"Intelligent Design" & Public Schools

“There are policies that try to keep the upper class from sucking us dry.

These policies are not terribly effective and are not socialism.

Middle of the road policies that try to balance power are not socialist.

It doesn't have to be one(fascist) or the other(socialist/communist).

Let's keep the wheels out of the ditch.

And please, stop calling your fellow Americans traitor.
last edited: 3/07/06 1:43:34 PM”

“What specific policies would be socialism in your mind then MarkO, since you seem to have a unique definition?

Heavy taxation is not? Tremendous welfare states are not?

34% of Pennsylvania's budget goes to Welfare. You don't think that's socialism???”

“Newsflash for you MarkO. The definition of "socialism" isn't learned in one book from ages ago. The definition I use is the one based on reality, not theory.”

“I agree with MarkO! Damnit I need new backpacking gear, there needs to be a government program for that...or a program to help me hike the AT. LOL

Socialisim is not pervading the country? I am sorry but everytime we ask MOMMY government to do something for us there is a bill that will never be marked PAID IN FULL. I am giggling myself silly at YALE and the other leftists Uberhighschools. THey are mad becuase the US govt says they must allow recruiters (LOL) HEY YOU TOOK THE MONEY, NOW BE THE GOOD #&%!$ YOU ARE (LOL)>”

“We don't have people fighting, and making progress, to gain control of enough seats and support to create a national healthcare system?
last edited: 3/07/06 1:52:12 PM”

“"34% of Pennsylvania's budget goes to Welfare. You don't think that's socialism???"

I think its a dang shame.

If these people had a decent public education(oops, that's "socialism"!) and decent jobs there would be less need and people would not need help.

This country is headed for corporatism/fascism with too much power in the hands of the capital class.

How many times have we heard, "We are only responsible to our share holders, not to the community in which we operate and from which we extract wealth."

Those are roughly the words of John W. Garrett in 1870, chair of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, at the time of the railroad workers' riots in "Mob Town"(Baltimore).

Abuse by the capital class lays the groundwork for communism and gives rise to truely socialist policy and I for one do not want to see any of that.
last edited: 3/07/06 1:56:22 PM”

“MarkO - If you can find examples where some people promote capitalistic ideas, that does NOTHING to argue the point at hand - that socialists are infiltrating our country.”

“sheep likes these dolts belong in a petting zoo.”

“BB - in character with the offtopic generalistic personal insults. Nothing new.”

“Maybe we need a purge like Stalin or Joe Bob McCarthy, huh Sarge??

Yeah XL, some of these "socialist" programs like public safety are a real drag on the economy.

People ought to be able to put out their own fires and police their own neighborhoods, ie, pack heat everybody!!!”

“MarkO - so ... your argument so far is that they are not socialist because they are good for the country??”

“actually policing neighborhoods is a facist idea.

true socialists believe that once everybody got used to sharing everything we'd all get along. no crime, no police req'd.

imagine no possession...”

“Socialism is an "ism", like a religion, with dictates.

Democratic legislative process in the public interest is something that is hashed out in a public forum by elected representatives of the people.

Are you saying that is "socialism"??

And we can hope to "keep the money-changers out of the temple" of democracy.

Oops, the U.S. Capitol is Bribery City!!”

“Oh-oh-oh, sa-a-acco!!

(from the same album)”

“What I am saying is that the results of many of those hashed out democratic processes are socialistic in nature - and that many of the people who are involved in hashing out public policy regularly promote socialistic concepts. Now, are you going to answer the question?? What specific policies would be socialism in your mind then MarkO, since you seem to have a unique definition?”

“la la lalalalah, lahh la la la laaah


(from the "other" socialists anthem, the smurfs)”

“MarkO - You seem to be arguing that I have stated that the United States is a perfect socialistic society. I have not argued that. Let's stick to the debate at hand, shall we?”

“Okay the Police and Fire services answer to someone...lets talk the IRS, Public Schools, Medicare and most GOVERNMENT programs. There is no responsibility. Don't believe me watch the blithering incompetence in the administration of any FREE MONEY program.
The opposite of Socialisim is not Anarchy, it is Freedom.
Police and Fire are part of the normal operations of government,.
Can someone establish what Fascisim and Socilisim are for the sake of this argument. I know the terminology is thrown around by pseudo intellectuals...and I know the real definitions, but lets set a baseline.”

“Sarge, what ever you choose to call these policies, you are afraid of progress.

And.........America continues to wallow along with a growing underclass.

Many good policies can be labelled "socialist" and they are by fraidy cats like you.

Social disruption continues with all the ill effects on society, partly because of hardheads like you who are afeared of anything that smells the least bit like "socialism".”

“Sarge, what ever you choose to call these policies, you are afraid of progress.

Progress or change? I don't like change that is in the wrong direction. Taking away people's incentive to work hard and to be productive is the wrong direction.

And.........America continues to wallow along with a growing underclass.

An underclass, which because of capitalism, is wealthier than many other countries upper or mid-class.

Many good policies can be labelled "socialist" and they are by fraidy cats like you.

See above re: "progress".

Social disruption continues with all the ill effects on society, partly because of hardheads like you who are afeared of anything that smells the least bit like "socialism".

Now that your name-calling is on pause, perhaps you could answer my question. What specific policies would be socialism in your mind then MarkO, since you seem to have a unique definition?”

““MarkO - You seem to be arguing that I have stated that the United States is a perfect socialistic society. I have not argued that. Let's stick to the debate at hand, shall we?”

Oh, you nut!!

I never said anything even remotely like that.

Stick to the debate???

#&%!$ no, I grow weary of arguing with a brick.”

“I'll be back later MarkO. It would be nice if you could answer the question by my return in a couple hours.”

