alcohol stove secrets

“I have a sierra zip stove (heavy and messy but has its niche) dragonfly (clean but still a little large sometimes) and I've ordered a brunton raptor cannister stove. I keep reading about the little homemade alcohol stoves and decided to set about making one. I settled on the v8 juice side burner design and got a red bull can also because it was supposed to fit over the bottom easier. I used some templates but I must have gotten the holes wrong because when I put it together my holes were too low and the overlap covered them. No problem, I simply drilled new holes with my dremel. The first time I fired it up (actually it was the second time because I actually tried to light it with the holes covered up) it went out after I put my pot on it so thinking it needed an oxygen vent I made a few more holes only lower, I really think it was out of alcohol, I wasn't sure how much to use.

It seemed to work ok but was so small I could hardly balence my snowpeak titanium 900 pot on it. I would compare it to the esbit, which I also have but don't consider that so much a stove as a mere fuel tab, and also messy.

I am wondering about making the slots instead of holes but could find no pics or info on the web. I am also wondering about the stategy of where to place the holes and how high to make the stove. I may try again using soft drink cans.

It would be a nice thing to take on a dayhike for a hot drink but I don't think I would be using one for a longer hike, I like to be able to simmer and have had no problem makeing rice in my titanium pot with my dragonfly, no scorching or anything, I don't expect to have a problmem with the cannister stove either but we'll see. I may fashion a heat distribution disk out of something if I have to.

I also have a msr titan kettle ordered and a titanium spork!!! My feet hurt too much to haul all the #&%!$ around I usually do so I'm trying to lighten up. I've decided that I'm uncomfortable sleeping no matter what so I am going to forgo the thermorest and use a ridgerest the next time, we'll see how that goes.

I expected to have all sorts of scorching and burning problems with the titanium and I've been fixing side dishes in it with my dragonfly and havn't had a problmem yet.”

“I don't like the sit pot on top alcohol burners.

I use a homemade stand like this one:
http://www.datasync.com/~wksmith/lizstove.html
last edited: 12/04/05 4:32:46 PM”

“Margo, what StoveStomper says. The best thing, I found, is not to set pot on top of stove, it seems to rob it of oxygen and put it out. Instead, I experimented with ideal distances between stove, flames, and pot bottom finding that about two inches seems right. StoveStompers design is the one I use and works great for those extra tent pegs you get with tents (plus handy if ya lose one for your tent too). I found that the little Dinty Moore "Noodles & Chicken" cans (with pull up tab) are the perfect size for fitting inside the soda cans, so I use it for the bottom (after cutting off the top two inches around) and fashion my soda can bottoms with the vents for the top part. Before putting it down over the Dinty Moore can, sand the surfaces and apply some stove cement (dark gray goop in a little plastic can - at hardware stores) around the outside of the Dinty Moore can and push on your soda can bottom/top. Then punch your holes (jets) with a black drywall screw, they are hard metal and have a sharp point which will easily puncture the aluminium. With practice you can pop em out to perfect size, but not too big now. I'll post some pics in the pictures section of the components I use so you can see.
last edited: 12/04/05 5:00:14 PM”

“I was wonderin if the pressurized is more fuel efficient than the open design, I can't decide with my tests. Seems they are both about even in burn time with 1oz. or 2oz. of alcy. I made one that is a little shorty I call the "mini-mizer" that will burn for 20 minutes on a full load (about 3 1/2 oz.)
last edited: 12/04/05 5:31:44 PM”

“I keep returning to the classic open top/inner wall design.

IMHO the pressure types don't do any better fuel wise that the open tops. Any savings in fuel they might have is negated by the extra fuel required to prewarm the burner to get it going.

At least one of my 'Pepsi' burners traveled the whole length of the AT.
Ask C!B! about the burner I gave to him.
last edited: 12/04/05 5:37:07 PM”

“Here is the classic design plus a ton more on the Wings site:

http://wings.interfree.it/html/Pepsi.html”

“Prewarming is and extra step for sure but I make both kinds and use both kinds. Heck, as cheap and easy as they are to make I could leave em at shelters and carry spares. lol.
I find that about 1oz. of fuel normally burns five minutes, Margo, enough to boil 8-12 oz. water....or make my morning espresso.
last edited: 12/04/05 5:56:18 PM”

“My secret: Find a guy on ebay that sells one for Bout $8 including pot stand. Rationale: Hey its $8 and it worked great for me. Mine Rocks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BACKPACKING-COOK-STOVE-BACKPACK-ALCOHOL-CAMPING-STOVES_W0QQitemZ8730735449QQcategoryZ87136QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem”

“Try my design with the burner and pot support made together: http://www.cloudwalkersbasecamp.com/alcohol_stove.html



Be sure to click onto the "How it works" link, there is a short video of the stove in action.”

