How cheap is your local Gasoline?

“"Move out of teh city and try living without a car."

We lived the country life in Vermont for five years.............been there, done that.

Vehicles: car, truck and snowplow truck were a necessity and a pain in the arse.

"The US is huge...."

Ya don't say?

Canada is even BIGGER.”

“thats true, I am not Canadian, nor do I know much about its population, but is most of its population situated in its southern regions or are they equally scattered across the whole country?

The reason I ask is that I have this poster on my office wall called Earth at Night and Canada is mostly dark with the exception of its southern region along the border with the US rising more northernly as you go further west.
last edited: 5/07/08 10:41:23 AM”

“MarkO,
As "poorly designed and made" as the diesel tempo was, my dad had one that died after 300,000 miles. That's many miles for a four cylinder car. My diesel lynx died when I left the oil cap off and drove it for a month. (I was 17 and was being good...checking my oil)It had 110 some odd thousand. It cracks me up how quick you are to jump into the old standby "it was American made junk". What do you really know about what was made back then?

Hyway, the emmissions are horrible in diesel cars. My pop worked on emissions for Ca for years. Started w/ cars and ended w/ trucks. Tough stuff.”

“Well hush my mouth, Sass!

I'm pretty sure that modern diesels are much cleaner than the "junk" from the '80s.

>8^]”

“If you notice the writeups about the new diesels, it will mention the goal of a 50 state diesel car. The 5 states hyway mentioned are the distinction. These new ones meet the standard, but no other info seems available. Do they meet the minimum or do they kick it's butt? If you read the writeups at fueleconomy.gov it always lists the particulate matter.”

“The point is still that diesel cars were sold in America, people didn't want them and the car companies stopped trying to sell them here. Yet, you still want to blame car makers for not selling something most people don't want. They weren't very popular, many states have emission laws that discourage ownership of them, people's memories of them are that they stink, blow black smoke, are loud, etc. They may be better now than they were, but until gas prices spiked like they have Car makers had no reason to want to spend money trying to create a market where one didn't exist.

It exists now, so expect to see them being sold soon.”

“Here's a listing out the 05 diesels: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?hiddenField=Fuel&atvtype=diesel&year=2005

Note that most get 1 out of 10, with 10 being the best on air pollution.

I'm interested in the newer generation of these vehicles but it seems that the green team touting these conveniently is forgetting about air pollution. Why do you hate the air?”

“Doesn't diesel cost gas price plus diesel efficency?”

“OK, Interstate!
But why do you carry a torch for the U.S. auto makers?
And why do you hate the air?

Like I said, I hated diesel in the '80s since I had to put up with the stink for a living.

But now it seems there is a chance to drive a car that does not put money into the pockets of thieves, terrorists, speculators, dictators, theocratic dictators, genocidal maniacs(Sudan) and neo-fascists(Russia).......Petroleum Industry.

I still like the idea of burning home-grown American fuel...............just not ethanol.”

“123.50 and climbing fast. Market down over 100 in 5 minutes.

Guy filled up this morning across from me at the pump. $115 to fill up his truck. I liked the bumper sticker he had..."Buy a gun, piss off a liberal." I thought of a good one for a liberal..."Buy a hybred, piss off a neo-con."”

“Nat.gas stocks are the only things still up. got to click from sell to buy. I love lots of red numbers.hehe”

“Paid $3.54 this morning for a quarter tank, and if I'da had my store card, it'd be a nickel cheaper per gal(mebbe it was a dime cheaper, I'll look better next time cause I'll dang sure have my card).

Just spoke to an Italian friend and after having seen this thread, asked her what they're paying for gas in N Italy. Said that per liter was something like E1.45 or something near there, so after I plugged the numbers fer math, she's paying in American bux $7.92 per gallon.”

“American bux $7.92 per gallon.”
naked ape
2:16:55 PM

The metric system sure sucks. It makes you pay more for gas 8)”

“LOL dh, I her'dat!”

“I know you're used to seeing it in liters, but when I've been places that list prices in local currency and liters it just looks weird.”

“marko, the only thing I have said about US car makers is that japan trounced their butts in the 80's. Every thing else I have said is about car makers in general. I don't think very highly of US car makers. Chrysler makes crappy cars and I will never buy another one.

But it makes no since to complain about US car makers when we have the ability to buy cars from car makers from across the globe right here in small town USA.”

“You really have to blame the whole collusive gang of big 3, big oil, big insurance, big road builders and on and on. The idle rich stockholders in these monsters have had a nice smooth ride for decades on the cheap. beepbeep”

“you can't blame any of them. They just give us what we want. Even before their were interstates and suburban sprawl (pre WWII) there was 3 cars for every 4 homes in America. (of course, now theirs at least 3 cars for every home :)) We have always wanted bigger and better cars.”

