Ultralite? - a Gear Thread- OMG!

“OK, we all know hindsight is 20/20, so here's my gear / Ultralight plan assessment, y'all chime in please.

I began thinking a couple years ago... "OK, I'm getting a little older, but I LOOOVVVE backpacking, how can I continue doing it as long as possible?

Well... the answer seemed to be "go ultralight"... there's lots of new technology / new products on the market that will allow you to reduce your packweight, hike more comfortably, yadda yadda yadda.

So, I buy a new pack (Granite Gear Vapor Trail), new bag (MH Phantom), etc. etc. Good gear, not knocking that at all.

THEN, I think I went too far. I started listening to people saying I didn't really need a pair of Hiking BOOTS, I just needed a pair of "trail-runner" kinds of shoes. Hmmm. So... bought a pair a couple weeks ago, and this weekend, the weather here was horrible, gusting wind, rain, etc., so I decided to load up my pack, put on my trail runners & hike locally along the river for a few hours to see how everything worked out.

1. I hate the low-rise trailrunners. Whether or not they are "waterproof" is irrelevent, mud / water "kicked up" the back of my legs & ran down into my shoes. YUUCK. I also hiked over a lot of rocky areas... wet rocks in the rain = slippery... I missed not having the ankle support real hiking boots offer.

2. My pack sucked. I needed to cover it w a rain-parka, but didn't, everything inside got wet :(. Yeah, OK, My BAd, but still... if it wasn't a "pansy" backpack :)!

3. I feel / think I am a lot more "well prepared" when I have (1) boots (2) a REAL backpack (I usually carry an Arcteryx Bora) vs a flimsy-looking GG VP (yeah, I know it's been OK in the past, I just don't feel "confident" such a flimsy-looking piece of gear is going to protect my stuff!

So... bottom line is, (IMHO), if you want to backpack into your older years, STAY IN SHAPE! The HE11 with the light-weight crap that saves you .5 oz, either you're in shape enough to go backpacking, or you're not.

I LOVE my old gear... Arcteyrx pack, Bibler I tent in winter, etc, I'm still "reasonable" in pack weight, for my next winter trip I'm at 35 lbs for everything except my snow shovel & sled,not sure yet wheher I'm dragging my sled or just putting on my pack & heading out.

What say you? I'm especially interested in what you "older" BP'ers think!”

“Amen, brother wanderer. However, I do find myself being more selective on what is "necessary" compared to a luxury.

I also find myself with more discipline in not carrying luxuries.”

“Wimp! ;-)”

“Amen, brother Chili!

I have always been a somewhat lazy #&%!$, I only carry what I need.

Thanks for the response!”

“My Granite Gear Vapor Trail is my heavy pack.
I was using a GoLite Breeze.
You'll get my trail runners when you pull them off my cold dead feet.”

“Hell, if we were all the same, it would be a little boring at the gear store, don't you think?”

“SS, I guess that would be great if you only BP'ed in wussy areas... why don't you head out West, we'll get your sorry backside up into the Sierra, but bring your crampons & bible, you'll need them compared to that flat-land cr#p y'all call "backpacking"!

(intended humor here, brother, don't put a contract out on me!)”

“I've been out West.
Wind River Range
Rocky Mountains

Both were with the Vapor Trail & trailrunners.

http://community.webshots.com/album/84313610lQgPCq
http://community.webshots.com/album/84313778ZmJymI
http://community.webshots.com/album/84313836GuwqpY

http://community.webshots.com/album/177499272MRgDOs
last edited: 12/20/05 6:41:22 PM”

“SS, I was trying to be a funny, smart-a$$, no offense intended.”

“None, taken, LOL.”

“I think the key thing for me was when Henry Shires came out with his TarpTent.
With so much savings in weight there, my pack and lightweight shoes works well.

My Western Mountaineering Ultralite 20 degree down bag helped also. ;-)”

“My pack is getting heavier with time, but that's mostly due to more photo gear. I like sturdy gear... I hike with Asolo 535 leather boots and usually a Gregory Whitney backpack, old style, the heavy duty ones, as well as an ArcTeryx Bora 95. Not at the same time though. If I didn't carry so much media around, I could get into going semi-lightweight and just carrying a nice digital Canon Powershot type point and shoot camera, a tarp, and a lightweight bag. The hiking is more enjoyable that way. But it is my duty to shoot the crap out of the wilderness with my camera and video gear, so I'm an ox, a mule, a llama mama, a beast of burden, what have you.”

