"Intelligent Design" & Public Schools

““Science is the use of theory to discover truth.

...classic IDer trying to redefine the term "Science" to meet your fundamentalist political agenda.” - Jimmy san

I did not redefine anything. I gave a property of science. A property is not a definition. Perhaps you disagree with that property? Science doesn't use theories to discover truth pitts? Is that what you believe?

PS pitts - I noticed you made this about me again. You've really sunk low. Perhaps you've been hanging around children too much at your job? They're beginning to rub off on you. Would you accept if they spoke to you like that in the classroom, or one another, during a debate? Maybe you would ...

Regardless, using your term "fundamentalist political agenda" in a condescending manner like that is supposed to what? offend me? I am offended. I'm offended that you "teach" young minds. God help them all.”

“All your science class are belong to us.”

“you being a moron is a theory too.”

“In theory, I'd say yes.”

“You've convinced me Buddha Bear. Your ability to debate is reMarkOble.”

“It's the same old IDer trick... play with language and their blunt but veiled fundamentalist religion to sustain a fictitious "debate" rather than outright prove their position. They think that so long as the debate is alive so is their theory... and for good reason. Their "theory" only stands as long as they can contrast it against evolution. Their efforts are purely a marketing campaign to "criticize evolution while at the same time promoting positive alternatives". I can show you where William Dembski (a leading ID proponent) put that in writing.

ID proponents claim their theory is Science but refuse to treat it like any other scientific theory. Rather than prove their position they seek to redefine the very nature of Science to make their religious square peg fit a round hole.”

“I only ask that scientists don't pick and choose when they will use their own definitions.

Your diatribe pitts is one big ad hominem, speaking of debate "tricks".”

“You know, in theory, there's no difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is.”

“Math Professor Wins a Coveted Religion Award

By DENNIS OVERBYE
Published: March 16, 2006

Continuing a recent trend in which the world's richest religion prize has
gone to scientists, John D. Barrow, a British cosmologist whose work has
explored the relationship between life and the laws of physics, was named
the winner yesterday of the 2006 Templeton Prize for progress or research
in spiritual matters.

David Karp/Associated Press

Dr. Barrow will receive the $1.4 million prize during a ceremony at
Buckingham Palace on May 3. The prize was created in 1972 by the
philanthropist Sir John Marks Templeton, who specified that its monetary
value always exceed that of the Nobel Prize. Five of the last six winners
have been scientists. Asked about this, Dr. Barrow said, "Maybe they ask
the most interesting questions."

Dr. Barrow, 53, a mathematical sciences professor at the University of
Cambridge, is best known for his work on the anthropic principle, which has
been the subject of debate in physics circles in recent years. Life as we
know it would be impossible, he and others have pointed out, if certain
constants of nature — numbers denoting the relative strengths of
fundamental forces and masses of elementary particles — had values much
different from the ones they have, leading to the appearance that the
universe was "well tuned for life," as Dr. Barrow put it.

In a news release, the prize organizers said of Dr. Barrow's work: "It has
also given theologians and philosophers inescapable questions to consider
when examining the very essence of belief, the nature of the universe, and
humanity's place in it."

Dr. Barrow is the co-author of "The Anthropic Cosmological Principle," a
primer on the subject, as well as 16 other books, more than 400 scientific
papers, and a prizewinning play, "Infinities."

Asked about his religious beliefs, Dr. Barrow said he and his family were
members of the United Reformed Church in Cambridge, which teaches "a
traditional deistic picture of the universe," he said.

Noting that Charles Darwin is buried in Westminster Abbey, Dr. Barrow said
that in contrast with the so-called culture wars in America, science and
religion had long coexisted peaceably in England. "The concept of a lawful
universe with order that can be understood and relied upon emerged largely
out of religious beliefs about the nature of God," he said.”

“I wonder if Dr.Barrow realizes that with the extension of 'infinity', he would be one of an infinite number of Dr.Barrows that authored said books and another infinite number that authored said books with only the slightest of variation? Infact that set would include an infinite number of Dr.Wheel Barrows that would be as full of it as I am.”

“Of course, he wouldn't be full of it if he wanted to separate math and religion, like others in "the so-called culture wars in America".

When you're on the left, the ad hominem is your friend. Use it often and often.
last edited: 3/22/06 12:47:09 PM”

“As I said over the last day or so,language is math and math is a parasite. Any use of language without the rules of math would quickly fall into that vast TT crevasse.”

“I believe language is a virus.”