“Something I've been curious about is why is diesel now so much higher than gas lately when traditionally it was the other way around?
last edited: 5/07/08 1:36:22 PM”

“3.77 dayton oh”

“I'm not "complaining" about U.S. car makers, just tellin' it like it is.
Those corporations don't exactly "give us what we want", they try to sell what they want to sell, ie: what makes the most profit........more power to 'em, if they can succeed that way.
They also offer cheap stuff for that end of the market but the sweetest sales are the BIGGUNS. Sure, they are responsible only to their share holders and to make the most profit for them.
I've never seen ANY car company brag about how small a car's engine is in commercials.
My Scion for instance has a 1.5 liter with a screamin' 108 horsepower.........just my style.

I asked Ford for a diesel Escape and they told me to go talk to Salebored.
That's like tellin' me to go pound sand in a rat hole.

We have a Ford Escape and a Scion xB.......utility and economy.......also, interior room on both counts.

We got rid of the gas-slurpin' mini vans.”

“i agree marko...the companies could easily make a brand new car that costs $4K or $5K but why would they when people are just fine spending $20K+

sometimes i miss my first car, an escort pony...no passenger side mirror, carburetor instead of fuel injection, no radio, no power steering, 4 speed...no frills at all...just a 1 liter 4 cylinder with 4 tires”

“Doesn't diesel cost gas price plus diesel efficency? sale

Dayhiker, that's why. You pay the same per mile.
Hyway, it's what the pigs wanted, Like I've said before, 'when a gallon of gas is more than minimum wage per hour, all the illigants will move home'. bumpers of chrome.”

“"Something I've been curious about is why is diesel now so much higher than gas lately when traditionally it was the other way around?"

It sure seems that diesel prices are higher in an effort to take away the advantage of the inherent increase in efficiency of diesel engines so that the cost per mile is the same as with gasoline engines.
Somebody does not want Americans to drive diesels.

I'm just sayin'.......from an observer's point of view.......
If diesels proliferate in the U.S. the domestic market for vegetable oil diesel fuel could take off and cut into petroleum sales.

Diesel fuel is considerably cheaper to refine, since it is produced at the lower end of the cracking process along with heating oil.
There is no excuse for raising the price above that of gasoline, and that increase is causing truck transport prices to rise and so goes food and everything else.
The petro-industry claims that the price increase is due to more demand in Europe.
Yeah, right.

Algae Biodiesel
http://www.solixbiofuels.com/”

“But now it seems there is a chance to drive a car that does not put money into the pockets of thieves, terrorists, speculators, dictators, theocratic dictators, genocidal maniacs(Sudan) and neo-fascists(Russia).......Petroleum Industry.

Oops, I forgot Despots!!”

“But there is a world food shortage right now. I heard on NPR where the last 3 years we've had a food deficit and have been literally eating into reserves.”

“Gasoline was higher in West Virginia than here in Philly. It went from $3.65 on a Monday to $3.75 on a Tuesday. Every station in Elkins went up at once. It was cheaper at little Riverton in North Fork Valley. Elkins is usually significantly lower than Philly, but more costly than in the Cumberland-Keyser area.”

“I know that petro diesel has particulate exhaust that are said to nest in alveoli. (you sound like a skeptic)

Does vegetable oil fuel discharge the same sort of particles?

Marko, I dont know if bio diesel is as dirty as petro-diesel. But bio really isnt a large scale viable option. Its causes the use of ag/food land to be redirected towards no food use(and as someone mentioned, food production is down world wide). To see the damage in that look at corn prices and their side effects today. I have seen quite a bit about the algae idea but from what I have read its far far away from production.

I think these things all show potential but the problem is that they will only nibble at the use of oil.

A far more realistic option is hybrids (better than todays) and electric. It can and will be done. As battery technology improves so does the electric car. Electricity be it solar, wind geothermal or hydro or coal is universally available and by far is the most effecient .about the most potential energy squeezed from petrol via an internal combustion engine is about 27%, there are electric motors in use today that are over 98% efficient.

Ultimately this will change when we as end users stop talking and modify our behaviour.
last edited: 5/07/08 5:00:29 PM”

“Gas went up to $3.65 a gal today. Up 9 cents today.”

“we are at 3.85 for the cheap stuff here.”