“A few other light things:

http://www.datasync.com/~wksmith/newdesign.html
Homemade Alcohol Cookkit

Frogg Toggs rainsuit

GoLite Coal Coat (keeps me warm down to around 30)

I usually carry few clothing items. Just long underwear top & bottom, extra set of briefs, fleece gloves if it's going to be freezing, fleece hat, two extra pairs of socks....

I now carry a ProLite 4 3/4 pad and lite chair kit.

Water is in a Platy with drinking tube and a pop bottle or two.”

“I am most certainly not "anti-progress", I enjoy and appreciate better, lighter-weight products. I just think sometimes the pendulum swings a little too far, and we all get caught up in it (at least I will admit I did!). Bottom-line for me is I lean toward "tried & true", even if it weighs a little more. "Experimenting" with some critical piece of gear thet I find doesn't fit my needs isa not my idea of fun!

So many variables here, of course. One for me to consider is that I very often solo BP - so I don't want to "experiment" with somethiong crucial to me when I'm all by my lonesome @ 12,000 ft., 100 miles from nowhere :)”

“I carry (if you count my going out west gear) about 60 lbs 4 of it being the bear keg and 11 of it being photograpghy equipment. So take that out and I'd be at 45 lbs. What I'm looking to trim back on is:
1. extra cloths
2. get rid of that bear keg and get a ursack
3. find lighter food other than mountain house.

As far as main gear goes I love my REI Quarter dome (and I can't get much lighter) I love my Gregory Palisades pack and my TNF Cats Meow.
I guess I could go with a lighter sleeping pad vs my Prolite 3 but if you wake up already sore what good will the lighter load do ya. I find it more important to get a good night's rest.

Last bit I guess I could dump would the the MSR Mini Water works and get a Miox water purifier.
last edited: 12/20/05 7:40:46 PM”

“Bad knees and ankles make for a lighter pack. I was three days in the Gila hiking at around 10,000 feet with a pack weight of about 23 lbs. And in rainy weather. It wasn't too cold however. I used a Osprey Aether 45 (no longer made), a bivy, a piece of sil tarp, rebagged the food to ziplocks, and a Lafuma bag that weighed a little over a pound, and my insul mat pad.
Did have springs available which made water hauling less. I do wear hiking boots, not enough support in trail runners for me.”

“Wanderer, I agree with you. Whatever load you are carrying you have to be at least in reasonable condition to have a good time backpacking. The older you get the more important it is, if only to help prevent injuries. Being older and out of shape and going hiking up and down mountains is asking for trouble in the form of overuse injuries that can take a year to heal. Even if you are in great shape you will still be more at risk for an overuse injury just from age alone. You aren't going to heal in a week or two like you would at 20 years old.”

“I can't imagine carrying my old packs....yuck! 3 lb sleeping bag? No way! 7 lb pack? Not! 3 lb sleeping pad? AGH! 6 lb tent? Yikes!
Yet I still hike in full hiking boots, sleep on a full pad, have a toasty warm bag, and have a backpack with a full suspension. I just shopped very very carefully ;-)Hiking light needn't be pricey or a bad decision-if you do it slowly and weigh out your decisions :-)”

“plus as you hike more you learn just what you need and more importantly what you don't....”

“I have an older style Kelty Super Tioga external and my pack weight is about 45 lbs. I like my comforts. I hike with Merrel Chameleon hiking shoes with Mountain Gear over the calf gaiters to keep crap outa my shoes. I hike in lightweight joggin suit with UnderArmor 'coldgear' underwear if needed. If its really nasty out I put on some cheapo,lightweight, GoreTex camo hunting boots I bought at WallyWorld (they have held up good). Good socks a must = SmartWool”

“I think what is reasonable is for the person to decide. I having some problems (degenerated discs and recovering from 5 herniated discs) I am looking to change a little bit, I had already lightened up my system. I need to take the weight off my shoulders. I will have to change my shoulder straps somehow. Light weight hiking has already helped me.

I agree Sarbar.”

“Tango, do you have "load lifter" straps on your pack?? They take just about all the weight off your shoulders.”

“My stuff is what I consider "reasonable" weight, I've just given up on what I call the "extreme" weight-cutting ideas / gear.

