Terrorism/Gun Control/War

“Trying to lump all forms of gun control as an excuse for any form of gun control is idiotic.

This discussion wasn't about registering guns or allowing anyone to use them. It was about the quantity of guns in people's possessions, thus it was about eliminating them from ordinary law abiding citizen's hands. The extrapolate that out to all forms of gun control is nutz.”

“Jesus jumpin’ Christ on a cracker…

Trying to have an intelligent discussion with you is as frustrating as a hairlip trying to order worstershire sauce at a steak house. You are back on the rhetoric bandwagon again by trying to say it’s either one extreme or the other. Being for gun rights does NOT mean being for unrestricted or unregulated ownership. I believe we have the right to drive a car. This doesn’t mean kids should be driving.

You’re slipping back into dipshltdom.”

“what annoys me sarge, is that anyone who is pro-gun control (in any capacity) is seen as the enemy by so many card carrying NRA guys.

as i've said before, somewhere between michael moore and ted nugent lies a sane individual.”

“umm, no nigal.

from past experience, i'm guessing that we're both pretty much in agreement on the gun control scale.

when i first brought up idea that there can and should be some moderation, and that both sides have studies, facts, experts, you went into your "liberals suck and use rhetoric while conservatives rock" bullschit.
last edited: 12/15/05 9:53:49 AM”

“Hobbit was off by 100s of miles.

I didn't read the whole thread, but Violin is absolutely right about the faulty math.

2112 deaths out of 160,000 is 1320 per 100,000. over 22 months. Assuming Hobbit was looking for annual statistics we divide by 1.83 (22 months divided by 12) we get 721 deaths per 100,000 and see Hobbit's math was worse than faulty.”

“US Vile Bear also produces fractured Stats to prove a point, he compares the risk of accidental gun deaths to accidental deaths involving doctors.

Aside from the logic, the comparison is faulty because he ignoreds intentional gun deaths.... the major factor in gun dangerousness.

Of course, he also ignores the fact that the life saving procedures the doctors were involved with in most of these deaths are inherently dangerous.

Lastly, as someone else pointed out - we have no comparison between lives saved by doctors vs. lives saved by guns.
last edited: 12/15/05 9:57:49 AM”

“Then you missed the post where he said he started the thread as a joke. LOL!”

“well yeah, it is a joke, but it's a joke designed to point a finger and shout, 'silly libbies' rather like SS does ALL the time.”

“what annoys me sarge, is that anyone who is pro-gun control (in any capacity) is seen as the enemy by so many card carrying NRA guys.

I understand your point, but disagree. I think the vocal pro-gun control card is generally people who want to eliminate guns. I realize there are some exceptions, but often if you look at the ones trying to do a "little" legislation also in reality are people who want to outlaw guns.”

“Well I suppose I did, but looking back through the threads he seemed to be defending them until his case unravelled. He also never acknowledged his numbers were wrong - perhaps he just thought the conclusion was a joke.

“Wow, a gun advocate uses stats and the leftist uses rhetoric. Big surprise.”
Nigal
4:10:47 PM
12/14/05
ignore this user
“VioLiN, you know I never apply myself... the worst you can accuse me of is a wee bit of plagiarism.

Nigal my man, you are indeed wise. Politicians and criminals both prefer an unarmed victim.”
hobbit
4:12:11 PM
12/14/05”

“well yeah, it is a joke, but it's a joke designed to point a finger and shout, 'silly libbies' rather like SS does ALL the time.”
Y2
10:57:31 AM

that's becuase ALL libbies are stupid, hate our country, spit on our veterans, and hate babies, free speach, and god.

but i guess that's ok cause ALL conservatives are stupid and hate the world, minorities, peace, and god.

but that's understandable because ALL the TTers like SS, sarge, mutt, violin, USA, and BB who use such generalazations ALL the time are stupid and smell and have itty bitty peenises.”

“Good point Sacco!!!!

Hardly anyone in America would think you can elimintate guns - they'll always be a big part of American life. There shoud be some attempt made to keep them out of the hands of criminals though.”

““Guns have also never been a significant factor in UK life.”
Y2
5:49:51 PM

Yeah, but what about long bows???”

“Sacko, you are the only one dealing with extremes.”

“Depending on where in D.C. one lives the odds are either much higher or much lower of getting blasted.”

“what annoys me sarge, is that anyone who is pro-gun control (in any capacity) is seen as the enemy by so many card carrying NRA guys.

I understand your point, but disagree. I think the vocal pro-gun control card is generally people who want to eliminate guns. I realize there are some exceptions, but often if you look at the ones trying to do a "little" legislation also in reality are people who want to outlaw guns.”
Sarge
11:04:47 AM

from my experience my point is valid. do you ever hang out much with any NRA types?

that's just an honest question, cause i see this attitude a lot. I'm a hunter, so some of my friends are hunters and we chat, ofcourse. I'm also on a couple of "outdoorsman" forums. i don't even go on some of them anymore b/c the political crap is far worse than TT, except it's 99% conservative, kill all liberals, every single dumocrat wants to steal my gun type stuff.
it just gets really old.”

