Oh God....I have to vent

“Here we go again....had to leave the office early, my son has managed to do it again. This time he broke into his mother's car and took some money....$65.00. It was for...VIDEO GAMES!

So I am sitting here trying to vent the anger. I get home and theh Sheriffs Office is in my front yard. My son ended up in the back seat of the car, in bracelets. The Deputy explained he can take him in but he advises seeking help.

This is killing me. I am a Veteran Firefighter, I have spent 17 years working in Fire and Government Housing doing investigations and working with the heroes in blue.....now I have to sit here and watch my son go down the wrong path. I have to go to "intervention counseling" tomorrow so the department will know I am okay. This is a good idea and it makes sure we will keep our head in the game when lives are on the line. It is a pain getting debriefed (especially since I rarely wear briefs) and showing that this hasn't effected my judgement.

Long and short, he was released into my custody, is mother made sure the cops left before she blasted off to a HORSE show in Florida...(GOD YOU HAVE TO LOVE THE SUPPORT). At least I will be with him all weekend.

Sorry to vent, but from what I remember we may scratch each others eyes out over minutae but I am pretty sure even the trolls would come running when another TTer is hurting.”

“Good luck XL. Sounds like this kid needs some attention. Maybe you should take a break from TT for a while and focus on spending some quality time with your kid. Don't rely on your wife to do it. Not to sound preachy because I don't know your situation obviously, but from what you've been saying lately, sounds like he's missing some fathering. You sound like an awesome dad, but maybe he needs more of it.

Anyways - sorry to hear about it and good luck.”

“Sarge, I know, I try to spend a a lot of time with him, he is practically addicted to video games (they are gone now). We get out more than most, but at 16 he can be the usual sullen teenager.

The real problem is limits, I set them he will follow them but you know someone has to go to work (ME). I cannot babysit him and do my job.

This weekend we will be together pretty much 24/7 until Monday. Thanks for the advice though...at least you care. keep praying”

“keep praying

Absolutely.”

“Dang that is a tough one. My son is only 9, so he is not at the age to be a problem, yet. My older daughters were sure in trouble, however. They were in their Mother's home, and I was an every other weekend Dad. The Mom was terrible at rule setting and enforcing consequences for actions. Daughter #2 has scars on her knuckles from other girls teeth, did shoplifting, glue sniffing, fights at school, and basically flunked HS, though she graduated. As soon as she got out of HS she didn't want anyone telling her what to do and she wanted to go to college. So that meant getting her own place, which meant work. She is now a junior and works at a law office, and plans on going to law school. She is a tremendous kid and we email every day. So they can have real problems and come around and do great later. So don't give up.”

“My oldest is 6, so I don't have any first hand advice. I do have a friend that went through this. At the early signs of trouble he booked a long trip to Boundary Waters so that his son got lots of time with him, outdoors time, and team building/leadership type time. He said looking back a dozen years it was the single most important event that pulled his son back. Now, obviously we can't all book a trip to Canada, but the AT is close. I noticed your profile said GA. The weather sucks here in East AL this weekend, but a Smokies, AT, or Cumberland trip might be in order.”

“We kayak together a bunch, on the trail he get focused and we have a blast....that will come this weekend.”

“Family counselling!!!!....& lots of love....kids have these hormones raging through them and sometimes they don't know what to do.....get help NOW before he gets into bigger & worse things!!!!!!

....just my 2 cents......”

“oh and knowing who his friends are and what they are like is a biggie”

“sorry to hear about your son's actions. My firstborn disappointed me many times. As a single mother, when he got too big to discipline physically, I was forced to kick him out of the house. I felt terrible about it but I could not afford to be held accountable for his behavior any more. He is better now than he used to be, but not even close to living up to his potential. Prayers may help, but in the long run, once your children reach a certain age, there is nothing you can do to control their behavior. Better at some point to let the world teach them a lesson, and just hope that they are not mortally wounded as a result.”

“Oh yeah, and we did try counseling, psychologists, all that. It just doesn't work if the young person is not willing to change.”

“Agreed, as someone who has gone through "problems" it won't get solved until they want it to get solved....I guess I just want to know I am not alone.”

“Gosh, what a horrible burden to have on your shoulders (alone). Is there a program in your area where convicts speak to kids that are on the wrong road? It is pretty effective.

I come from the other side of the problem, I was a Deputy Sheriff for 10 years. It's great that you care, so many times when I saw the home that the jd's came from I could almost understand.

My prayers are with you good luck.”

“No advice from me (no kids) Good luck!”

“Hope you manage to turn things round XL.”

“Wish you luck Capt. Dan.”