“I got the best performance (where performance = amount of fuel needed to boil 16oz of water) from the pressurized side-burner design where the pot set on the stove. The red bull can version worked best. The open-top double-walled design works well but I never found it to be even close in terms of fuel use.

Different people have different performance goals.

I'll say this much. Lots of people focus on the stove but it's the cooking _system_ that is important: pot, windscreen, stove, potstand that is the key. All have to work together.

I did a lot of playing with pots and found that all the titanium pots weren't nearly as good to boil water in as my aluminum pots. And among my AL pots the ones with the rounded edges worked better than those with the squared-off edges. Titanium is far less conductive of heat than aluminum which is excellent at this. All my titanium stuff sits on the shelf now and I wish I never bought it.”

“Jimmy san is correct about The System.
All must work together.

This is my set up I have been using about a year or so now:



The burner is made from the little juice cans. It's a little less than an inch high and is sized to hold exactly one fl oz of alcohol. It will boil 16 fl oz of very cold H2O.



LOL, only time I've had problems is when I took a AT hike in the Smokies and stayed in the shelters without a tent, and no stakes.”

“I was waitin for someone to say "then send em to me Jimmy san" LOL. And your right Jimmy san, the whole works made to work together as a system. I'm still fine tunin mine, but I've found out something..........no matter how long it's been I'M STILL FINE TUNIN MINE! is this some sorta fetish?”

“I love my Evernew 0.9 L ti pot.
I think it's close to the ideal cook pot for solo backpacking. That's what I use with the above windscreen/potstand and burner.”

“Thanks for all the ideas! I like my ti pans, I think part of the appeal of the stove is making and designing it yourself. I didn't have trouble getting water to boil in my ti pot but then it was a nice warm and windproof kitchen. I may change my tune if I get a system that passes my beta testing at home.”

“Who needs it? Mine works. I made it out of a couple of pop cans on my lunch break.

Here's my stove and stand. The stand is made out of 1/2" machinist's cloth:




Here I've added the windscreen. It's step flashing that I riveted together. I'm too cheap to buy a roll of aluminum valley flashing.



Here's the whole setup:



My pot is a big aluminum one.


Finally, my stove in action, after boiling two cups of water:



They're not hard to make, you just need a little practice.”

“My experience is that alcohol stoves are not very effective. The esbit stove is not very effective, but the solid fuel is easier to use than alcohol. I use an esbit stove for winter dayhikes. Just as light weight as alcohol and heats just as poorly.”

“I use the standard design, but put JB Weld on the inside lip of the can where the inner wall meets. It has reduced the amount of vapor escaping to the inside of the burner.

Additionally, I use the construction mesh for a pot stand, but unlike bitpushers design, I folded the cloth to the inside and made a nice stable top.

When used with the wally world grease pot, I am finding I can boil a cup and a half of water on an ounce of alcohol (or less), in about 6 minutes.”

“Oh, and I made my windscreen out of heavy duty aluminum foil. Works just as good as anything else I have tried and folds up to fit in the pot with the stove and pot stand.”

“My design goal was to boil 2 cups of water with .5 oz of alcohol so that I could do a weekend trip on 3 oz of fuel (meals, coffee, tea, reserve). I have been able to do this for quiet a while now in warmer weather but in colder weather I need extra fuel. In cold weather I ditch the alcohol stove altogether and go the opposite route and pack my gas/kero stove. I feel I need it to melt snow in a reliable fashion. That plus it's fun.”

“My feelings are hurt that no one said anything about my kewl artwork on my alcohol bottle. ;-)”

“Hey StoveStomper, that artwork is NY ArtGallery quality, should we be watching EBay for "rock bottom prices on folk art"??”

“I turned my points out because my pot is so big. I wanted a nice stable platform for it.”

“SS: For sure I noticed it! I get b1tched at by my SO for not doing the same to my bottles.”

