martial arts

“I have been thinking of taking up some sort of self defence type class when I get back on my feet. I have no idea what might be the best type and I'm a little afraid of paying someone to kick my butt !
Any input ???”

“daydreamer - email me if you want information. I'd be glad to help.”

“Just remember that most of those "self defense" courses (usually 4 or 6 classes) will not help you get out of trouble. Actually it can cause you even more trouble...since you'll think you can defend yourself, instead of backing down.

To be able to use some moves takes alot of time and practice. The moves have to be second nature.

It's good to take a self defense course....but you'll have to practice the moves everyday....preferably spending an hour or so each time.

A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS”

“I'd like to learn Gracie Brazilian Jujitsu but no one teaches it around here. I'm thinking of joining a gym in town and they do the kick boxing classes. No it won't make me a kick boxer but I do think I could pick up some skilz.”

“Tae Kwon Do, or Aikido....great stuff....”

“Fox labs OC spray and a sidearm. No need for martial arts!”

“I would rather leave em alive........if possible.......”

“I don't know karate, but I know crazy.”

“Anyone named "Hubcap" is likely never far from a tire iron:)”

“Daydreamer, attitude is 90% of safety. If you walk around looking scared...you are a target. If you walk around with the outward appearence that you are just waiting to make some guy a eunuch...they tend to leave you alone.
My job puts me in some VERY DANGEROUS locations at times like 2AM. Granted we start out with 5 or so firetrucks and 20 to 30 firefighters...but two hours later, it may be me alone or with one other investigator.
What I have to do is adopt an attitude. Remember most predators don't want to mess with another predator.
Next tip, three targets, Throat, "Golden Target" and the Knee. 8lbs of pressure to the side of the knee...they are out of action.
If you hit, hit "through" the target. In 17 years in the War Zones of Public Housing I have had to defend myself twice. Once an "urban outdoorsman" pulled a gun on me (it was a revolver and it was VISIBLY unloaded). The other was a knife pulled by a crack head. The first I took the gun away from and let him go with a "limp". The other dropped the knife when I reached behind my back.”

“See, that's my biggest problem. Trying to not look scary.”

“I pass too many single Women in DC who stare at the ground. No chance for an ID. Look a person in the eyes, acknowledge every person you pass.

best way to disarm them.”

“Now in a big city I fall back on Steve Martin's advice....

1. Wear torn ragged clothing, urinate on yourself and don't wash the clothes.
2. Get a beat up shopping cart with a bad wheel.
3. As you push it down the street pick up trash and put it in it...

Now if you want to carry more than $10.00 on you......”

“I train and fight MMA (mixed martial arts) - For standup and striking I train Muay Thai (thai kickboxing) 2 days a week. For ground, I train BJJ (brazillian jui jitsu) and submission grappling.

If its for self defense you need to learn full contact. The only way to put this stuff into real use is to practice it at full speed and impact. Train like you fight. In most TKD schools, you will learn a lot of ineffective bs that is of little use in real fights. I would suggest bjj if you want self defense, as most 2 person fights inevitably end up on the ground.”

“as most 2 person fights inevitably end up on the ground

Maybe in the octagon. In real life I've never had a fight last longer than one punch.

Very true what you said about TKD though.”

“Mt brother dabbled in TKD for a while but they trained him how to score points. No heal striking. Nothing dirty or effective.

I fiond it really itneresting how when the UFC first started it was more MMA (meaning many styles) but now it seems that MMA has grown into it's own style almost. I'd say the MMA fighters now are far more effective than any single disiplin style.”

“What people (including TKD instructors) don't realize is the TKD is designed to allow you to cause minimal damage to your opponent. It's designed that way on purpose. The instructor's don't realize that though and quite frankly, cause real potential harm to their students.”

“Bruce Lee once wrote: "Speed in fighting depends not just on your hands and feet in swiftness, but other attributes such as nontelegraphic moves and awareness. Speed in fighting is to hit your foe without yourself being hit. This can only be done by hours of practice and being completely fit. Speed in fighting is not good without power that goes with it."