“As the survivor of raising four kids, I sincerely feel your pain. It is a wonder all three of the boys are not in jail! You have my prayers.”

“xl, i've not been there, but can think of a couple of things i'd try.

talk with him. not to him, but with him. do not allow your anger to control the conversation. as a matter of fact, don't let it enter the conversation. wait until you're sure you can.

tell him your concerns about his actions. don't dump on him about a messy room or anything, but your major concerns. tell him things you feel/picture he is capable of. explain how his actions now will be ever so present in his future. tell him you love him. tell him why you are proud of him. tell him all the good things you feel when you're doing things together. listen to what he says. and i mean really listen. don't reply in a reflex type mode. think about what he says. tell him your thoughts about it all.

most important. don't assume he knows any of the good things yet. tell him. then tell him again later. especially the things you feel he should be proud of. tell him "if that were me, i'd be proud of ......."

good luck.

parenting is hard. we can only hope, in the end, we can really know we did our best.

i'll be thinking of you.”

“do not sound judgemental. do not preach. have a conversation.

also, should have said, don't harp on the negative. don't be afraid to mention negatives, but do it in a non-judgemental fashion. if you say them once, they'll remeber them. you need to repeat, many times throughout the time together, the good things.



have your talk while doing something you both enjoy, even if it's over a burger.

i have an 18 year old boy. we've conversed.”

“We don't know each other and likely never will, but evidently we have a little in common. I raised 2 kids by myself from the time they were 2 and 5 while pursuing a career in the Coast Guard. I had great kids, but once adolescence kicked in my son drove me nuts. I won't go into specifics here, but feel free to email me.

I'm not much for handing out advice, but one thing I will always say is don't give up on him and don't ever send the message that you are. Today he is 30 years old, very succesful in both his personal and professional life. I think if I emotionally abandoned him because he was raising hell it may have turned out different (or maybe not).

Don't be afraid to reach out for help in the community; they're lots of good folks out there. Online can only help so much.”

“I have no advice but I'm sending you my good energy and prayers and I hope things come easier to you both very soon.

"COURAGE"

"Let me harness my fears in a positive way to create strength in difficult situations.Give me a warrior's confidence to do what is right, not what is easy"”

“I feel for you XL.

I have a ten year old that I am raising myself (he visits mom every other weekend) and he's a great kid. I honestly have no trouble with him other than the usual kid stuff. What you're going through now is my biggest fear as he gets older.

What I try to do as much as I can---and it's very hard sometimes and I know I can do better---is try to be involved in most everything including helping out at school. Creating a network is a great way to have other eyes and ears, lol. We do a lot together and I plan to keep it that way, but you just never can tell. Just don't stop trying. I'm sure it's rough right now but as others have said, it may only be the teenage phase of reaching for independence---which usually comes with making bad choices. Just try to be as positive an influence as you can and surround him with others who will do the same.

(Correctly applied discipline does wonders too!)”

“XL, I think the most important thing is to tell him that you love him more than anything in the world. Be positive and try to build his confidence, express to him how much he is capable of. Try to get him to see how good life can be if he works hard and playes by the rules. It may be difficult for a teenager to see the rewards of a good life.
After telling him all the good that can come from doing it right, explain to him what happens if he doesn't. He has to know that if he commits another crime it may not be a slap on the wrist. It could lead down a road which has very little pleasure and lots of pain.
Then try to get him exposed to fun positive people like those here on Trail Talk. There may be some youth groups that have good fun in your area. Any activity that may build his confidence.

When I was a youngster most problems were handled with my Dads 2 inch leather belt. It was effective then but kids have changed. Using the strap today comes with some danger. I use it on my boys much less the last few years, they are 11 and almost 13. At 16 I would imagine a belt to have little effect. Behavior-reward or behavior loss of rights can be effective at all ages. I'm lucky to have a very supportive wife to raise my kids with. Sorry to hear his mother isn't there for you. I know everyone here hopes for God to give you the wisdom and strength to get through this.

My best friend in high school was raised by his dad while his mother lived in another state and rejected him. He had a lot of anger toward his Mom and often towards his Dad. His dad was a great dad and they and are great friends now. It was rocky at times but his dad never gave up. The love and support was always there. I was always there as well, I was a few years older but we still did everything together. Mostly hunting and fishing, we were country kids. He cursed his mom and his dad many times. I never took up for mom much but, I always did for his dad. Eventually he dropped out of high school and hit rock bottom. His dad never gave up on him. His dad explained to him that he would have to go to work to support himself if he doesn't go back to school. He didn't for a while and worked the kinds of labor jobs you can get as a 17 year old drop out. He had a minor encounter with the law once or twice. Eventually he snapped out of it got his GED and entered college. Things started to click and now he is a dentist. Never ever give up XL. My friends dad didn't and after some pain and hard work he is sucesful father himself.
You son can do it never give up. I hope the counseling goes well. Hopefully he will find positive mentors like yourself and others to lead him out of this mess.