“There is no way evolution can adequately explain the existence and traits of a poodle.”

“I believe language is a virus.

Let's keep your personal belief system out of this conversation, please. Next thing you know, you'll want this taught in our public school English classes.”

“Doesn't matter what you think. You do enjoy going in circles over semantics, yes?

bearmagent, please say it isn't so. Are you anti-semantic?”

“"There is no way evolution can adequately explain the existence and traits of a poodle."

That is the essence of science.......it does not explain everything.”

“WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO POODLES, I DEMAND AN EXPLANATION!”

“What can I say??

Poodles bite.

Why can't you get your teeth into that?”

“If we end up finding God is a naturally evolved Diety, who's right?

Sort of like the logic of - if you plan to fail, and succeed, what have you done?”

“Yes. I am an anti-semantite.”

“Math Professor Wins a Coveted Religion Award

By DENNIS OVERBYE
Published: March 16, 2006

Continuing a recent trend in which the world's richest religion prize has
gone to scientists, John D. Barrow, a British cosmologist whose work has
explored the relationship between life and the laws of physics, was named
the winner yesterday of the 2006 Templeton Prize for progress or research
in spiritual matters.

David Karp/Associated Press

Dr. Barrow will receive the $1.4 million prize during a ceremony at
Buckingham Palace on May 3. The prize was created in 1972 by the
philanthropist Sir John Marks Templeton, who specified that its monetary
value always exceed that of the Nobel Prize. Five of the last six winners
have been scientists. Asked about this, Dr. Barrow said, "Maybe they ask
the most interesting questions."

Dr. Barrow, 53, a mathematical sciences professor at the University of
Cambridge, is best known for his work on the anthropic principle, which has
been the subject of debate in physics circles in recent years. Life as we
know it would be impossible, he and others have pointed out, if certain
constants of nature — numbers denoting the relative strengths of
fundamental forces and masses of elementary particles — had values much
different from the ones they have, leading to the appearance that the
universe was "well tuned for life," as Dr. Barrow put it.

In a news release, the prize organizers said of Dr. Barrow's work: "It has
also given theologians and philosophers inescapable questions to consider
when examining the very essence of belief, the nature of the universe, and
humanity's place in it."

Dr. Barrow is the co-author of "The Anthropic Cosmological Principle," a
primer on the subject, as well as 16 other books, more than 400 scientific
papers, and a prizewinning play, "Infinities."

Asked about his religious beliefs, Dr. Barrow said he and his family were
members of the United Reformed Church in Cambridge, which teaches "a
traditional deistic picture of the universe," he said.

Noting that Charles Darwin is buried in Westminster Abbey, Dr. Barrow said
that in contrast with the so-called culture wars in America, science and
religion had long coexisted peaceably in England. "The concept of a lawful
universe with order that can be understood and relied upon emerged largely
out of religious beliefs about the nature of God," he said.””

“You should all take time to spray your keyboards with a 50% solution of hamburger repellent before the 'ATTACK OF THE KILLER WORD'.”

“.....and put a nicotine patch on both cheeks.


Boy, that oughta make ya sit tight!!
last edited: 3/22/06 2:41:35 PM”

“I know it's the wrong cheeks ,but it looks good ,AH?”

“For the buzz.......”

“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4879672.stm

Fossil animals found in Arctic Canada provide a snapshot of fish evolving into land animals, scientists say.”

“Uh huh. "Fossils" placed there by the Loony Left Conspiracy against all that is Good and Holy!”

“More scientific proof that prayer doesn't work...”

“Talking of all that is good and holy, walkin on water
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4881108.stm”

“The devil supposedly puts all these fossils in the ground to replace man’s faith in God with naturalism. Then God performs miracles that are never again repeated to reinforce faith. Makes you wonder who is really at the steering wheel in the first place…”

“The devil created god to have someone to push around and to blame for the not so fun stuff.”

“There was this 7th Day'er that use to stop by every now and then, dropping of a copy of The Watch Tower. I would invite her in and we would discuss and debate our different beliefs. She was an older woman who always had a younger gal in tow who would occasionally join in our little talks.

We were getting into a heated, but respectful debate, about the Devil and how he influences us by pretending to be something he isn't. The younger gal blurted out that he was speaking to me and trying to fool me into a path of Spirituality that wasn't the true path.

I said I had heard his voice before and I knew what he sounded like. She looked horrified and said..."see, he speaks to you and you admit it." I said of course, I just choose not to listen.....If you don't know what he sounds like, how do you know he's not speaking to you?