His discipline was called "Jeet Kun Do". Very effective and difficult to defend against. The key: practice practice practice.”

“Sarge -- If you can knock someone out with a single punch great, great! But in reality, that rarely happens. Assuming I'm not sucker punched, ain't nobody going to drop me with a single punch.

The brazilian version of jui jitsu was specifically developed after analyzing what actually happened in typical street fights - vale tudo... specifically they are characterized by two people going at it and typically ending up on the ground. (Just watch any of the homemade videos floating around the net, and you will see that 9 times outta 10 it ends up on the ground.. hair pulling, head butts, etc).

TMA (traditional martial arts) were predominatly designed for war (i.e. multiple combatants), such that it would be a real bad idea to end up on the ground. BJJ developed out of a TMA to be more geared towards realistic self-defense. If you are a small dude you are not gonna stand toe to toe with some guy that outweighs you by fifty pounds -- you're just askin to get KTFO'ed. But once the ground, you can pretty much take that weight advantage away (just watch any of the Gracie fights with much larger oppponents, even those skilled in ground arts such as wrestling).”

“If you can knock someone out with a single punch great, great! But in reality, that rarely happens. Assuming I'm not sucker punched, ain't nobody going to drop me with a single punch.

I've heard that before.”

“Found a few cool Royce Gracie vids on Google. The first one is a demonstration of Brazilian Ju Jitsu used against a 15 vet of Kung Fu who had never been beaten. The second one is a highlight vid. Notice who the very first opponent is. Ken Shamrock. He gets handled very easily. He is like an anaconda. If he gets his hands on you, you are done. The position and the size of the opponent doesn’t make much difference either.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7076063312262742465&q=royce+gracie

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1345499342804240333&q=royce+gracie”

“The position and the size of the opponent doesn’t make much difference either.

I prefer fighting bigger opponents. Much easier to beat apples for apples.”

“There was a beast of a wrestler from Ohio Sate named Mark Coleman who was just huge. He would just get you on the ground and pound your brains out and knock you out in seconds. He had to fight a Mui ti fighter that stayed away from him and within two rounds Coleman was bent over with his hands on his kneses, mouth piece hanging out trying to get his breath and he tapped out while stand up there. I also saw a much smaller guy kick his lights out right across the bridge of the nose. He made the best cartoon face, swayed, and went down like a ton of bricks.

Tank Abbot is the best example of a big guy who can't fight. He can knock just about anyone out but he can't go the distance.

With the big guys you just have to have patience and let them wear themselves down.”

“"I prefer fighting bigger opponents. Much easier to beat apples for apples.”

Me too sarge. I'll stand up with anyone up 30 lbs more than me. Heavier than that, I'll take em to the ground and choke em out, even if the outweigh me by 70 or 80 lbs.

BTW, I wasn't claiming that I had a strong enough chin not to get dropped by a single punch. I was saying that there is no way somebody is getting through my guard with a SINGLE punch, such as to end a fight.”

“I wonder if this hurt? (not for the weak)”

“My advise is Judo of Tai chi.

Both styles uses the attacker's strength against himself. They are considered a "soft style' martial art.

All the other styles are hard styles and requires more physcal strentgh. They are also more a more offensive style rather then defense style.

I would stay away from Tai Kwon Do. It is a very physical style and not very useful. It is a fun practice, but I have never seen a Ultimate fighing champion who has won come from a Tai Kwon do background.”

“Yeah, the kick that KTFO'ed Coleman was by Pete Williams. The realy big guys tend to gas out real quick. That's why I know even if a much bigger guy is on top of me, all I have to do is keep from getting hit very much, and wait until he gasses out. Pin an arm or leg, buck, shrimp out, get his back put in my hooks, and start pounding on his head until I can choke him out.”

“BigPoppa -- One of the all time MMA greats, Bas Rutten came from a TKD background. He fought and won several times in the UFC, and he dominated Pankration for years. Of course his TKD was supplmented heavily with muay thai and submission grappling.

