Terrorism/Gun Control/War

“Then why have they been issued guns at an increase from about 6,000 in 1994-95 to over 12,000 in 1997-8?

Nothing shows it has worked. While our crime rate was dropping yours was going up. How's that?”

“The UK's murder rate is one sixth that of the US.”

““handguns were banned when a 'gun nut' went on a rampage in a shcool and killed 15 toddlers.”

And taking away the rights of the whole country over one incident doesn't seem rash to you?”

“Because it depends on the type of crime Nigal. It also depends on how crimes are recorded.

The issue figure you quote, is that gun licences?”

““The UK's murder rate is one sixth that of the US.”

You can hardly attribute this to gun control. That's a stretch even for you. BTW- the us ranks 24th in murder rate per capita. Not bad for a bunch of cowboys.”

“The presence of a peenus between your legs increases your chance of raping a woman by 10%.


The presence of a beer in your fridge increases your chance of being an alcoholic 20%.


The presence of statistics on the internet, no matter the source or whether they can be substantiated, increases your use of quoting them 90%.”

“Funny you should bring that up Noncom. The US is #1 in rapes. We should turn in our wieners.”

“You know that in my state we cannot own lawn darts? Lawn darts! Just like horseshoes....toss the dart in the air, it comes down in or near a ring and you earn points for accuracy. Why no lawn darts? Because years ago, ONE kid was killed after being struck in the head by one. Obviously they HAD to be banned after that.”

“It's the dominoe effect. Today they take your lawn darts tomorrow they're coming for your Cornhole. Damn game grabbers!

”

“Seriously though some of the laws we strap ourselves with is ridiculous. In my home town we can’t rent/buy porn, can’t own a pot bellied pig, and can’t cruise downtown.
We slowly give up so many rights without even a protest.

And no I’m not going to go for the trifecta of shooting a piggy porn film in a van while cruising downtown.”

“And no I’m not going to go for the trifecta of shooting a piggy porn film in a van while cruising downtown.”
Nigal
7:07:33 PM
12/14/05


But I thought you've always wanted to direct?”

“Everyone knows the producers get all the girls. lol”

“Who gets the pigs?”

“Grips...”

“The presence of a peenus between your legs increases your chance of raping a woman by 10%.Nonconformist
5:56:36 PM
12/14/05
ignore this user first you must have a #&%!$.”

“"I encourage every single American to take on the fight for their rights and to buy and legally carry a concealed weapon."
Nigal

what if i dont want a weapon? are you, s-rge, and non-hobbit going to show up on my doorstep and make me?”

“If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months,and a total of 2,112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.

That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington.”

hobbit
5:00:02 PM

The presence of statistics on the internet, no matter the source or whether they can be substantiated, increases your use of quoting them 90%.”
Nonconformist
6:56:36 PM”

“Come on now Mr. English major. Read my post again. I ENCOURAGE.”

“and if encouraging doesnt work?”

“You don't have to take advantage of any right we have. That's freedom. Just don't keep me from mine because you don't want to. Tell ya what, I want try to keep you from having an abortion if you let me keep my gun rights, cool?”

“im not trying to keep you from having a gun”

“Gun haters said when the federal assault-weapons ban expired on Sept. 13, 2004, gun crimes would surge dramatically.

But the FBI data for 2004 shows that in the months after the assault weapons ban expired, crime went down. During 2004 the murder rate nationwide fell by 3 percent, with firearm deaths dropping by 4.4 percent.
During 2004, the monthly crime rate for the United States as a whole and the monthly murder rate plummeted 14 percent from August through December.

The seven states that have their own assault-weapons bans saw a smaller drop in murders last year than the 43 states without such laws. States with bans averaged a 2 percent decline in murders. States without bans saw murder rates fall by more than 3.4 percent”

“im convinced. im going to go out right now and buy a machine gun and put it on my front lawn. thatll keep away those pesky kids at halloween”

“Machine guns are illegal---unless you have an expen$$ive permit.”

“See not gun haters Prosecutor, people who want to encourage more responsible gun ownership in a society which will always have guns.