“Washington DC has the highest crime rate of any state (or substitute state in this case). They also have some of the strictest gun control laws and no death penalty.

But we can expect crime to be high when all the heads of the government are in one city. LOL!”

“3 pages and still no valid reason for gun control. Remember, the 2nd Amendment guarantees all others.”

“So why do you see the need to throw all of us in one lump then (I would never do this)? Why apply the behavior of others on other boards to us here (I never do it)? Why not simply ask where people stand than trying to twist words and put words in our mouths (I do this)? Or not get into the discussion at all (I never do this)?

You make Baby Jesus cry sacco (I do this too but only cause I masturbate). :(...”

“sacco - I know many NRA types, but don't talk about guns with them as much as you do, so maybe you know better how they react to certain laws. I do hear it discussed often on my local talk radio and maybe they act differently on there, I don't know. I just haven't seen what you are describing, but I'll defer to your experience.”

“you're right nigal, my bad.
it was you who said that both sides have stats and experts, and that both sides have there extreme nutcases.

it was me who said liberals only use rhetoric unlike conservatives.

dude, the reason i used those hypothetical extremes was to support my position that (almost)everyone believes in some gun control and the extremes are nuts.

sorry you missed my point.”

“man. we're like 2 monkeys trying to phuck a football today nigal.

i give up.

sarge, stop it, ya dickwad, you're throwing me off ;)”

“Nigal - much of that crime is gang related though. Rather than changing the gun laws there there needs to be a serious attempt to tackle the gang problem.
There's more factors that come into play than that. New York City has tight gun laws and yet their crime rate has fallen substantially due in part to Rudi's zero tolerance and the huge expansion in police numbers. There's also been a rise in prosperity in many of the boroughs outside of manhatten though.

The NRA has just shifted the agenda - rather than tackling the problem it's successfully lobbied the cause of.... 'problem with guns, there's no problem, they're as safe anything', more people die from goldfish bites, should we ban goldfish'.
Rather like our own resident on message boy Prosecutor, they seek to label anyone who thinks kids shooting each other might be a problem as a 'gun hater'.
last edited: 12/15/05 10:35:32 AM”

“ditto what Y2 said, but in a more insulting way.

seriously, that is exactly the point i was trying to make, i just can't seem to communicate today.”

“Nigal - in DC is particualr you're seeing a shift in crime patterns. Becasue of the gentrification of large parts of DC, yuppies moving in, you're seeing the crime problem shifting out to the Md burbs. Prince George's County saw more murders than DC this year I think, and it's a new record total. This change in crime is not reflected by the different gun laws in MD and the district.”

“John Lott? Don't you mean Mary Rosh?

Hahahahahaha!”

“We gonna get CCW in Wisconsin soon. Can't wait.”

“Sacco, we can stop the football phucking real quick if you stop taking what I say and run away with it to something I DIDN'T say. That's a pet peeve of mine.

OK, your turn on Spalding and I'll keep an eye out. LOL!”

“I was way harsh on ya there. Sorry. Let's not try and shift the facts around Y2. DC is a frickin' mess.
last edited: 12/15/05 11:15:26 AM”

“Parts of it yeah Nigal, much of it is incredibly prosperous and crime free. It's improved imesurably since Barry has gone. A lot of the problems it faces are from not being able to raise it's own money, not having a vote, it's police force needing to tackle normal city issues, as well as providing secrity for the nation's capital and all the events that go on in DC.”

“Sacco, we can stop the football phucking real quick if you stop taking what I say and run away with it to something I DIDN'T say. That's a pet peeve of mine.

OK, your turn on Spalding and I'll keep an eye out. LOL!”
Nigal
12:10:37 PM


nigal, i could say the exact same thing to you. since i honestly was not trying twist your words, i'll assume you were not either.
let's just call it a wash; a misscommunication.

but for the record, you were the one who brought it up to a different level. don't call me a phucking liberal. THAT is a pet peeve of mine.
{/sarcasm}

and BTW, dude, i think i popped ms. spalding. sorry!”

“Damn, come on guys. The whole gun controle thing is, like, so 11 o'clock this morning. Sheesh!”

“hey, i was at my office x-mas party all afternoon.

i think i need another beer. tomorrow looks like nasty weather. think i'll call in.”

“Good discussion folks..... I teetered between posting this in fuego and general, mainly because it wasn't intended to spark a battle, only to amuse. Please tell me you really didn't believe that I think we should pull out of Washington immediately? I mean honestly, shouldn't we establish some form of stable government there before we pull out?”

“I don't know whether to start with right or left, right, le..........”

“Bob Dylan on XM talk radio???????”

“SILLY LIBBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
*pointing finger and laughing*








;-)”