Don't Shop at Wal-Mart

“LOL @ Nigal”

“Part of the "extra high" cost of health care is the profit margin of private insurance.

National health care is delivered at cost.

Part of the high cost is that some procedures are over-sold.

Again, it's the quest for profit being the prime factor, not service to the public.

How many times have we heard, ".....we are only responsible to our shareholders, not the public well being..."

Imagine if our national defense was driven by profit and not by service to the nation??

Oh wait.................”

“I hope that the government can be do for healthcare with a national health plan as to what they've done for retirement with social security.”

“Ponzi went to jail for what he did. But the perpetuators of SS look to be re-elected.”

“Healthcare costs that much because it is privatized.” Buddha Bear

Part of the "extra high" cost of health care is the profit margin of private insurance. National health care is delivered at cost. Part of the high cost is that some procedures are over-sold. Again, it's the quest for profit being the prime factor, not service to the public. mARKo

You guys crack me up. Don't you read ANYTHING? Is your entire life run by your preconcieved (often errorneous) notions? Are you so hung up with promoting your own agendas that you won't admit realities? You claim to really care about the masses, yet to promote the idea that the cost of healthcare is "someone elses problem", and, consistent with your political phiolosophy, NOT ask someone to be self-responsible by exercising a little, cutting out the fat-laden fast food, etc., and promoting the benefits of being able to NOT fall for the "feel good" advertising of Pharma companies, you give the impression that you're actually afraid of LEARNING something & are intellectually incapable of changing your opinion even if you learn some facts!

I stated above (and this is not my opinion, but documented fact) that the Administrative costs to deliver healthcare are approaching 30%. So, Buddha, that's a part of the problem, but not the entire problem, please learn a little before your spout off.

I also stated above that the costs to deliver healthcare to overweight people is now estimated to be ONE BILLION dollars!

Get your priorities straight, gentlemen. If you really care about people, stop telling them that someone else is going to take care of all their woes, you are creating a permanent undersclass that will never be able to be served as you wish, the $$ just aren't there, as much as you might like it to be so, this IS NOT a socialistic government, people have to exercise some self-responsibility for their own well-being. To promote anything less to them is doing all an incredible disservice, if you REALLY cared about people you'd face reality & stop feeding them crap just because "you wish it so".”

“Wanderer, you really don't see the bigger picture do you. Sure Americans could live healthier lives, but people will still typically get sick at some point in their lives. There is a certain cost involved with unhealthy lifestlyes, but you choose to focus on that to the point of ignoring everything else that ills America's healthcare system, penalizes every American and cuts the competitivness of every American company in an expanding global business climate It is businesses that pick up the majority of healthcare costs.
And it's not taking care of all their woes, it's offering basic human services to all in the richest country in the world by far. Offering some BASIC rights and services really doesn't make a country socialist.”

“Pay attention, Y2, before you get diarreah of the keyboard, I never said anything about not providing basic services, in fact if you scroll up you'll see where I was writing about the fact that one cannot be turned away from an ER regardless of their insured status.

I simply believe to promote to individuals that they should rely upon someone else (government) for their healthcare, instead of telling them the truth, and that is that RIGHT NOW they are responsible for their own needs, is disingenious and misleading.

That is not REALITY, regardless of wht you or I might want, the REALITTY is that people have to take care of their own needs.

I thought this thread was about WHAT IS, not what we might like.”

“Offering some BASIC rights and services really doesn't make a country socialist.

Where are our basic rights defined?

I'd like to read in that document where free healthcare is listed.”

“Buddha wants the government to run our healthcare? And he calls me stupid?


I want an apology! :)”

“Wanderer - Just because your narrow view of the world is wrong ;op doesn't mean others are paying attention - but then anyone not seeing the world through your eyes can either be dismissed as lazy, undeserving or in possession of a limited attention span - it makes it easier do dismiss opposing opinions that way.

And you because something is a certan way doesn't mean it can't be improved - I wouldn't have thought a man who has grasped his oppotunities so successfully would just throw up his hands and say, "that's the way it is, it won't change."