None of my gear is "old time" heavy, it's reasonable. My Arcteryx pack is about 5 lbs+, but the comfort / suspension it offers over the Vapor Trail, for only a little over 2 lbs difference, is well worth it to me, it makes carrying 30 lbs a lot easier. That's one of my examples. My bags are all reasonable weights, my 32 deg bag is 2 lbs, my 20 deg bag is 40 oz., my 0 deg winter bag is 4 lbs, etc. I carry a Bivy Sack in summer, it's only 2 lbs, I chuckle at folks with their "3 season" 5 lb. tents!

In my original post I was referring to what I call the "extremist" attempts at reducing pack weight. As has been said, be comfortable, not excessive, in what you carry.

My point was if whether or not I go backp[acking is the diff between whether or not I am comfortable carrying a 30 lb pack vs a 20 lb pack, for that (overall) minimal difference in weight maybe the best course is to exercise a little more & be in better condition, not try to "extend" yourself if you're not in the proper shape.

Everything is relative... this was meant to be more of a philosophical sorta thread, not a "how much does YOUR toothbrush weigh" kind of thread.”

“Yes, I want to put all the weight on my hips and just stabilize with the straps. I think, I'll have to move them up on the pack and have them come down to the front of the hip belt like suspenders. I've always had a little problem with my left arm going numb. Maybe I just have to look for a pack that has the straps higher and try to adjust the load lifters a little tighter. Make sense?”

“I go to the store and buy stuff I like. I've compared weight on only a few items and none of my big items like my pack, my luxuries tent, or my boots.

I have vasque clarion gtx boots. It's the second generation for me. This last pair I bought after trying on every other boot at REI and Hudson Trail Whatever. I beat the crap out of them and they protect my feet well.

I have no idea how much they weigh. I like them, I need them.

I have an Orion 2 person AST (Name? LOL!). Big. I like it. I use even when I'm solo. Weight? Don't care

I have a gregory whitney 5400. It was the best fit. Weight? See above.

And no, I'm not in my 20's.
last edited: 12/20/05 9:13:14 PM”

“I tried the lightweight hiking shoes but I just prefer my heavy clunky leather boots. My total packweight is around 25 - 30 lbs for 3 season camping and 35 or 36 lbs. for winter trips. I don't always use high end gear but I have always been comfortable on the trail.

I guess it goes back to the "hike your own hike" agenda.

Oh one other question. What do you consider an "older hiker"? I'm pushing 40 but I don't feel 40. I try to work out 3 - 4 days per week for about 30 - 45 minutes per workout. I'm not in top shape but if you saw some of the yahoos I work with, you'd think I was Lance Armstrong.
last edited: 12/20/05 9:26:30 PM”

“With the Vapor trail, I find I gotta keep it under 20llbs, and pack it reasonably carefully to get everying in there nice and tight. Then it's the comfiest pack I own.
Trail runners. They're my prefered footwear, but is depends on the conditions. If it's gonna be really rocky then I want, more than anything, a more rigid sole to stop me feeling every lump and bump.
I think most people are probably lightweight with a little ultralight thrown in.
Oh, and making sure the stuff stays dry is the number one priority for me. Can make the difference between a fun trip and hypothermia.

When it starts getting colder and my gear heavier then I switch things to a ArcTeryx needle pack, which is not heavy at 4llbs, but is pretty damn waterproof, indestructable, and has a full-on suspension system.”

“That's kinda' what I mean Tango, weight isn't everything. For some reason, the suspension system on my Arcteryx pack makes carrying 30 lbs in it feel the same as if I was carrying 20 in the Granite Gear. Not saying the GG is a bad pack, it's not, it's just that absolute weight isn't everything. Also, like Bearmagnet, I am very comfy in my boots, my current ones are Asolo, not even sure how much they weigh, but they fit well & feel good while I'm hiking, give me plenty of support, so to me they're good boots! My previous ones, which I wore out after (I'm guessing) about 350 hard trail miles, were Salomon Mountain X, many called them "waffle stompers", but they fit like a glove, weere 100% waterproof & I had absolute confidence in them to never fail in any situation, unfortunately they don't make them anymore of I'd have purchased another pair, weight be damned :(”

“I'm too poor to have more than 1tent/pack/boots. Please send me all your extra/unwanted gear, K?

Thanks.”

“What do you need? Send me your size & address, I have to downsize my gear closet. I have extra $$#^ that's taking up space.”

“I have to say, that when a gear thread does pop up on here, you get some of the most informed responses around.”