Karo Parysian a young rising star in the UFC comes from a Judo background. He pretty much takes you down whenever he wants to. His striking looks crappy, but since he can take it to the ground at will he wins.”

“hey daydreamer - for a special low price I'll show you how to disable a man with a single swift kick. If more is necessary then I'll also demonstrate the ancient technique of keys to the face followed by mace to the eyes.

One Class and you graduate.”

“My name says it all. I'm into aikijutsu, which is defensive combat.

Click on the image and scroll down for additional pictures.



We do not have to be real fast or strong, but just apply the techniques correctly. The objective is to subdue one or more attackers by applying potentially painful joint locks and/or throws. We sometimes have to modify what we do in class so as to not hurt each other.

Another branch of our parent organization is Combat Ki, shown in the fifth clip at this site. Juko Kai demonstration. Practitioners take tremendous blows to the throat, groin, and body. My instructor is the tall guy with the black beard. He is shown taking a kick and a blow to his throat.

I'll try to answer or obtain answers for any questions that you e-mail to me. Good luck.

aka nowslimmer”

“Nigal, EVER remember the Joe Theisman football hit????
Still makes me grimace when I see it

Daydreamer, I actually know a man who bought one of those pocket "shockers" he went to draw it one night for a big black guy he thought was following him.

He reached into his pocket...the next thing he knew the black guy was kneeling over him telling him he had had a seizure and to remain calm (the black guy was an undercover cop on his way home from work (LOL))”

“Yeah it looks real impressive when somebody can take a blow to the throat like that. When you train something enough and mentally prepare yourself, you can acomplish much with the body (like walking on coals, for example).

Unfortunately, when you are in a real self defense situation (or even in the ring), you don't have the luxury of mentally preparing yourself for a specific blow. As anyone who as ever fought before will tell you, combat is a fluid situation... it is constantly changing. Personally I'd rather know how to block a punch rather than be able to take one in the throat in a controlled environment.”

“BTW, I wasn't claiming that I had a strong enough chin not to get dropped by a single punch. I was saying that there is no way somebody is getting through my guard with a SINGLE punch, such as to end a fight.

That's what I thought you meant.”

“As nowslimmer knows from things I've told him offline, the strike to the neck thing is a parlor trick. I know how to do it. Anyone can learn it in seconds.”

“camelfluffer - You're right. But, if one sees the blow coming, one might be able to prepare or partial prepare to minimize what happens to one's self. What can be learned is that one can continue in spite of severe blows.

In aikijutsu we learn to block and avoid blows and to use an opponent's motion and strength against him. And we learn finishing techniques. If we can quickly and somewhat effortlessly leave the first attacker down and in severe pain, his friends will have second thoughts about continuing an attack. Our first objective, of course, is to avoid any confrontation. But, if that is not possible, "the purpose of martial arts is to end a confrontation before it escalates into a fight."”

“Yes, I almost mention you here, Sarge. I figured this would draw you away from the Fuego threads for a little while.

As I told Sarge, I presented his viewpoint to my instructor. He replied that the blows administered to him were real. And his preparation for the blows was the opposite from what Sarge suggested. About the only way we can know for sure may be for Sarge and me to take the course in Combat Ki. I do believe my instructor and classmates, but Sarge is always right! I hope you all enjoyed the clip.”

“nowslimmer - I don't mean to put you on the defensive, but it's important to distinguish between reality and fantasy when you're training people for real live combat.

I agree with your instructor in that the blows are very much real. The defense of it is what is a parlor trick.

Let's put it this way. Let's give your instructor the benefit of the doubt and it's totally on the up-and-up. Regardless, the same blow can be withstood with a simple trick. Believe who you want nowslimmer. It's your money.
last edited: 2/14/06 5:02:36 PM”

“Sarge - It may be that both techniques will work, your's and what was taught in the class. I'm willing to go with that.

I have no money in it, as I have no plans to take the course in Ki. LOL.”

“Also, nowslimmer - I presented plenty of evidence that the guy who does this is a fraud claiming to have a history which was proven false. If you want to believe that guy, a proven in court liar, fine. It's well documented he's a phoney.