Oh, and BASIC healthcare is more than just about the ER room. In fact my insurance company is anxious to give me all the preventative measures and services out there, most are completely free - as it stops them having to pay out on a major claim. The insurance company seems to think that preventing illness is a good thing. Obviously to you preventing illness or perhaps lowering America's infant mortality rate (better in Cuba btw) isn't a BASIC healthcare service.

And yet the system we have at the moment”

“I don't believe that the majority of serious illnesses are self created. In other words, you did something wrong so you got cancer or heart disease and ran up huge medical bills. Of course in some cases of obesity and smoking the link is there. We are now finding the many people are born with bad genetics and are preprogrammed to get cancer, heart or other serious ills and no lifestyle modification will make much of a difference. This can happen to anyone and since 1 out of 3 people will get cancer in their lifetime it's likely that anyone here can be faced with fighting for their life for years going through expensive treatment through no fault of their own. The question is how will care be delivered in the most cost effective way? That's the big issue and one with no easy answer. Sure everyone can do better when it comes to a healthy lifestyle and I can nit pick every little thing for every illness out there and blame the patient for his or her ills, but people will get sick at some point regardless. Nobody is going to live forever so at some point in your lifetime unless you meet your demise from something else everyone will get a life threathening diagnosis and it probably won't be of their own doing.”

“A friend of mine works at the Civic Center in his town. Just today the wal-mart in that town had their employee Christmas party at the civic center...sounds great right? Wellllll....Wal-Mart charged each employee $7.00 per ticket to attend their own freakin Christmas party. WALMART BLOWS...carry on.”

“Would you really trust the Cuban or US numbers?”

“Would you really trust the Cuban or US numbers?”

“The problem with this thread can be summed up easily... quote Rich B (and I'm not picking on him): "I don't believe that the majority of serious illnesses...."

What you BELIEVE is irrelevant, yet we have all these "I don't believe" "I don't think" Bull#&%!$ posts.

How about basing your comments on some FACTS, people. OF COURSE not all illnesses are caused by self-inflicted means, I was referring to THE COSTS associated with caring for those, and then *assuming* you all would understand that if we spend 1 Billion on those, then that's 1 Billion less we can spend on other stuff.

And while we're at it, when you start looking at statistics, don't forget that everyone has to die of something, and many organizations tout the stats as reason for you to donate more $$ to them. For instance, EVENTUALLY, everyone's heart will wear out if you live long enough, if you happen to live to 95, and your heart wears out, then "statistically" many will claim you died of "heart disease" and cry / whine for more federal $$ for heart disease.

You didn't die of heart disease, you died of old age. Deal with it.
last edited: 12/04/05 8:43:20 PM”

“http://www.variety.com/VR1117933941.html

Wal-Mart is helping to support the Brooks Political Machine.

Boycott Wal-Mart!”

“"I believe" - and expression, and yet you decide to pick on that element. Yes Wanderer, your words are FACTS whereas everyone else just has an opinion. "I believe" you weigh your judgments on the wrong FACTS, and simply choose to ignore other FACTS.”

“Speaking of facts, but where are our "basic rights" defined? (sorry to repeat myself)”

“Come on guys!
You aren't even trying!
Get them turds to flying! ;-)”

“Y2, I just gave you a few facts for which I can provide numerous documented references should you need them.

1. Up to 30% of Healthcare costs are consumed via adminstration costs.

2. We, as a nation, now spend upwards of $1,000,000,000 annually providing care for people who have healthcare problems exacerbated by their chosen lifestyle... primarily, dietary habits (ie., the overweight population)

3. We ofetn do an injustice to people by leading them to believe that someone else will take care of them, when in reality we do not have a system in place to accommodate all the needs of all the masses who are being told they need not learn self-sufficiency.

None of this is opinion, it is all fact. So... where was I wrong?”

“There was a story on the news last week about a pharmacy in a small midwestern town that was selling drugs at a tenth of other stores. The pharmacist was charging what he needed not what the drug companies recommended. Anyone else see this?”

