Roam Around, Eagle and former SM, ASM, Committe Member... etc, etc.

I'm in CO and can help anyone trying to plan a high adventure trip in this area, or any local troops looking for ideas.

Qualified to be a merit badge counsellor in any of the Business related areas or in any of the high adventure/outdoor type areas.”

“In my experience as a SM I had boys that would get bogged down in band or sports and couldn't come to several meetings for short period of time, I always told them it was ok and to keep in touch with their patrol leader or the SPL and to just show up at meetings when the band/season was over and to any along the way that they could. Like HPM said, they shouldn't have leadership roles when they can't attend.

Cubs are a little diff as so much happens at the meetings and only at the meetings.”

“Whew. Where to start.

1. Tiger Den Coach
2. Wolf Den, Webelos Den et al
3. Asst. CubMaster
3. Scoutmaster
4. Venturing Crew Leader

Also Certified / Registered Girl Scout Leader. Please don't laugh, it's important.

Also served as District Camping Committe Representative, numerous other positions at BSA at District level.

More importantly in many respects, I tried to get / stay trained / certified in ALL disciplines associated with the Scouting Program we were running,... I am Certified OKPIK, etc., etc., etc.

Merit Badges...I have done a LOT of these, you can only do so many at a time ( 5 or 6?) so I changed as the needs of my scouts changed, but have been a Wilderness Survival MB Counselor, Canoeing MB Counselor, Fishing MB Counselor, Backpacking MB counselor; Camping MB Counselor, Orienteering MB Counselor & a few others.

I don't mean to diminish ANY of the BSA certification programs, thay are all VERY important if you're going to be a leader of an active outdoors-oriented troop. I just can't remember them all and I'm not at home in my office where I have all my documentation.(safe swim defense, etc)”

“True about the Cubs, Roam, but there are a lot of parts of the achievements that can only be completed at home. I can't have the boys do a two-week log of their health habits just at meetings. I'm gonna put together a list of the stuff that they have to do at home and hand it out to the parents, and ask for updates at the meetings.”

“Southern California

Registered Scouter and Former Committee Chair (3 years). Life Scout, OA Brotherhood, Merit Badge Counselor. High Adventure training and organized trip to Philmont. Son is an Eagle Scout.

With respect to the missing meetings issue, our troop had a high level of tolerance for boys who played sports with the understanding that when the sports season was over they would fully participate in the meetings and troop activities. My son played football for four years and attended meetings when he could, but didn't get much advancement done and missed some campouts. He made Eagle by being consistent the rest of the time.”

“Central PA
"spikehiker"
past:
den leader
webelos leader
cubmaster
present:
Asst Scoutmaster
my last few years I have been "outdoors leader" helping to organize our hiking, camping, canoe type outings. Been to Philmont in 2004 and Northern Tier this past summer.
Happy to help out if I can.”

“man am I pissed...

this is a letter to the editor that I drafted after last nights Brownie meeting...and believe me, I'm extremely nice in this letter...

"I am the Leader of a Brownie Troop of five 6-7 year old girls. My hope for these girls is that with the help of Girl Scouting they will grow to become confident, generous young women who are respectful of themselves and others. To that end, we planned twice monthly meetings and reserved a meeting place that we felt met the needs of the Troop.

At our third meeting a man walked into our meeting room and asked how long we would be, informing us that his group – the Knights of Columbus – was having a meeting there at 6:30. Though we had booked the room through the proper channels (which was known to this man – who’s last name I learned from another person at the meeting, not from his polite introduction) after some discussion, I offered to move the girls into a separate area. Though the girls were well into their meeting activities, they picked up and we moved our table, chairs, and supplies into a much tinier space. We closed the door, drew the divider across the “window” and continued with our meeting.

Not long after, a different man came into the little room and asked how long we would be. We were asked to finish up early as we could not be there while the Knights were having a meeting. A girl who had left the room to use the bathroom returned, saying the men told her she couldn’t use the bathroom because she couldn’t be out there. Then we were told they could use the bathroom, but all the girls must go at that time. I escorted the girls to the bathroom, waited for them, then escorted them back to our room.

I’m so disappointed in the example these grown men set for five little girls; how disrespectful they were, and what a negative experience their first encounter with the Knights of Columbus was.

However, from lemons come lemonade - our lemonade comes as a glass full of examples of how NOT to treat people – drink up girls!"
last edited: 10/18/05 9:22:47 AM”

“Did someone screw up and schedule the same space for two different groups at the same time?

Here's the KOC website.

I'd send the same text to them, naming names and the charter number or however the individual chapters are specified.
last edited: 10/18/05 9:35:15 AM”

“I read "Aids to Scoutmastership" this last week. I now understand Scouting far, far better as a result. Every adult volunteer that becomes active with a troop should read this stuff. I think it's natural for one to try and extend what you remember of Scouts as a boy into your role as an Assistant Scoutmaster. Without the context of Baden-Powell and why the program is what it is one would continue to play the game rather than support it. I signed up for a ton of training activities this month that I am sure will help me along. I just wanted to comment on what an eye-opener this was for me.”

“Twigeater HELP me explain to my kid that Girl Scout Brownies do NOT sit around cooking brownies at meetings!!

No joke.
http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/40830,-1.php”

“Girl Scout - "Want to buy some Girl Scout cookies?"

Wednesday Adams - "Are they made from real Girl Scouts?"”

“The "someone" who "screwed up" was the Knights of Columbus.
Don't worry, the grand poobah is getting this as well. I looked them us this am, was quite surprised to see they are a Christian organization - I know nothing about them - so when the guy kept saying "we're having a fourth degree meeting" I just shrugged.

Regardless of the "screw up" (which I pointedly avoided including in the note for other reasons) their treatment of these little girls was horrible.
Keep in mind, not one of those men were polite AT ALL - they were extrememly rude. At one point I said, "you're grown men, these are 6 year old girls" and not letting them use the bathroom, c'mon...

What do they do in these KofC meetings that's so secret, jerk each other off or something?”

“so when the guy kept saying "we're having a fourth degree meeting

or maybe its like in Animal House when they are getting initiated "thank you sir may I have another"”

“The Knights of Columbus meetings these men go to are to escape from women for a few minutes, LOL. ;-)”

“"We Do"
-- The Mystical Fraternal Order Brotherhood of
Stone Cutters (From the Simpsons)


Who controls the British crown?

Who keeps the metric system down?

We do! We do!

Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?

Who keeps the Martians under wraps?

We do! We do!

Who holds back the electric car?

Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?

We do! We do!

Who robs cavefish of their sight?

Who rigs every Oscar night?

We do! We do!”

“The Knights of Columbus meetings these men go to are to escape from women for a few minutes, LOL. ;-)”
GreasyGrimyGopherGutsStomper
11:01:53 AM
10/18/05

well then, why didn't they quit botherin' us??”

“LOL”

“I guess I need to revise my letter so it isn't so mild...

No one finds it unreal that a room full of grown men in gowns and funny hats are so afraid of a few 6 year old girls that they won't let them out of a little room to pee?”

“Darn it twiggy! Didn't you see the NO GIRLS ALLOWED sign?
It's a standard requirement for all little boys clubs!”