why commit suicde

“sorry for the dark subject but just found out a friend took his life, I miss him and don't understand it. Never saw it coming but now I am looking for answers,sorry all just thought I'd throw it out there, check back in on My lunch break
peace all”

“I spell like sheeet I see”

“More people die from suicide than from homicide.
• Suicide rates among the elderly are highest for those who are divorced or widowed.
• For young people 15-24 years old, suicide is the third leading cause of death.
• 80% of people that seek treatment for depression are treated successfully.


Some of the warning signs of suicide are:

—Talking about suicide, including a method;

—Talking about hopelessness and worthlessness;

—Suddenly being happier and calmer;

—Making unusual visits or calling people one cares about;

—Making arrangements, putting affairs in order;

—Giving things away.

If one sees the warning signs of suicide…

Begin a dialogue by asking questions. Suicidal thoughts are common with depressive illnesses and your willingness to talk about it in a nonjudgmental way can be the push a person needs to get help. Questions to ask:

“Do you ever feel so badly that you think of suicide?”

“Do you have a plan?”

“Do you know when you would do it (today, next week)?"

“Do you have access to what you would use?”

Asking these questions will allow you to determine if a friend is in immediate danger, and whether that person should get help. A suicidal person should see a doctor or psychiatrist immediately. Calling 911 or going to a hospital emergency room are valid options. Always take thoughts of or plans for suicide seriously.

Never keep another's plan for suicide a secret. Don’t worry about endangering a friendship if you truly feel a life is in danger. It's better for one to regret something you did, than something you didn't do to help a friend.

Don't try to minimize problems or shame a person into changing her mind. Your opinion of a person's situation is irrelevant. Trying to convince a person it's not that bad, or that she has everything to live for will only increase her feelings of guilt and hopelessness. Reassure her help is available, that depression is treatable, and that suicidal feelings are temporary.

If one feels the person isn't in immediate danger, acknowledge the pain as legitimate and offer to work together to get help. Make sure you follow through. This is one instance where you must be tenacious in your follow-up. Help find a doctor or a mental health professional, participate in making the first phone call, or go along to the first appointment. If you're in a position to help, don't assume that your persistence is unwanted or intrusive. Risking your feelings to help save a life is a risk worth taking.”

“Sorry for your loss, Spalpeen. I don't know why anyone chooses to take their life. In my case I always figured that if I did, it would probably be about 5 minutes before I hit the lotto, or my life was cosmically rearranged to be great. I've been through some very tough times, but always reminded myself that everything is temporary, both good times and bad. Again, I'm sorry for your loss.”

“Spal- for what it's worth, I have been through this 4 times throughout my life. Two of them close friends, two not-so-close. Funny thing is, you really never see it coming. I have known people that have talked about it and they never seem to be the ones who actually do it.

One of the two close friends, I had spoken to (long distance) three days prior. He sounded bitter and angry. Turned out he was in the process of getting jilted big-time. But, I refuse to accept that a person can take their own life based on that one item. Turned out he shot himself with a pretty big gun (forgot what kind) while on the girls' answering machine. So, to m, he was troubled beyond that. It also seems obvious to me that a lot of it was supressed and bottled up. Maybe that's part of the problem. No outlet. Not sure. Just speculating here.

The otherr friend---I found out about this through his ex-girlfriend, whom I lost touch with when he moved out to Cali. Here was a guy who was a recent military (peacetime) veteran, graduated college with honors, had some money, promise for a bright future and all the elements of a good life to follow. Took some pills, drank some wine and was found dead int he bathtub with his wrists slit. Can't figure this one, either. So, unlike my other friend, who was hitting several dead ends in his life, this one had everything going for him.

So, what conclusions am I drawing here? Not sure, except to say that this is a phenomenon that can easily go with unanswered questions. All I can say is that I feel your loss, having been in that position. I don't know where to offer any comfort in this scenario except to say that I hope they're all in a better place. Peace be with you and his family and friends.”

“I've spent quit a bit of time talking to a couple of people that attempted suicide. The one thing they both said is that there was a time in their lives that they couldn't understand how someone could consider suicide. So they were once just like you and I, not able to understand how someone could get that low. They both talked about the mental "pain" they were in constantly, and that all they could think about was ending the pain. One recovered. The other one eventually succeeded.

Myself, although the thought has crossed my mind from time to time, I think about wasting some other creep a bit more than myself. The only thing that keeps me from doing either is my religious convictions and my faith that in order to reap some greater reward, one must endure to the end.”