I hope to be with you and your son out having a good time together someday. Best of luck dad.”

“Getting rid of the vid games was a good step, shows him there are consequences to his actions. Now, ground him for a good month.”

“I'm going through a "similar" thing right now with my wife's cousin's kid. I used the quotes on similar, because I don't want you to think I'm even half way pretending to put that on the same level as what you are dealing with. But, it's a troubled kid scenario at least.

This kid has NO fear of his mother (no father around at all) and he doesn't appear to fear losing his games either. He's 13 and throws tantrums like a 6 year old. The last time he threw a tantrum, I was called over to help (closest male relative), adn I took his X-Box and ALL of his toys. I took everything but books out of his room and put them in my storage room at my house. I told him he could earn the right to use some of the stuff for limited periods of time by following his mother's rules.
It has not seemed to have helped yet, a month later.

I have no idea what to do. I feel very badly because the mother struggles to make ends meet working nights at a bar, and has a daughter failing 3rd grade. She's REALLY pressed for time and again, there is no father around.


I looked into "boot camp" or "wilderness therapy" places online but they are way out of his mother's price range.

I'm thinking about taking him on a backpacking trip this weekend in the freezing cold and making him carry a lot of gear and do a lot of work to be comfortable, but I don't want to make him hate the outdoors.

Not sure what to do, but I want to help if I can.”

“Stand by your son no matter what. Sounds like he needs a lot more of your time & actual attention. Are you & his mother still together?”

“Well it has been a fun 4 hours. With his mom gone he seems to be better centered. I have found in the past that kids crave "limitations" they want to know what they can and cannot do.
I have gotten some really supportive calls from other people in my field. And it seems most of the cops who know me want to help.

I deal with an unusual situation. My son has some 'learning" problems, but then I have dylexia and in the 60's what was called hyperactivity.....the early testing put me in a "pray he gets a highschool diploma" category. Today I have a Masters Degree (LOL) I still want to meet that doctor. The reason I did so well was my mother pushed me and she didn't let me quit.

The other half....(the other technical adult) in the house kinda makes a habit of starting most references to the Learning Disabilities (there was a knot in the umbillicus when he was born so there may have been some problems).

One reason I am able to get good control is that they know I am serious about discipline. As I have told hundreds of people from youth to adult trainees, "I will never lie to you, if I tell you it will happen, it will happen."

He knows how to push the buttons to control his mom, when she gets overloaded she shuts down. I cannot recount the number of nights I have gotten home to screaming kids, catatonic spouse and nothing happening. Usually I shut the entire operation down, she goes to bed...then I learn the kids have not eaten (daughter 11 son 16) I make dinner, we sit and have a meal (their favorite is "whatchagot soup").
Then we sit down, they do studies, I promise to not intervene as long as the work.

Could I leave...yes, no question. Will I leave...let me put it this way. I was in a place in my life where the watch word of the unit was, "NEVER LEAVE A MAN BEHIND."

I will push through. Now when we are together at the farm, or even when the girls go out of town for a weekend...NO PROBLEMS. He does as he is told. If his mother is here....he knows how to overload her....

SORRY TO WHINE>”

“XL - That's a tough one. I'm sorry you've got to go through with that. Hopefully, years from now when he's living right - this will be a story about his wild days that he managed to put behind him.”

“Gosh, what a life. And I don't think this is a whine at all. Sometimes one just needs to vent to get some perspective. As you pointed out it is pretty safe here for ones that need some support. I think of us (TT'rs) like a family, we sure can be tough on one another until the shovel hits the dirt, then let the support begin! So again my prayers and thoughts are with you.”

“LOL...pedxing, you know there are people I grew up around who are still shocked with what I have done.
My Dad worships MONEY$$$$$ and he still gives me crap about the Fire part of my life. But you know what.....I love this part of the country, I love the people.

Tango, years ago in POW school we were taught the way to zone out and go to a place where we could relax. One of the neat points of backpacking and camping is I can go back to those hikes...(yes Nigal even the Flat Trail Hike) and I relax. When I am in these type of events and I have to go to sleep I close my eyes and go to the trail. I go to the campfires....and I sleep VERRY WELL.”

“Hang in there. I have three teen boys. Good hearts but tons of testosterone.