She went pale, started to shake, made the sign of the cross and ran back to her car. The older gal smiled and said..."Well, that's going to take some time to fix." Shook my hand, gave me a copy of The Watch Tower and left.

We had many other discussions after that, but I never saw that other gal with her again.
last edited: 4/06/06 12:14:34 AM”

“LOL!”

“LOL...steve, got to remember that. I found most "religious" types can easily be buffaloed by "humor".
Okay here is my favorite. I was listening to the "He appeared to me" crowd. You know they see the Savior in a crust of bread etc.

I am sitting there getting tired of the "PRAY FOR GOD TO GIVE YOU >>>>" crowd so I piped up and said. "Did you guys hear that Christ appeared in town last night?"
The bit and asked when and where.
"Yeah he walked into the Hilton and put three nails on the front desk and asked,"Can you guys put me up for the night?"

I am sorry but the Chaplain who told me that said,"You know God made humor too."

**** NOTE: please submit all excommunication notices to the following address*******”

“Funny! Aren't you going to smoke a turd in hell for that one,though, xl?”

“LOL @ Steve

That reminds me of when I was in college. I'd just read Soul On Ice. Eldridge Cleaver talked about the distinction between "House #&%!$s" and "Field #&%!$s" during slavery. The former were the "Uncle Tom's" kissing up to the owners and telling them they were wise and knew better and assuming an attitude of inferiority and reverence in exchange for being allowed into the Mansion. The latter never had those comforts, often felt the lash and the curses of the Master, but saw the world more clearly and maintained their integrity.

I used to get prosletizers coming to my dorm room door every Sunday Morning. To me, this was evil - "though shalt not disturb anyone on Sunday morning" was a key commendment for me.

So, when these two guys came to win my sould for Jesus at 10AM after I'd been drinking and dancing at a concert at Armadillo World Headquarters until late at night Saturday I was pissed.

So, I decided I'd prosletize them. I told them that Christians were the House #&%!$s of the world. No matter what God did to them, not matter what they had to go through - they say "Oh Master - you is wise and divine and I is a poor ignorant sinner and you know so much better than me. I know you only whuppin' me for my own good. Please please forgive me for ever considered my own desires and lemme into your mansion when it pleases you to see me die."

They left in horror. Rumor spread that I was a Satanist. A few people were afraid of me. A couple of guys from ROTC got stoned one night and came by wanting to see me do Satanic rituals. I had to put out the word that I never would choose from everything I'd heard, Satan would make a lousy imaginary friend and that I knew that - but that there would hell to pay if anyone woke me up on a weekend morning (unless she was very attractive and planned on getting naked with me.)”

“Mutt, the cool thing is you , me, or any other person is not the final judge. My Defense Counsel already paid the bill.
last edited: 4/06/06 9:45:18 AM”

“XL: That joke was in "The Crow" - cool movie. Sad that Brandon Lee died making it.
last edited: 4/06/06 9:49:53 AM”

“Scientists have discovered fossils of a 375-million-year-old fish, a large scaly creature not seen before, that they say is a long-sought missing link in the evolution of some fishes from water to a life walking on four limbs on land.

In two reports today in the journal Nature, a team of scientists led by Neil H. Shubin of the University of Chicago say they have uncovered several well-preserved skeletons of the fossil fish in sediments of former streambeds in the Canadian Arctic, 600 miles from the North Pole.

The skeletons have the fins, scales and other attributes of a giant fish, four to nine feet long. But on closer examination, the scientists found telling anatomical traits of a transitional creature, a fish that is still a fish but has changes that anticipate the emergence of land animals — and is thus a predecessor of amphibians, reptiles and dinosaurs, mammals and eventually humans.

In the fishes' forward fins, the scientists found evidence of limbs in the making. There are the beginnings of digits, proto-wrists, elbows and shoulders. The fish also had a flat skull resembling a crocodile's, a neck, ribs and other parts that were similar to four-legged land animals known as tetrapods.

Other scientists said that in addition to confirming elements of a major transition in evolution, the fossils were a powerful rebuttal to religious creationists, who have long argued that the absence of such transitional creatures are a serious weakness in Darwin's theory.

The discovery team called the fossils the most compelling examples yet of an animal that was at the cusp of the fish-tetrapod transition. The fish has been named Tiktaalik roseae, at the suggestion of elders of Canada's Nunavut Territory. Tiktaalik (pronounced tic-TAH-lick) means "large shallow water fish."