“Those may be valid points if you can see it coming, Prosecutor. But, from personal experience, I can tell you that it doesn't necessarily happen that way. I don't know if the "authorities" on the subject have come up with an answer to that one...”

“The warning signs that prosecutur lists are good... but not always present. Do not assume you should have seen it coming.

It may sound silly... but you might want to try reading up on depression online or in books. It may really help you understand it better.

I'm sorry for you loss, spal.”

“That's my point, Tara. You can't always treat these things right out of a text book. There's a real world out there that likes to throw a lot of curveballs!”

“Sorry for your loss spaleen.

Suicide is an inevitable result of the fall of man. Man distanced himself from God, and consequently lost the joy that is found in a relationship with Him.”

“How do you explain suicide bombers? They seem to live for a relationship with their God...

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or there is no explanation, as I cannot relate at all to that mentality. Just thought it was a curious counter-question to your point.”

“Treebeard - Good question. I was referring to the One and true God. False God's are not what is referred to in the scripture I linked to above.

Your question is coming from a perspective of "how will I create joy within myself by having a relationship with God?". The joy does not come from within ourselves, but from God Himself. The joy isn't like the joy of other joys of the world where we experience because we're being satisfied with earthly desires. This true joy is given to us by God and is not based upon our desires, but instead His desire to have a loving relationship with us.

(because of the sensitivity of this subject, if you want to discuss, we can go to fuego - sorry spaleen.)
last edited: 1/18/06 7:53:11 AM”

“I've lost two friends to suicide. I lost one due to a cheating wife and another to the IRS.”

“Thanks, Sarge. I can respect that. And thanks for keeping it in perspective for Spal's sake. I don't want to thrash his thread...”

“Sorry, Spalpeen.”

“Sorry Spalpeen, this is something that can not be understood by the friends left behind.

To me, suicide is a very selfish act. You will hurt so many people that love you.”

“Isn't that kind of like saying, "well, if you don't want to stay alive for yourself, stay alive for our (friends and family) sake?" A little myopic way of looking it, don't you think? When someone is that screwed up to the point of taking one's own life, then the problems lay a lot deeper than that...”

“The other one eventually succeeded

Hobbit


They didn't succeed. They gave in.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend Spalpeen. Sometimes the worst place to get lost in the dark is in your own head.”

“Spalpeen - I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my best friend from college to suicide. I sent him an invitation to my wedding and his mother called back to give me the news.

I do a lot of suicide risk assessments as part of my work, and review other people's suicide risk assessments as part of a side job.

Prosecutor's guide is basically sound. As Tarabull says, suicide can't be predicted - we can identify people who are at more risk than others, but a large percentage of people who commit suicide don't show signs and the vast majority of people who show signs don't even make a serious attempt. Drug and alcohol abuse or dependence are also risk factors. Some people say extremely depressed people are most at trisk when there depression lifts just a little.

In my thinking there are four main categories of situations that lead to suicide 1) extreme pain (emotional or physical) from which there seems to be no hope of relief, 2) mental illness that greatly distorts reality,
3) an loss or impending loss of identity - in which the cornerstone(s) of a person's identity seem to be lost, 4) extreme rage. One could easily come up with other very different categories (e.g. loss of hope).”

“Trouble is, people who are depressed really believe that no one loves them - that no one will really care whether they live or die. It usually is not true, but it is how they feel. Then there are those who are angry and know the act will hurt people, and do it for that reason. But for most, I think there is a disconnect with reality: "No one cares." "I can't handle this." "My life is worthless."

When you are in the pits, there is a belief that the pain, whatever pain it is, will never end, that whatever is wrong in your life will never change. Rationally, the person may know that everything changes, but at the time of the deep emotion, that rationality is lost.”

“"Suicide is an inevitable result of the fall of man. Man distanced himself from God, and consequently lost the joy that is found in a relationship with Him."

That is way too narrow, religion is only absolute for those who believe in it.

There are much deeper reasons for despair and grasping onto a supernatural solution may only mask the reality and merely put off the inevitable.”

“MarkO - I wasn't talking about "religion". I was talking about the reality of the true God. spaleen asked for opinions as to why suicide happens. I gave him mine.

There are much deeper reasons for despair and grasping onto a supernatural solution may only mask the reality and merely put off the inevitable.

Despair is caused by a lack of a right relationship with God, so if you have that, there is nothing to mask.”

“That is way too narrow, Sarge.

Despair can be caused by many things and the "gOD solution" does always work, or work for very long.

Despair can be caused by a life of abuse, physical or otherwise, by neglect or lack of proper nuture when growing, etc.”