If you want advice , I know some things that have worked for me.”

“teens are tough to handle. hang in there and always let him know you care and are there for him.

good luck, it ain't easy.”

“XL, I don't have any kids, so my advice may not be the best, but here goes...

Don't sound off on the negitive, remind him of the positive things he's done and the rewards, not just the physicle(sp) but mental too.
I don't know how you feel about church, but try a church youth group, they really know how to focus on the positive help kids need and it comming from there peers, so it's easier for him to understand and relate. I can't tell you how many times I've herd in my church, the "if it wasn't for my friend getting me into youth group I wouldn't be here now" story. Give it a try, it might also help with time you can't make for your son too.
My teenage years wern't perfect either, no matter how many people told me what was going to happen, I didn't listen. As do most kids. And the more you repeat, the more he will push away.
The convict idea is a good one.
My prayers are with you and your family.”

“XL,
Some may remember here that I was having a teen meltdown around Christmas/New Years. She (17) ran away (to a friends house & I knew where she was for a couple days) and proclaimed she wanted to be emancipated yadayadayada. Huge fights and many tears from mom and daughter. My husband just stood by with a confused look on his face wondering what happened to his family when he blinked.
I am happy to say I have my beloved daughter back. Yes, she did just get caught lying and suffered restriction. But she is speaking to me again and helping around the house. What happened? She was failing math and she had never failed anything before. The semester has ended and all of the stress and pressure lifted.
Why am I telling you this? Let's just say if I had been divorced I would have sent her to her fathers. It was a very bad time...but with continued love and support, when the pain point (math) went away, my child came back to me. Hang in there...I will think of you.
last edited: 2/16/06 12:02:44 AM”

“Take one day at a time. No parent is perfect. No way to parent is right. Every child is different. Too much of anything isn't good. Take one day at a time & plug along. Treat each day as if it will be your last.

Get (you) someone to talk to.”

“Thanks gang...I had to drop off last night becuase I got a call from a pretty good friend who just wanted to chat. We discussed the problems, did some theoretical dirt kicking, and he closed with this comment.
"Don't worry, in ten or so years when he has caught the game and is taking off successfully, I will remind you of these times and let you know it was all worth while."

"When we look back at life the plan and trail we followed becomes clear. The problem is that we have to live life from the other direction. It is often hardest to see the real value of life while we are in the middle of it."”

“Well, I just got off the phone with my doc and scheduled my vasectomy. LOL!

I wouldn’t think to give you advice Dan but just know that I do understand what you’re going through and my thoughts are with you.”

“Don't worry, in ten or so years when he has caught the game and is taking off successfully, I will remind you of these times and let you know it was all worth while.

Don't count on it.

The POW school training sounds interesting. Teen angst can be an awful thing, learning how to go someplace else in your mind could be useful.”

“HEY! I "...go someplace else in [my] mind..." all the time........LOL. Of course, older age has a lot to do with that ;(”

“Interesting...
I feel sorry for you. I have a very similar (on the surface) situation. 4 teenagers, the youngest seems intent on making me crazy.
There's some good advice here. I wish I had some, other than to echo Nigal's solution.”

“Wow, sorry to hear of your troubles. Getting to the microscopic truth of what is making him act out this way is going to be a lot of hard work. Once you get to that, you can work on the healing process. I think everyone here has some great ideas to help you get to that truth. And I think you are a great dad for not giving up on him.

He will be fine, and so will you.
last edited: 2/16/06 11:52:24 AM”

“He will be fine, and so will you

personally, I'd worry - better to worry now, than take the chance he continues with this behaviour.

This time he broke into his mother's car and took some money....$65.00. It was for...VIDEO GAMES!

I may have missed the age of your son, but breaking into a vehicle is a felony offense - once 18, there's no gettin' that off your record. No one is "fine" with a felony record - try gettin' a job.”

“XL, I think your son will be okay. Your wife is the one that needs help. Her problems telescope into problems for the kids, and they learn from her. It snowballs.”

“Twig, he is 16 and knows now that it really is a felony,

Tree, I would help his mother but you have to want to get help first. She pretty much does as she wants. When pressure gets too much, she will take a vacation (via the doctors and mother's little helper) or jsut crawl into the bed and cover her head.

Nigal, I saw a t-shirt on a baby that broke me up it said " All Daddy wanted was a B*&%w J*b.”

“xl, are you a TT'er with a new name..or did i miss you as being new?
And did his mom press charges?, call the cops to scare him, or call the cops before she figured out it was him?”

“TT'er with a new name
He was Lt Dan”

“Opie....I called the cops...had to put a stop to his stupidity.”