The UK is a different country altogether. Guns have not been a part of everyday life, so you can't suddenly introduce them - believe me, there would be carnage as the first people to go get one would be the people you'd least like to have them. Most people in the UK have a fear of guns.

Sure gun crime in increasing, the dominance of US culture is having a role on that. Every wannabe gangsta now only sees himself as a man if he has a gun. Border control has also come down as a result of greater integration within the EU - but what you do have to remember is that gun crime still makes up only a tiny proportion of overall crime - and the overall rise in crime has little to do with a handgun ban. Criminals have never faced the prospect of being confronted by a victim with a gun - so banning handguns had no effect on that.
You could claim that widespread gun ownership would cut other crime, by making criminals fearful that a potential victim may have a gun, but there's no proof you can point to that would prove this. As this hasn't been tested in Britain.

The handgun ban and the rise in crime is coincidental, and you could more justifiably tie it to court reforms which have taken place, including the failure to use prison as a deterrant for criminals early in their careers.

And 24th in the world... have you seen the coutries ahead of you.... Columbia, South Africa, Jamacia,Zimbabwe, most of the former soviet union.”

““See not gun haters Prosecutor, people who want to encourage more responsible gun ownership in a society which will always have guns."

This is exactly what the NRA does. The NRA is the #1 educator and trainer in fire arm safty and respoonsible gun ownership. So why do they catch so much flack?”

“The NRA is the #1 educator and trainer in fire arm safty and respoonsible gun ownership. So why do they catch so much flack?”
Nigal
7:44:00 PM


same reason PETA does:

they both have good intentions but a few total nutcases that hurt their organazation- they just take things too far.”

“that was me BTW”

“Give it up you stupid conservatives.
Any upper middle class British is smarter than any colonist.
How dare you disagree with your betters.”

“Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%.

Gun control has not worked in Canada. Since the new gun registration program started in 1998, the U.S. homicide rate has fallen, but the Canadian rate has increased.

Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Last year the British government reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the last four years. Serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29% higher than 1996; robbery was 24% higher; murders 27% higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the armed robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. The violent crime rate in England is now double that in the United States.”

“Prosecutor - the DC stats coincided with the mayorships of a coke-sniffing mayor and no funding from congress.
The British stats are completely invalid as handguns were not widely avalaible in any way shape or form before 1997, in fact the ban affected a tiny tiny number of people.
The stats are coincidental and are often trotted out by people who know nothing about the UK and the social and crime issues it faces, to support arguments.
They often wrongly use Australia as an example, a country with a muder rate a fraction of Americas. They are different countries with different issues and they are really only ever used by people who know nothing about the countries involved.”

“Dr. John R. Lott of the University of Chicago Law School published the results of a crime study conducted using FBI data for all 3,045 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992 and showed it was not a coincidence that more gun control resulted in more crime.”

“Y'all crack me up. This thread was started with what I perceived to be a joke.... a lark.... rhetoric spouted forth "tongue in cheek" so to speak, merely to amuse and entertain. Don't take yourselves too seriously okay? You'll give yourselves a heart attack, and THEN who will I exchange barbs with in the middle of the night?”

“you still need to change your name, tho”

“And Y2 goes down in flames yet again...

Silly socialists.”

“poor prosecuter, it's been shown that his hero-god lott is an idiot at best, a liar at worst.

it must suck to put all your faith and devotion into a jerk like that.”

“Professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University, using differenct methodology, has confirmed academically Lott's findings that gun control does not work. Professor Kleck is a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Independent Action, Democrats 2000, and Common Cause, among other politically liberal organizations He is a lifelong registered Democrat, as well as a contributor to liberal Democratic candidates. He is not now, nor has he ever been, a member of, or contributor to, the National Rifle Association, Handgun Control, Inc. nor any other advocacy organization, nor has he received funding for research from any such organization.”

“Ah, character assassination. The liberal's ace-in-the-hole when confronted with irrefutable evidence.”