“MarkO - If you want to debate religion with me, please start another thread. I'd love to exchange opinions on this with you. Thanks.
last edited: 1/18/06 9:57:57 AM”

“I do not want to debate religion, dude.

Having said that, religion does not cure all.

Reality is for those who can't handle religion.”

“I'm very sorry for your loss spal.
I agree with sarge...however this is not the place to debate. I can only pray for those left behind while they deal with the questions that will never be answered.”

“While I agree w/ SS that suicide is a selfish act. I don't believe that the person commiting it necessarily believes that to be true. In fact, in my experience, the person believed they were loved by friends and family but also beleived that they were a burden to those same people that loved him.

Of course, that was a complete and total distortion of reality. But, irrelevant when one is in a total state of depression.

Whatever the situation or reason, it sucks. And, I totally feel for you, spal. Keep yer chin up, buddy.”

“Don't try to figure out the why. When in the depths of depression logic as you and I know it does not exist, and suicide becomes an easy solution to a crushing pain that you think will never end. Its a state of being that you can't understand unless you've been there (hey Tom Cruise, you haven't been there).

Been there.

Sorry for the fuego remark.”

“I think there is a selfishness or at least a self-centeredness to most suicides. I think getting angry at someone who committed suicide is often natural and there is no reason to feel guilty about it.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel, or how they feel - just sharing what was true for me and for others I've known. My best friend from college killed himself and when I went back to my college town (Austin, Tx.), I find myself more full of anger at him than sadness. I guess I'd already dealt the sadness. As bad as I felt for him, I also had to face how fvcking stupid he'd been - and how mad that made me.”

“This makes me think of one awfully fine song by Lucinda Williams (both she and Emmy Lou Harris sing incredible versions of it):

Sweet Old World

See what you lost when you left this world
This sweet old world
What you lost when you left this world
This sweet old world

The breath from your own lips
The touch of fingertips
A sweet and tender kiss
The sound of a midnight train
Wearing someone’s ring
Someone calling your name
Somebody so warm
Cradled in your arm
Didn’t you think you were worth anything?

Millions of us in love
Promises made good
Your own flesh and blood
Looking for some truth
Dancing with no shoes
The beat, the rhythm, the blues
The pounding of your heart’s drum
Together with another one
Didn’t you think anyone loved you?

See what you lost when you left this world
This sweet old world
What you lost when you left this world
This sweet old world

--Lucinda Williams”

“All acts are inherently selfish. It really makes me uncomfortable to judge something like this.

I think people tend to question suicide more than anything and it frustrates people b/c you will not, can not, get an answer.


Sorry for your loss, spalpeen, and the persons loss and the persons family.”

“Hey thanks all, I feel angry, sad and pissed all at the same time, I guess I just don't get it, the service is Friday and geez what do you say. Thanks again all”

“Maybe we are all conditioned to think that suicide is so horrible... maybe just the word evokes these fealings that the person must be all screwed up. Maybe just deciding to "not play the game any longer" and allowing one's self to slip away isn't all that horrible. One of the big problems is that often they go about terminating their life in a most horrific fashion. Would we all feel so "pissed" if someone were to "do it" by lethal injection or some other neat way???
I'd be crushed if a loved one were to do this, but maybe, just maybe, knowing they went peacefully and on their own terms might someday be of comfort.”

“well it's not to me”

“Someone who was very helpful to me when I needed help took her own life, and the sense of loss, sorrow, and even anger was overwhelming. Twenty-some years later it still hurts. Ultimately, I have come to understand that I have no way of knowing the pain she felt, although I know why she felt it. She was involved with a married man who blithely announced to her that he was breaking up and staying with his wife.

You can rationalize what a friend should or should not have done, or why suicide was not worth it, but in the end it is the pain and despair that a person feels that drives them, when the pain and despair is more than they can deal with.

You never do understand, but you come to accept. That's all you can really hope to do. Suicide is, when all is said and done, a selfish act despite the amount of pain and despair one might feel.

The woman who helped me was a professional health care provider who should have been able to work her way out of her pain. She should have reached out for help. She should have understood that loss, though painful, is part of life and inevitable. But she didn't do any of that. At the time I wanted very much to get my hands on the gun store clerk who sold a desparate woman a .357 magnum and showed her how to blow her brains out. But I have come to realize it is well that I did not. I just hope he didn't ever repeat that stupid kind of sale.

I wish you peace, and can tell you it will come. For now, reaching out is probably the best thing you can do.”