“Bacpac, I saw that too. The markup on the drugs he mentioned were sky high. I think on bottle of pills he bought for $15 had an MSRP of $150.”

“The phone rings and the lady of the house answers, "Hello".

"Mrs. Ward, please."

"Speaking."

"Mrs. Ward, this is Doctor Stevens at the Medical Testing Laboratory. When your doctor sent your husband's biopsy to the lab yesterday, a biopsy from another Mr. Ward arrived as well, and we are now uncertain which one is your husband's. Frankly the results are either bad or terrible."

"What do you mean?" Mrs. Ward asks nervously.

"Well, one of the specimens tested positive for Alzheimer's and the other one tested positive for AIDS. We can't tell which is your husband's."

"That's dreadful! Can't you do the test again?" questioned Mrs. Ward.

"Normally we can, but Medicare will only pay for these expensive tests one time."

"Well, what am I supposed to do now?"

"The people at Medicare recommend that you drop your husband off somewhere in the middle of town.....if he finds his way home, don't sleep with him."”

“The story seems to indicate that drug companies are not the source of high costs. The local pharmacy seemed to be as culpable.”

“A very long article but very informative.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa211.html”

“birch - This professor, who starts off with a lot of double talk, did not win my approval with all of his ideas. If we are not productive(?), we should be allowed to die early! What happened to our expectancy of enjoying the "Golden Years?" Next, he wants to cut back or eliminate third party payments for medical care and pass more of the costs to the individuals. I can barely manage the "co-payment" right now. And my insurance company has already changed things to the point that I will not be able to make the payments for any expensive medical treatment that I may require in the future. This article is promoting a system under which only the rich will be able to afford full medical attention and care.

In short, this guy, Stan Liebowitz, supports reducing the large amount of money going into medical services by reducing use of medical services by the population. I expect that, in turn, this would reduce the availability and advancement of medical technology. To achieve this goal he promotes returning more of the costs to the individual, thus giving the individual more control over his personal, medical care. But the only choice is to get medical care or to bypass it. So, when you have a cut, use duck tape instead of having a doctor insert stitches. He is saying , heal thyself!

---

His work on Napster, the RIAA and file sharing is more entertaining.
last edited: 12/05/05 8:42:13 AM”

“NS, I certainly dont agree with everything he proposes however he offers quite a bit of hard data that has been lacking in this discussion.”

“"I also stated above that the costs to deliver healthcare to overweight people is now estimated to be ONE BILLION dollars!

Get your priorities straight, gentlemen. If you really care about people, stop telling them that someone else is going to take care of all their woes, you are creating a permanent undersclass that will never be able to be served as you wish, the $$ just aren't there, as much as you might like it to be so, this IS NOT a socialistic government, people have to exercise some self-responsibility for their own well-being. To promote anything less to them is doing all an incredible disservice, if you REALLY cared about people you'd face reality & stop feeding them crap just because "you wish it so".”
wanderer2
7:05:19 PM
12/04/05

Maybe if we weren't eating processed foods (made by private corps) that are full of all the fat and nasty crap that add to obesity, people would be less overweight. Also, maybe if companies acted in an etichal way (ie TOBBACCO mfg.s), and didn't commercialize the healthy aspects of smoking in the 40's-50's, we wouldn't have many of the HC problems that we have today.

Unethical and unregulated corporations who are driven by greed are the problem behind the problem. It's quite possible that if people didn't have to work 2-3 jobs, with both earners in the household working two jobs, they'd have time to make a non-processed sandwich, brought from thier local farmer, instead of McDonalds. But we have created such a machine of consumerism to prop up the wealth of a few, that that is nearly impossible.

But I do have to give corporations credit, they do have a plan to decrease obesity..... pay people as little as possible so they don't eat, and work them as much as possible. It would really lessen obesity, and allow the insurance companies to make even more money!”