“Thats better...LOL.”

“SS - I did the same thing on my fuel bottle - nice ounce ticks in permanent marker, a nice "Fuel - Alcohol" label on it to make sure I didn't try to swig the wrong bottle around the fire.

First time the fuel dribbled down the side it all washed away in 2 secs. Now I know how to remove permanent marker, LOL. Denatured alcohol.

bacpac - I've never had an issue with mine in cold weather. Out friday night with EarthNSky, jackstraw, etc. and it was around 25F Saturday morning. Stove fired right up and boiled my tea and oatmeal water about as fast as ENS's gas stove sitting next to mine. The key is good shielding to hold the heat in around the stove itself, and a top for the pot (I use aluminum foil for both). People that claim you can't use a Pepsi stove in cold weather aren't doing it right.”

“techntrek, compare an alcohole stove with an MSR Whisperlite.”

“Compare what? Boil times? Fuel consumption? Maintenance hassles? Weight?

I'm not in a hurry to boil my water when hiking. If it takes me 8 minutes to boil 2 cups of water when its 25F outside (instead of 2 or 3 with a gas stove), no big deal to me. I'm out there to relax, not win races. Besides, from start to finish (fuel up, light, cook) even though the gas stoves cook faster, I'm still usually done first due to the negligible set-up and lighting times.

Fuel consumption isn't much different.

Maintenance - no exageration, almost every trip I go on someone has a problem with their gas stoves. Jets clogged, pressure issues, something. One trip I took with a friend of mine 2 years ago I was done eating and he was just getting his stove to work. Bison couldn't get his stove to light on the Blair Witch trip in January, and ENS had issues on the trip I just took last weekend. In the 5 years I've used my stove I've had to scrape burnt food off a few burner holes once. Haven't had to do anything else to it. When I'm out there, I want to know my stove will work.

My entire cook kit weighs less than most gas stoves, even the modern ones without a permanent tank.”

“Cloudwalker,

I like your stove.
What size tuna can is that. It has to be 10oz can to hold 5 oz of fuel-doesn't it?”

“What is the strategy on planning the ht of the stove and hole placement? The templates I used at the zen stove site seemed pretty meticulous, I'm wondering if it really has to be that exact.

I'm going to make some more, I'm going to try sealing the top inner wall ridge with jb weld. I may make my inner wall and seal it as well and fasten it with paper clips while it sets.

Is there some advantage in a shorter stove over a taller one? Does a shorter stove work better with holes placed higher or something?”

““Cloudwalker,

I like your stove.
What size tuna can is that. It has to be 10oz can to hold 5 oz of fuel-doesn't it?”

It's the large size, what ever that is.....and thanks.
last edited: 12/05/05 7:26:20 PM”

“I'm going to try one of cloudwalkers stoves as well! The super cat looks simple and effective also.”

“technetrek, I like coffee in the morning. I could not wait for 8 minutes for just two cups of coffee.”

“Margo,
The size of the stove has more to do with the size of the pot you are going to be using that anything else. You want a flame distribution that just reaches the outside edge of the bottom of the pot. The size of the holes are not that important as long as the flame spread is still under the pot. I use a small tomato juice can stove for my Evernew 0.09 liter pot. For a larger pot, I use a pepsi can stove. The fastest boil times can be obtained by using a larger diameter pot, making the water more shallow, with a wider flamed burner. Having the wind screening come up the sides of the pot also helps to speed things up.”

“BS ain't BSing you!
All true!”

“The only BS is the size of my pot: it is 0.9 instead of 0.09!”

“Tall, narrow pots like the MSR ti 'kettle' are not efficient. That is why I use an Evernew 0.9L Ti pot. It's shorter and wider.


I found one of my early homemade 'pressure' stoves last night. Lit it up and it burned pretty well and hot. Still don't like the idea of being in the backcountry and loseing the filler hole screw. Just too many parts.

K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid

I like the one piece 'pepsi' style best.”

“SS,
I kinda fixed that pressure screw problem by putting 4 small, burner size holes in the middle of the stove where you would normally put the screw. When you pour in the fuel, it will go into the stove through the 4 small holes - slowly but not to slow. The net effect is that you have burner holes on the outside rim and 4 burner holes in the middle, all with much more pressure than an open burner. I use the small tomato can size with the Evernew Ti 0.9 pot.”