“I never said anything even remotely like that. - MarkO

Democratic legislative process in the public interest is something that is hashed out in a public forum by elected representatives of the people.

Are you saying that is "socialism"?? - MarkO

I never said the process was complete. I said we are being "infiltrated", which means the process is in progress.



last edited: 3/07/06 2:24:35 PM”

“socialism is exaclty anarchy XL.
a peaceful anarchy where everybody shares everything.

the ussr was never a socialist state, neither is china, cuba or any other state.

don't confuse soviet communsim with true socialism.”

“I am so sick of this "true socialism" crap.

"True socialism" as written by Marx is just theory.

Let's stick to reality ... and what we all know is socialism --- the systematic levelling of the wealth between the classes.”

“my definitions for XL

facists- dickheads who want to control everyone and everything.

socialists- ignorant hippy treehuggers who think we can all hold hands and get along sharing everying equally.”

“"Democratic legislative process in the public interest is something that is hashed out in a public forum by elected representatives of the people."

YOU FORGOT THIS PART!!

"And we can hope to "keep the money-changers out of the temple" of democracy."

"I never said the process was complete. I said we are being "infiltrated", which means the process is in progress."

So you are saying that democracy is socialism, huh??

That is paranoid nonsense.

See the definition of "infiltrate".

You certainly did say "we are being infiltrated" and you are stone wrong!

Stop calling Americans traitor because they don't share your fascist dream.”

“Leave the hippies out of this dog and pony boy!!!

Huggin' trees has about as much to do with socialism as humpin' sheep!!”

“I am so sick of this "true socialism" crap.

"True socialism" as written by Marx is just theory.

Let's stick to reality ... and what we all know is socialism --- the systematic levelling of the wealth between the classes.”
Sarge
3:26:18 PM

i'm sick of the socialists = stalinist crap.

sarge, if you write about a theory called sargism, (your theory has nothing to do with harming anyone)and i kill a bunch of people and call myself a sargist, does that now mean sargism= murder?”

“Yes.”

“Leave the hippies out of this dog and pony boy!!!

MarkO

fine. it's 4 o'clock anywho, so i'm going home.hmmph.”

“Me too......coincedence.......or conspiracy????”

“sarge, if you write about a theory called sargism, (your theory has nothing to do with harming anyone)and i kill a bunch of people and call myself a sargist, does that now mean sargism= murder? - sacco

I agree completely with you sacco that it should not be that way. But it is. The definition of socialism has changed over time, although in a perfect world, it would not. Neither one of us is going to change that - and enough people realize that when we speak of socialism we're referring to government programs designed to spread the wealth, so that's the term I use. Life is what it is. This is exactly, by the way, why I strongly reject gay marriages. I don't believe "marriage" is between a man and a woman. I don't want the definition changed. At this point in history, it hasn't changed, but people are working hard to change it. It's not right. It's too late for the word "socialism". The definition has changed.”

“why do i feel like luke skywalker all the sudden? :)”

“Because you kissed your sister?”

“like you wouldn't if she looked like lea”

“.... grab those cinnabons .... *grrrr* ....”

“For those who missed it

this past 8 weeks, The John Ankerberg Show, which I receive on the Daystar TV Network

aired a 1/2 hour debate each week between 2 well known Young Earthers from Back to Genesis, Ken Hamm and his sidekick, VS 2 well known Ancient Creationists, Hugh Ross from Reasons to Believe and prominent theologian Walter Kaiser?

Of course, no one's mind was changed and no one gave an inch.”

“Stop changing the subject, lonesurveyor. This thread is about socialism.”

“Now Sarge, this thread is about ID

Young or Ancient as written in the Bible

or other source of Design.

Freedom and freewill do not necassarily conflict with group cooperation.”

“I've seen Hamm speak in person. He sucked. I disagree with most of his views.”

“Anyone see the article in Science News this week re: the legal progress (or lack thereof) of shoehorning so-called 'intelligent design' into public school curricula? The authors described how the arguments evolve (ha-ha) as previous tactics fail... one after the other.

The only question is... What are they going to call it next time?”

“The definition of "socialism" isn't learned in one book from ages ago. The definition I use is the one based on reality, not theory.”Sarge
2:46:54 PM
3/07/06

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't- till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"

"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them - particularly verbs: they're the proudest - adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs - however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

'Would you tell me, please,' said Alice, 'what that means?'

'Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. 'I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

'That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

'When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'I always pay it extra.'

'Oh!' said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark.

'Ah, you should see 'em come round me of a Saturday night,' Humpty Dumpty went on, wagging his head gravely from side to side, 'for to get their wages, you know.'

(Alice didn't venture to ask what he paid them with; so you see I can't tell you.)

'You seem very clever at explaining words, Sir' said Alice. 'Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem called "Jabberwocky"?'

'Let's hear it,' said Humpty Dumpty. 'I can explain all the poems that ever were invented just yet.'”

“fantasy is a fun way to distort reality”

“pedxing - Ironically, it is YOU (or whoever chooses to use an old definition of socialism) who is changing the meaning. The meaning is how it is used today. Not as it once was.”

“Well in one school we managed to put more women's toilets than mens...since the women have a slower turn around time....I though that was pretty intelligent design in a public school.”

“Sarge: Where did I ever offer a definition of socialism?

BTW: Do you see unionism as inherently socialist? Is that part of socialism you oppose?
last edited: 3/09/06 9:31:20 AM”

“unionism is not inherently socialist - unionism as used and promoted today is socialist

your comical story with humpty dumpty directed to me implies that I am trying to use "my own" definition of socialism as if I am in the wrong - so it would follow that you take the opposing view - which is to use the older (unused) definition”

“After reading the previous....I think Humpty Jumped....”