“that's nice. and if you want, you could easily find a half dozen qualified experts with studies to show the opposite.

what it boils down to is who/what you wanna believe.

do you think a 12 year old should be able to go out and get a dozen uzi's at walmart?

should i be able to buy two thousand 50 cal. machine guns without even registering this info somewhere?

it's common sense. at some point, there has to be some kind of gun control. it's just a question of how much.

so really, everyone (that's sane) believes in some gun control. just because someone believes in a little more control than you do, does not mean they want to take away your rights.

when the DMV comes to take my car, they'll do it from my cold, dead hands too.”

“Sorry sacko, stupid rhetoric is no substitution for facts and stats.”

“LOL

so you're saying that there are absolutely no credible experts or studies that disagree with your opinion on this matter nigal?

{insert gif of nigal with eyes shut, covering ears, and saying LALALALALAL}

do you also disagree with the rest of my 9:26 post?”

“"so you're saying that there are absolutely no credible experts or studies that disagree with your opinion on this matter nigal?"

No, I never said that dipshlt.”

“that's nice. and if you want, you could easily find a half dozen qualified experts with studies to show the opposite.

stupid rhetoric is no substitution for facts and stats.”
Nigal

so you're saying that there are absolutely no credible experts or studies that disagree with your opinion on this matter nigal?


sorry for being such a dlpshlt. i guess you're right, i don't know where i got that from.
please forgive me. i'll try not to be such a dlpshlt in the future.”

“At least do the damn work sacko. There are lots of people who believe in bigfoot too. That doesn't mean I'm going to say I agree without showing proof. It's easy. Just google it.

Lazy liberal.”

“Less than a dozen qualified experts have done academic studies that show Lott's methods might have "flaws" and his claims might be "unsubstantiated". None have academic studies that show gun control works. Pro gun control Professor Bellesiles was fired for his lack of scholarly integrity and falsifying data in his pro-gun control book Arming America.

On the other hand, Professors Malcolm, Kleck, Kates, and others have confirmed Lott's conclusions.”

“why again am i a liberal?

http://www.tsra.com/Lott88.htm

we both believe in some gun control, ya hypocrite.


Incidentally, blogger Alex Robson was prominent in his defence of Lott in the Oz reader comments about Lott's article. After a reader unkindly observed that Lott was an employee of the arch-conservative American Enterprise Institute, our Alex reminded readers that Lott had been a Yale professor when he wrote the pro-gun studies recycled in his Oz article.

Lott recycles a familiar spurious claim of the the US National Rifle Association:

"Horrific events receive extensive news coverage, as they should, but the more than 2 million times each year that Americans use guns defensively are never discussed – even though this is five times the 430,000 times guns were used to commit crimes in 1997."

This claim of 2 million "self-defensive uses of guns per year derives from an article by Professors Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun, 86 J. Crim. & Criminology 150 (1995), in which the authors "claimed that civilians use guns in self-defense against offenders up to 2.5 million times each year. This figure has been widely used by the National Rifle Association and by gun advocates."

Unfortunately (for Lott and the NRA), National Crime Victimization surveys conducted by the Census Bureau for the Bureau of Justice Statistics show that victims use guns against offenders just 65,000 times per year. Predictably, Kleck and Gertz dismiss the validity of the official surveys, while Lott doesn't even mention them.


http://www.ntu.edu.au/faculties/lba/schools/Law/apl/blog/stories/liberties/12.htm


http://www.jhsph.edu/bin/u/c/myths.pdf

http://www.saf.org/journal/11McClurg.pdf”

“i'd like to repeat my ealier, ignored questions to prosecuter and nigal.

do you think a 12 year old should be able to go out and get a dozen uzi's at walmart?

should i be able to buy two thousand 50 cal. machine guns without even registering this info somewhere?

if your answer is no to either of these questions, you do indeed believe in some gun control.
if you believe in any control you are a liberal, gun/forefather/consitution hating commie who should leave the country ASAP thank you very much.”

“Who the hell said they should be able to?”

“Gun nuts, both for and against, are just that way. Ain't america fun?”

“so you do believe in gun control nigal?

what a pinko commie liberal you are.

why would you believe in any gun control? the more guns, the better. that's what all the real stats prove, right prosecuter?

i thought you said that while conservatives use stats and facts, liberals use stupid rhetoric, nigal.”