Terrorism/Gun Control/War

“Interesting Thought:

If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months,and a total of 2,112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.

That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.

Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington.”

“You have applied faulty logic, poor math skills and denigrated the great personal risk our soldiers are asked to bear.”

“While I agree with the crux of your post Hobbit we do have to keep in mind that not every brave soldier lost in Iraq was shot. It would be interesting to see how many of the total were lost to IEDs. Having said that though I encourage every single American to take on the fight for their rights and to buy and legally carry a concealed weapon.”

““You have applied faulty logic, poor math skills and denigrated the great personal risk our soldiers are asked to bear.”
VioLiN

Like that's ever stopped the left from having an opinion.”

“Wow, a gun advocate uses stats and the leftist uses rhetoric. Big surprise.”

“VioLiN, you know I never apply myself... the worst you can accuse me of is a wee bit of plagiarism.

Nigal my man, you are indeed wise. Politicians and criminals both prefer an unarmed victim.”

“I may be applying for my CCW permit shortly.”

“Yes they do. I'm starting a slow process of softening my wife up to buying a hand gun ($500+) so I can partake of my great state's wise decision to allow her citizens the right to carry concealed. G-d bless Ohio.”

“Hobbit, maybe you want to include the dead Iraqis in your total. Also consider than many of those who died were wearing body armour, or in armoured vehicles.
What's the stats for the number wounded in Iraq?

Also who is calling for an immediate withdrawl as compared to a structured sensible withdrawal? You want young Americans to be risking their lives there forever. But then I guess American needs some bases left there for the next 20 or 30 years.”

““I may be applying for my CCW permit shortly.”

This could make your arbitration meetings more interesting if you whip out your gat and shoot it in the air like Saddom Hussain. LOL!”

“Wow, a gun advocate uses stats and the america-hater leftist uses rhetoric. Big surprise.

+1”

“i believe the figure i heard the other day for number of iraqi civilians killed so far is 30,000”

“Nigal, remember our conversation this morn about my fav drunk. Her boyfriend is in an outlaw biker club. This has me thinking ccw more and more.”

“A gun advocate uses made up/wrong stats. Big surprise.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=594867”

“how many were killed in dresden?”

“hiroshima?”

“nagasaki?”

“the battle of britain?”

“war is heck.”

“lots and lots”

““lots and lots”

precisely”

“hobbit, ive read tolkien, and you sir, are no hobbit”

“I agree Birch - and it should only be undertaken as the last possible resort, not as a policy or strategic decision.”

“he is too tall.”

“does he have big feet though.”

“as well as thinks nothing like a hobbit”

“I doubt that US policy or strategy has been to kill civilians. I may be wrong but, but I have spoken with quite a few soldiers who served in Iraq and they never mentioned it. I heard lamentations of stupid rules of engagement however.”

“hobbits hated war and would have hated guns. this guy should change his name to sauron, or maybe saruman”

“I think our soldiers go way above and beyond the call to minimize "collateral damage", possibly to the point of unduly risking themselves. I think this occurs less in Iraq lately though.”

“I wasn't implying that Birch - I was questioning the reasons for going there in the first place.”

“Sorry about the misunderstanding.”

“I don't question the committment and effort of those being asked to risk their own lives in Iraq, just the desicions made that put them in that situation.
last edited: 12/14/05 4:31:45 PM”

“I love it when anti-war nuts act like we should go into battle with folding chairs, a carton of cigarettes and a pot of coffee as if we can sit down with these folks and talk things out.”

“(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is

700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians

per year are 120,000.

(C) Accidental deaths per physician is

0.171. Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of

Health Human Services.



(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.

is 80,000,000. (Yes, that's 80 million..)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths

per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths

per gun owner is .000188. Statistics courtesy of FBI.


So, statistically, doctors are approximately

9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT
ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.”

“ok, now do the statistics for lives saved by doctors vs lives saved by guns”

“About one every 13 second.

According to the National Self Defense Survey conducted by Florida State University criminologists in 1994, the rate of Defensive Gun Uses can be projected nationwide to approximately 2.5 million per year -- one Defensive Gun Use every 13 seconds.

Among 15.7% of gun defenders interviewed nationwide during The National Self Defense Survey, the defender believed that someone "almost certainly" would have died had the gun not been used for protection -- a life saved by a privately held gun about once every 1.3 minutes. (In another 14.2% cases, the defender believed someone "probably" would have died if the gun hadn't been used in defense.)