“BS
I've seen that on the net.
I'll have to try it on a new one.

Have you made any of Sgt Rock's new style IONS? I've messed around with it for a few stoves and they do work but he and I come from different directions of what we want from a burner.
http://www.ionstove.com/
Sgt Rock is all about using the absolute minimun amount of fuel with little worry about SPEED.
I want a trade off. I'll accept slightly more fuel needed for much faster boil times.

The little 'pepsi' burners I make now from the juice cans seem to work for me. They hold a max of 1 fl oz and have yet to not boil two cups of the coldest water within 6 minutes or so.

last edited: 12/08/05 10:41:24 AM”

“I have made some of the open burner type stoves. I'm kinda stuck on the simple two can bottoms with no internal stuff at all type of stoves. I don't build the internal walls or use fiberglass. Just two can bottoms and a small drill. I do like the cat can stove, but it does use a lot of fuel. My next try will be the type with the burner holes on the side of an open top can-all one piece, the only thing you do is eat the contents and drill the holes. But, I'm guessing I will have to use a wider bottomed pot to make it effecient.
last edited: 12/08/05 10:41:06 AM”

“BS - What do you use to size your burner holes?
I have used a very small hobby hand drill to drill holes but lately I just use the end of a sharpened paper clip.”

“BS - that is what I did - several small holes in the middle that double as burner vents. No cap/screw.”

“SS
For the tomato can stoves, I use an ice pick. and push in the holes from the inside of the can until a paper clip will just bairly...bearly...tightly fit in the hole, and then sand the outside protruding piece of metal down until it is not sharp (not all the way to the can though). The four center holes are made from the outside of the can.
If you do the holes first, the two halves will slide together easier.
I have a dremmel tool and some small bits, but the only size I know is to compare them to a paper clip. The drill also makes much neater holes, but is slower-because I have to dig it all out an put it together. With the ice pick, you just pick it up and use it.

I'd bet you could put a sharp piece of paper clip in your dremmel tool and effectively make cleaner hole. I have used small nails as drill bits before for woodworking projects.

I burned up my dremmel a couple of weeks ago and am hoping for a new one for Christmas.
last edited: 12/08/05 4:16:20 PM”

“Just to reiterate what I said on this thread a little over a year ago - pepsi stoves work just fine in cold weather. It was 3F yesterday morning and mine fired right up with the usual amount of priming fuel in my stand/primer. I did hold my lighter directly on the pepsi can a little longer to kick-start the process, but that was it. Boiled a cup of water for hot chocolate in a few minutes.

I know there are those that don't believe they will work in cold temps, just dispelling the myth.”

“Don't let Q see this. Hissy Fit City!!!!
LOL”

“match or lighting a dipped stick then touching it to the surface of the alcohol also works in the cold without the need of warming the stove or the alcohol”

“The pepsi can stoves will light up OK in the cold weather, but you'll wait longer and use lots of alcohol in the process. It's a personal taste thing, but when it's cold I want hot water as fast as I can get it and lots of it. Once it gets below freezing I stop using my alcohol stove.
last edited: 2/05/07 3:13:06 PM”

“I used mine this past weekend. Lows were in the teens and the stove boiled my water (2 cups) as fast as it normally does.”

“Yup, mine boiled just as fast as when its 70 out. Same amount of fuel, too. In fact I threw in an extra splash all 3 times I used it thinking I would need a longer burn time, and ended up having to just burn it off because I didn't need it. Nice hand warmer, though.

I can't justify the extra weight and massive fuss/breakage factor that a regular stove has just to cut my boil time from 7 minutes to 3 minutes. I spend that extra 4 minutes setting up my tent, taking it down, or enjoying the view. And cook time isn't the whole story. There have been multiple times where I've finished eating and others are still trying to get their regular stoves lit.”

“the stove from White Box off ebay says it will boil 2 cups with 2/3 ounce of fuel in 4 minutes. I know a guy who has one and thinks it is great. I have noticed he has changed designs from how he did make them
http://cgi.ebay.com/WHITE-BOX-STOVES-BACKPACK-ALCOHOL-CAMP-COOKING-STOVE_W0QQitemZ220077426625QQihZ012QQcategoryZ87136QQcmdZViewItem


Very tempted to buy one”