“I just bought it for 3.55 and its not even the cheap place. I was filling up my bike and didn't think the savings on 2 1/2 gallons was worth driving an extra 2 miles :)”

“I know that petro diesel has particulate exhaust that are said to nest in alveoli. (you sound like a skeptic)
birch

Skeptical of what?

The petro-diesel particles create an effect like black lung.

Anyone who follows the news has surely heard that the current food shortages have more to do with drought and other factors than the production of biodiesel fuel.

Increases in food prices are mainly from the dramatic rise in petroleum prices and the cost of transport.

While bio diesel may not be able to be a large scale option, it is an option that is large enough to allow some locales to be energy independent. And people will do as they please, Brazil is an example.
Even though Brazil's production of sugar ethanol may not seem wise, it is happening.

The best sources of diesel fuel are canola/rapeseed and algae and sunflower(off the top of my head).
Production of these crops is not going to effect the price of corn or rice.

Hybrid engines and electric and biodiesel and other alternatives are coming and people will develop them as they see fit.
There is no stopping them, except for interference by oil companies and governments that are in the pocket of the petroleum industry.

There is no ONE thing that will supplant the consumption of petroleum.”

“Biofuel crops will supplant pot fields after TaTa Motors starts building mini Landrover and Jaguars.”

“Yo BEAR!!! Hope all is well ole friend, I been meanin' ta give you a hollar and a thanky.

Oh dayhiker, that's something else I asked my friend, the cost of diesel, she said it still a good bit lower cost than regular unleaded. I forgot to mention that earlier.”

“It's up to $3.79 here. Still doesn't cost me a dime. :)”

“I sure wish some corporation would come out and help me to decide which conspiracy theory to believe since only a relative few people think for themselves. LMAO at the past few days' posts.”

“Oh enlighten us, wise one.”

“Diesel cost more these days because we forced the removal of sulfer from the fuel so we get less fuel per barrel then we use to. We also cant import diesel because of the sulfer issue as well.

Bio fuels cut into the production of food simply because there is only a finite amount of crop land. Every acre planted to raised fuel means one less acre planted to raise food...

There is not a real food shortage going on so much as the cost of food has risen beyond what the poor can really afford.”

“Can't they eat cake? Not the yellow stuff, that's a different fuego.”

“The dollar did it. Print more dollars to loan, at reduced rates of interest, to the failing speculator investment banks and what do you get?---------------------more rich people.

Had Bear Sterns been allowed to die peacefully in the forest, yes, the chit would've hit the fan, but the message sent would take speculation down to a healthy levels for years. But Oh no, uncle Sam would lose campaign money if we had done it Derby style.bangbang
last edited: 5/08/08 6:17:07 AM”

“Farms run on diesel fuel and the prices are hurting farmers and making prices for everything rise.
I was reading an article about hay farmers and they have to charge so much for bales of hay now that they are afraid people will just stop buying it because they won't be able to afford feeding their livestock. A horse eats 2 bales of hay per day and at $4 per bale, they might just get rid of the horse because they can't afford to keep it. They said they can only raise the price so much. The one farmer said his tractors can go thorough 100 gallons of diesel in one afternoon of cutting hay. He said if hay fields get taken out of production it takes at least two years to get one started again.”

“$3.92 here in NW Indiana”

“In los Angeles today, unlike 50 years ago, when I flew around in light planes with rich college kids, one needs only watch a car chase to see what is king in our cities. The view is King Cars and their slaves that feed and care for them, because cars have far more space that their human slaves.”

“Do parks out number parking lots?”

“"Bio fuels cut into the production of food simply because there is only a finite amount of crop land. Every acre planted to raised fuel means one less acre planted to raise food...."


Making corn into ethanol is not a good idea.

http://www.solixbiofuels.com/
This ain't crop land.

http://www.d1plc.com/
This ain't cuttin' into crop land and it's not edible.
Jatropha curcas, a robust, tropical oilseed bearing tree. Jatropha produces inedible oil feedstock for biodiesel and is able to make use of land not suitable for arable agriculture.


NonCon, take your head outta your bee-hind and decide for yourself.

Nimblefoot, that yellow stain ain't cake.”

“



”

“Great, now MarkO is cutting down the rainforest to plant more oilseed trees. I thought you wanted local growth for the bio-diesel.”

“Marko's a farmer? I can't picture MarkO as a hoe daddy. Doesn't he grow novels?”

“By 2050 the world population is expected to increase by 2.6 billion people. If all those people don't want to be vegetarians and can afford to own a car, you'll need three globes to grow enough food and fuel. In the next few decades the U.S. population is expected to reach 430 million increasing demands for food and fuel.”

“I think the operative phrase there is population crash.”