"The origin of limbs," Dr. Shubin's team wrote, "probably involved the elaboration and proliferation of features already present in the fins of fish such as Tiktaalik."
[...]
One creationist site on the Web (emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs /evid1.htm) declares that "there are no transitional forms," adding: "For example, not a single fossil with part fins, part feet has been found. And this is true between every major plant and animal kind."

Dr. Novacek responded: "We've got Archaeopteryx, an early whale that lived on land, and now this animal showing the transition from fish to tetrapod. What more do we need from the fossil record to show that the creationists are flatly wrong?"
[...]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/06/science/06fossil.html?ei=5089&en=64ed40e1dbb121e3&ex=1301976000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1144940645-6bxQA1iqfHXxPZMcMVY0cA”

“In following the fossil tracks of human evolution, scientists have for years searched for links between Australopithecus, the kin of the famous "Lucy" skeleton, and even earlier possible ancestors. Now, they think they have found some connections in Ethiopia.

An international team of paleontologists is reporting the discovery of transitional species superimposed in sediments in the neighborhood of a single site. The findings are to appear Thursday in the journal Nature.

Tim D. White, a paleontologist at the University of California, Berkeley, who was a leader of the team, and his colleagues said the 4.1-million-year-old fossils were anatomically intermediate between the earlier species Ardipithecus ramidus and the later species Australopithecus afarensis, the Lucy family. The newfound bones and teeth are the earliest remains of the most primitive Australopithecus, known as anamensis.

"This new discovery closes the gap between the fully blown australopithecines and earlier forms we call Ardipithecus," Dr. White said in a statement. "We now know where Australopithecus came from before four million years ago."
[...]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/science/12cnd-fossil.html?_r=1&oref=slogin”

“all part of The Design”

“This was designed to take millions of years so the result would be a bunch of humans that don't have a clue.”

“It took quite a designer to setup a system that would evolve at times.
last edited: 4/13/06 4:42:59 PM”

“If It's such a good designer than why is it's book so far off the mark?

BTW - nothing evolves "at times".”

“The designer is not necassarily responsible for all or possibly any of the book bearmagnet refers to.”

“LOL!

Cop out!

:p”

“It's been a while since we have seen this evil thread so here it is in full "violin illegal cut-n-paste style.


http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060515/BREAKINGNEWS/605150331
Teaching intelligent design as an alternative to evolution failed the constitutionality test in December, but is the issue going away for teachers in the classroom?

At 8 p.m., Wednesday at Florida State University, a panel will discuss the impact of the federal court ruling against the Dover, Pa. School Board's inclusion of intelligent design in its curriculum.

Exploring Dover's impact on science education will be a group of scientists, a theologian and a constitutional law expert. ”

“I ain't afraid of your Yahweh
I ain't afraid of your Allah
I ain't afraid of your Jesus
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God

I ain't afraid of your churches
I ain't afraid of your temples
I ain't afraid of your praying
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God

verse
Rise up to your higher power
Free up from fear, it will devour you
Watch out for the ego of the hour
The ones who say they know it
Are the ones who will impose it on you

I ain't afraid of your Yahweh
I ain't afraid of your Allah
I ain't afraid of your Jesus
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God

I ain't afraid of your churches
I ain't afraid of your temples
I ain't afraid of your praying
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God

verse
Rise up, and see /find/ know/ hear a higher story
Free up from the gods of war and glory
Watch out for the threats of purgatory
The spirit of the wind won’t make a killing off of sin and satan

I ain't afraid of your Bible
I ain't afraid of your Torah
I ain't afraid of your Koran
Dont let the letter of the law
Obsure the spirit of the your love--it's killing us

I ain't afraid of your Yahweh
I ain't afraid of your Allah
I ain't afraid of your Jesus
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God

I ain't afraid of your churches
I ain't afraid of your temples
I ain't afraid of your praying
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God


Money
Culture
Choices
I’m afraid of what you do in the name of your God

Sunday
Spirt
Teachers
I’m afraid of what you do in the name of your God

Sabbath
Borders
Dances
I’m afraid of what you do in the name of your God double

Children
Music
Stories
I’m afraid of what you do in the name of your God

Rise up to your higher power
Free up
Rise up to your higher power
Free up
Let's try to be highly evolved
I aint afraid”

“I thought the ID-as-science meme was pretty much thoroughly murdered. Oh well, I don't suppose the ID hucksters will ever go away.”