“No one forces anyone to eat poorly or smoke. Its an individuals choice. I smoked for ten years and not once ever did any force me to do so. I chose to quit (3 years nearly), I used to be obese, I stopped eating so much, I read nutritional labels and excercise its not rocket science. You can leave the care of your body up to others (which many do) or take responsibility for yourself live well.

I make less than the median household income and support a child and full time student wife and we have the money and time to eat well and excercise its not like we have to grow the veggies and harvest whole graimns they are cheap and readily available.

The issue of taking responsiblity for your health and genetic issues are different but related in that if you know your family has weak hearts (like mine) you need to do all you can to do your part to no worsen your predisposition. ie...wear sunblock if you are prone to skin cancer.
last edited: 12/05/05 8:55:25 AM”

“birch - I agree. But who needs data, when one's mind is already made up. LOL.

---

Why do I get in on these Fuego threads? I expected Matt to change the catagory of this thread long ago.”

“LOL NS!!!!!”

“I was having a similar discussion with a buddy the other day. Another chp was lamenting the cost of health care and my buddy chimed about R&D costs plus major treatments. I knew he was a cancer survivor but he gave me details.

Diagnosed in 1991, lymphoma, testicular.

13 surgeries including 4 that opened him up from navel to neck, plus 2 neck surgeries (lymph nodes), the guy is alive today because of private for profits companies research and some would say greed. Its easy to sit outside and lament. But when you need need it you will praise the evil companies and pharmaceuticals that saved your life.”

“So not only does Buddha want the government to run healthcare but he wants them to penalize or regulate people’s personal lives? Abortion is a right of privacy but Big Macs aren’t? Now there’s fascism we can vote for!

“Give me hot wings or give me death!””

“Eat enough hot wings and you can have both. :-D”

“All things in moderation my son...”

“ they'd have time to make a non-processed sandwich, brought from thier local farmer, instead of McDonalds.

I think I found my next career-
sandwich farmer.”

“BTW, now I'm hungry for a plate of hot wings and a beer. I blame Nigal.”

“LMAO @ HPM! That's one that will stick with me all day and make me chuckle. Thanks!”

“I think sacco is a sandwich farmer”

“Loaf of whole wheat bread from outlet $1.09
1lb of turkey meat, costco $3.00
1lb lettuce discount market $.99

10 ultra healthy sandwiches...priceless

okay,not priceless but less than $6. Cant hardly eat McD's for $6 for one meal.
last edited: 12/05/05 9:20:13 AM”

“Sorry dude. A sandwich just isn't a sandwich without the tangy zip of Miricle Whip.”

“I'll have to hire migrants to harvest them by hand though. The combine will chop 'em all up into deli tray size.”

“True nigal.

The killer is the countless hours I must spend fabricating my sandwhiches. It must be cause I am a non-union sandwhich assembler.”

“I struck for my rights at home, but my wife hit me back..”

“I wish I needed to go to the market today. I would copy my receipt. I could show how expensive it is to buy fruit and veggies for the 3 of us. I mean it costs like $25 every two weeks to get about 6 grocery bags full, prolly 20lbs of food. The three of us cant hardly eat one meal out for $25. Its about choices.”

“Loaf of whole wheat bread from outlet $1.09
1lb of turkey meat, costco $3.00
1lb lettuce discount market $.99

10 ultra healthy sandwiches...priceless

birch
9:18:54 AM
12/05/05


birch, don't forget to add gas and your time for having to go to 3 different stores ;)”

“I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is probably my most favorite thread so far!”

“ewker, thats the beauty part. We shop when we are in the area. Example the bread shop and fruit market are on the way to the inlaws, we stop enroute. Costco is a mile away so 10-12 round trips cost a gallon so $2 divided by 10 trips equals another 20 cents. Boy McD' is sounding cheaper by the minute LOL! BTW do you factor in gas when going out to eat? Prolly not.”

“I know, I know! In the parking lot in front of the supermarket, a guy was quite unhappy. Someone had gotten into his car and had stolen $30 of groceries from his glove box!”

“non-con, I will come right out and say it..

MEIJERS ROCKS!!!!!!!!!”