I respect your courage to do what you do at your age and physical condition nowslimmer, but claims like this are dangerous. Real life ain't the movies and it's phonies like him who get people hurt.
last edited: 2/14/06 5:43:54 PM”

“Just got your last post. Fair enough nowslimmer.”

“Okay if somebody wants evidence for what you can do with BJJ, check this out. A guy with NO ARMS AND NO LEGS schooling some other dude.

http://www.truthincombat.com/HCG_NAGA.wmv”

“That's a guy you can't beat. Even if you win, you lose.”

“I happened to look at some of that stuff on the Internet earlier today, Sarge. All I uncovered were some things from the other side and none of it was very recent. At that clinic in Orlando in November or December, there was nothing fake about the techiques that Ron was teaching. And he was good. I would not enjoy going up against him.

One reference that I found was an attempt to blow up the change in the organizational structure. I previously asked my instructor, if there was a connection between the legal stuff and the change. He said that he did not think so. He said that he has seen the change coming for six years and he has been teaching accordingly, so we are up to date on the current objectives and techniques being taught. Since things were thrown out of court, it appears that both sides are claiming victory. On some of the related issues, I tend to believe that enough checkguards were in place to prevent some or all of the fraud that was claimed. And I expect that some of the things, that bothered you most, will be cleared up eventually.

BTW, I expect to have dinner with Sacharnoski at a big beach party in a couple of weeks. We in Melbourne are hosting a national clinic, mostly in aikijutsu. Ki will not be a part of it.”

“Have fun wit dat.

For those curious what we're talking about ...

http://www.ishh.net/sacharnoski.html

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1085.htm”

“I still agree with Mutt; Take a pistol defence course. Not only will they teach you to use the tool to the best of its capability, but instrution will be given on your approach to situations - inlcluding mindset and composure. I'm sure your not expecting to do some vigilante spree, but it will give you the confidence you are looking for. Check out Gunsite Ranch - started by Jeff Cooper (my sister-in-law's Greatfather) I've done reading by Cooper and he has a passion for the firearm, but respects it such that it's more then just a gun. What are other's thoughts on the subject of Concealed Carry?”

“I have learned one thing, I never want to get into a fight with any of you guys ;)

kevforprez,
I have a gun and i know how to use it :) (I'm a good shot if i do say so) but as far as i understand it I'm more likley to be providing my attacker with a weapon than defending myself.”

“David Carradine....the dancer.

From what's posted above...the consensus is that a person have to practice what he/she learned from a martial arts club/class. No short cuts about it.

My sister took a one day "self defense" course alot of years ago. It was given to her and other employees by their company. She broke a 3/4" board with her fist.....now she thinks she's capable of defending herself. She haven't practiced a single move in the last 10 years.

Personally I won't use Tae Kwon Do on the streets.....to much high kicks and too much relying on one's legs. How you train will dictate how you'll fight in a real life situation.....although some TKD practitioners are very good with their legs....but they train alot.

Another style that uses your opponent's strength is Wing Chun (Bruce Lee's first style)....It's a counter-attack style and a close-in fighting style, so there's not too much kicking....the kicks used are aimed at the legs and stomach level.”

“Yeah, it cracks me up when I see these women in the cardio kick boxing classes. Some actually seem to think that those ineffective kicks and punches would do them any good in a self-defense situation.

The only time I'll use a high kick is in the 2nd or 3rd round if I notice my opponent is getting gasssed and starting to drop his hands. As soon as I see that right hand drop below shoulder level, I'll fire off a switch kick right at his neck and head. When that shin bone hits em at 80 mph, it's like getting wacked in the head with a baseball bat. i.e. light out time. But high kicks will just get you in trouble if your opponent is fresh and prepared. It expose you just way too much (esp. in the street, where you can get easily countered with a groin kick long before your leg ever reaches them).”

“Okay I am getting it that the tried and true French tactic of "WHINING AND CRYING LIKE A BABY" is not a preferred tactic on the thread.”