“All acts are inherently selfish.
11:57:01 AM
1/18/06

First thought - I think this is a smoke screen and gets us into circular thinking. I think of someone who wants to do things with others in mind as less selfish than someone who does not.
I prefer "self-centered" because it avoids the smoke screen. Often the person who attempts suicide is so self focused that the needs and vulnerabilities of others dissappear from their view or considerations.”

“Sorry for your loss. I'm behind on reading and was reading part of the Dec Readers Digest this past weekend. There was an article in there written by someone who lost their dad to suicide. It talked about the grieving process and also actually going to a support group of other family/friends of people who committed suicide. The article might prove helpful to you. It talked about the grief, anger, guilt,.... and all of the other emotions that you are likely going through now. It basically summed up the authors conclusions once she finally allowed herself to grieve and forgive her father.

You'll be in my prayers.
last edited: 1/18/06 2:34:59 PM”

“Sorry for your loss spalpeen.

My brother committed suicide at 20 years old with his whole life in front of him. In his case there was a call for help and we all rallied around him. To no avail.

There is a physiological as well as psychological side to depression. As far as being a "selfish" act, I think that people in the throes of true clinical depression cannot see outside of their "self" far enough to accept the love and support around them.

I'm glad you can't understand spalpeen. I never have completely either. In my opinion if you find someone that truly can understand why a person would take their own life, try to help them.”

“Spalpeen, sorry for the loss, dude. Being a preacher, I could say some things that would only be from my perspective, but this certainly ain't the time......I've been there myself.....hang in there, bro.”

“prosecuter, thanks for the warning sign list...that sounds like someone I know right now.”

“I think MD assisted suicide is a good thing. I would much rather commit suicide then suffer thru a long illness. Simple & Complete. My only daughter knows & accepts my decision. She lives nearby & we (daughter, son-in-law & grandkids) spend a LOT of time together. I would not want to saddle them with a medical burden or expenses. It would be nice to leave them some inheritance. I could accept a waiting period. I believe, people tend to put too much emotion into their decisions.”

“I would say people who committ suicide feel alone, misunderstood, unloved, feel like they don't "belong" or don't "measure up", they are failures or for a completely different reason which would be if they did something that was so aweful, they couldn't live with themselves.”

“dhutch1, about having a reason or you're not being able to see a reason, it's pretty obvious that the person had what was a very big reason to them. Sometimes dispare is too overwhelming, even if the "I care about you" aspect is taken out of the equation by a show of love from friends and family.”

“Like I said, nothing makes any sense to you when you are in the middle of the depressed state. Its a chemical imbalance in your brain that changes all your inputs and trashes your logic.

Forgive and continue to enjoy your own life, spalpeen. And pray for them.”

“lipstick - I never mentioned anything about the person having a "reason". I think you are confusing my post with someone elses.”

“dhutch1, maybe I should not have read into what you said, but you said you didn't understand why your brother committed suicide, so I took that to mean you didn't understand the reason why he did it.

Also, I should have said before anything that I'm so sorry to hear that your brother committed suicide. There's nothing like an empty chair at the dinner table during the holidays (and really every day of the year).”

“I get it lippy - I meant that unless you have been in that state of mind you can never understand their reasons no matter how close you are to that person. You can only seek to get them professional help and support them through the pain. I also should have stated more clearly that if you know of someone who can truly relate to being suicidal, they probably still need support.

spalpeen - dayhiker is right. If it helps you there are many support groups around to help deal with this kind of thing.”

“dhutch1, very well put!

About support groups, my mother-in-law went to one when her 2nd husband died who she had only been married to for 4 years. She didn't go back again. Maybe the sessions can be sort of depressing if you are not truly depressed and I don't think that she was.

I think a person needs help to even go for help from a support group. Someone needs to point out that option for them and the person needs money for the sessions and live in a proximaty to them, so there are things that can easily put a person off from seeking different kinds of help, especially if they are already too depressed to go.”

“First thought - I think this is a smoke screen and gets us into circular thinking. I think of someone who wants to do things with others in mind as less selfish than someone who does not.
I prefer "self-centered" because it avoids the smoke screen. Often the person who attempts suicide is so self focused that the needs and vulnerabilities of others dissappear from their view or considerations.”
pedxing
3:22:30 PM
1/18/06

Interesting. I'm not sure there is a difference between selfish & self-centered. How about. There may be degrees but I need to stay with selfish.

Sorry, I'm a "disciple" of Dawkins.”

“Sorry for your loss. Sometimes the human soul and mind can only take so much. We have all had those down times when we try to hide how bad we feel and this can catch up with us.

Again, sorry for your loss.”