In 83.5% of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or used force first -- disproving the myth that having a gun available for defense wouldn't make any difference.

In 91.7% of these incidents the defensive use of a gun did not wound or kill the criminal attacker (and the gun defense wouldn't be called "newsworthy" by newspaper or TV news editors). In 64.2% of these gun-defense cases, the police learned of the defense, which means that the media could also find out and report on them if they chose to.

In 73.4% of these gun-defense incidents, the attacker was a stranger to the intended victim. (Defenses against a family member or intimate were rare -- well under 10%.) This disproves the myth that a gun kept for defense will most likely be used against a family member or someone you love.

In over half of these gun defense incidents, the defender was facing two or more attackers -- and three or more attackers in over a quarter of these cases. (No means of defense other than a firearm -- martial arts, pepper spray, or stun guns -- gives a potential victim a decent chance of getting away uninjured when facing multiple attackers.)

In 79.7% of these gun defenses, the defender used a concealable handgun. A quarter of the gun defenses occured in places away from the defender's home.

Source: "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, in The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, Volume 86, Number 1, Fall, 1995”

“Florida State University is the NRA? The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law too?

What is it with liberals? Is it some type of chemical reaction inside their brains that when they hear something they don't like they turn into a retarded howler monkey?

Once again...stats vs. rhetoric.
last edited: 12/14/05 5:29:35 PM”

“ok, for every time a gun is used legally for self defence, it is used 22 times for criminal, suicidal or unitentional ways.”

“It's like a seatbelt. Just because one person didn't get saved by a seatbelt doesn't mean we should take themn out of cars.”

“the presence of a gun triples the risk of a homicide in the home”

“Nigal, I don't think us antiwar people are saying we should be shooting the Iraqis with nerf bullets (although it could be an amusing sport), I think we are saying that going to war in Iraq was uncalled for and that we should have never gone. War is a dirty thing and so many seem to think it is a sterile undertaking. We "shock and awe" and then they throw flowers at us.

So now Bush says all the intelligence was wrong, but that is okay because "Saddam was a threat and the American people, and the world is better off because he is no longer in power." Using this mentality why did we not invade North Korea? Kim is a wacko selling arms to anyone that has cash. He has threatened our allies, and the US, and he has an advance nuclear program.

If we are going to go to war we need to have more than a couple shady documents and a grudge. If we are going to go to war we need to be ready to destroy a nation. When has any occupying force opposed by the locals ever been successful?

Birch, you mention Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden and then state “I doubt that US policy or strategy has been to kill civilians.” It might be policy but it is war. We declared war on Iraq and then expect a sterile extrication of the “bad guys”. They had an interview on the radio of a soldier who was in command of a team that was clearing out insurgents from a section of a village. He stated how many insurgents they caught and how many civilians they “interviewed”. The reported asked the solder how he knew an insurgent from a civilian. The solder said insurgents were males from the age of 15 to 45. The rest are civilians. Well I guess policy is heavily dependent on definitions.”

“the presence of a gun in the home miltiplies the chance of a suicide by five times.”

“Besides, we can simply look at those countries that have gone before us and had strict gun control to see how things might go here. Take Britain, firearm offenses there are up 40% from 4,903 in 1997 to 6,843 in 2000 (source: Sunday Times). They had far, far fewer guns in their country when they stripped their citizens of their firearms. Can you imagine what the wild west of America would be like? I shudder to think about it.

The Josephson Institute of Ethics revealed that 14% of all high school students in America had carried a weapon to school in the last year. Yowza! But according to the British Youth Justice Board 26% of teens had carried weapons to school.”

“Blaming death on a gun is like me blaming my keyboard for bad spelling.

for more info on Britain's failed gun contol policies go here:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/Britain.pdf
last edited: 12/14/05 5:46:21 PM”

“When a gun is in the home, domestic violence attacks are 12 times morelikely to be deadly.”

“Nigal - do you know how weak a position you are when using the UK as an example with me? ;o)

They are such BS stats. 80% of POLICE officers don't want to be armed in Britain.
last edited: 12/14/05 5:49:30 PM”

“Guns have also never been a significant factor in UK life.”

“handguns were banned when a 'gun nut' went on a rampage in a shcool and killed 15 toddlers.”

“UK public opinion overwhelmingly supports handgun bans.”