“Downsize?????? Are you crazy?

1. Got any womens packs? Boots?
2. I'm an 8 in Vasque.............a 10 1/2 in DC.


LMAO! I kill me! :D”

“I'm with you on the Vapor Trail, Y2, I like mine a lot as a day-pack. I carry more than most on day-hikes, always have my "Ten Essentials", etc., I get carried away w the safety / emergency supplies thing, so my day-pack weight can often reach 15 lbs or so.”

“Cloudwalker, I think you can consider someone age 50 or more an older hiker. My reasoning is because bone loss in men begins at around age 40 to 45 and loss of muscle mass begins sooner and increases after age 50. Strength training can delay the loss of muscle mass and keep bones strong, but you can't expect to heal very fast at middle age or recover like you did at 20 to 30.”

“I have to get rid of my Golite Trek, not enough padding on the hip belt. I am going to look for a new one. I still wear boots. I tried to switch boots but I bought 2 other types no way! Someone on here suggested McHale packs but OMG they are like $700.00 I'd have to be a very good girl all year long for Santa to bring me something like that! I have an old Camptrails It's over 5 pound though so I'd be adding alot of weight. Sheesh!”

“Tango, I bought my Kelty Super Tioga at a garage sale for 20 bucks. I put my own load lifter straps on it by attaching them to the top crossover on the frame and to the shoulder straps at the D-rings with minibiners, works fine and also provides stabilization (made em with one-inch strap and adjusters). Plus, I ordered a new hipbelt for a newer model that fits my size frame. It's a lot beefier than the cheesy belt the pack came with.
last edited: 12/20/05 10:47:13 PM”

“My heavy packlist. It got down to around 24 that night and I was actually had to unzip a couple of times because I was too hot. I wore my 100wt and coal parka to bed. My Megalight has 2oz of overfill.

http://home.earthlink.net/~deoredx/gearlist/pinhoti_Dec05.txt”

“Thanks Chappy. Do you have any pics of what you did? I'd be interested in seeing it.

I love down stuff. Down jackets and sleeping bags and WM bags are great!”

“Wanderer - I never did go for the trail runners. I like my boots. I took 10 lbs out of my pack over the last two years, but am still around 30-35 lbs for a summer weekend hike (with bear canister, electronics and water).”

“Tango, go to pictures and view new albums, I put pics of my loadlifter make up in there.”

“RichB - isn't it true that with a good exercise program muscle mass reduction and bone loss really aren't an issue until way past 50? I think the biggest problem with aging is the loss of aerobic capacity.”

“I cut my pack from 45 lbs. to 23 lbs. for a 2-nighter, but I did it gradually over 3 years. The key is to get everything inside the pack lighter before you downsize/lighten the pack itself. And the boots. You can't lighten the boots and pack first or you'll be in pain and injure yourself.”

“My dog wrecked my ultralighting. I have to carry extra stuff even when she carries her pack. I have to take the tent rather than the tarp to keep her from wandering in the night and “visiting” others in camp (READ: going over to Tarabulls tarp and going head first into her bag with her).”

“(READ: going over to Tarabulls tarp and going head first into her bag with her).

I have a bad habit of trying to do that as well.”

“For me, the size of the pack was more important than weight. Most of my backpacking involves rock scrambling, so I like to use a smaller pack that allows for more upper body movement. As a result of the smaller pack, my pack weight went down. I’m not exactly sure what my pack weight is because I’ve never weighed my gear. I’ve been using a Golite Race as my main backpack for the past 3 years and have been fairly happy with it. Unfortunately the material that the pack is made of (Sil nylon) is breaking down due to sunlight. I purchased a GG Vapor Trail this past October, but haven’t gotten a chance to use it yet. Footwear, I like to use a mid weight boot with full gaiter to keep the mud and rocks out.”

““(READ: going over to Tarabulls tarp and going head first into her bag with her).

I have a bad habit of trying to do that as well.”

It's partly Tara's fault too. If she has a tent she always unzips it for Honey to come on in. LOL!”

“Zack, I have always held that bulk is more important than weight.”

““Zack, I have always held that bulk is more important than weight.”
Nigal
10:31:20 AM
12/21/05

Physics, more specifically all work-energy principles state otherwise.”

“I was expressing my own preference. I wasn't trying to knock the earth off it's axis by bending physical laws. LOL!”

“Is Nigal using phunny physics?”