Hoosier Forests in Trouble!

“Well this probably fuego, but here goes:

Republican BS
This is how Bush and his Republican cronies propose to pay for their no child left behind program.

This is just one of many examples of how we're spending billions on war while being promised a balanced budget at home. Meanwhile its places like funding cuts and things like this that are taking the hit.

"The 24 parcels identified for sale are either isolated or located away from roads and often have no way for the public to gain access, he said."

Hmmm, isolated.....away from roads? Sounds like a place I'd like to visit. There are too few any more.


Forest sale may face opposition
Associated Press
February 20, 2006


BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Southern Indiana conservationists say they expect Indiana's environmental groups to band together to oppose a federal plan to sell off nearly 870 acres of the Hoosier National Forest.

The land sale is part of a national plan to sell about 200,000 acres of federal property to fund a rural schools program. Last year, that program funneled $380 million to rural schools around the nation, said Hoosier National Forest spokesman Franklin Lewis.

But Indiana forest advocate Andy Mahler calls the plan an "outrageous proposal." He said most of the money generated by the land sales would go to logging states, with more than half of it going to Oregon.

"The local schools here in rural Indiana will get virtually nothing out of these sales," he told The Herald-Times for a story published Saturday. "It will be the real estate brokers making the money."

Mahler, whose Orange County home is on property adjacent to the Hoosier National Forest, said he expects environmental groups to mount a strong protest to the proposed sale.

"I think you will see virtually every organization that works on forest protection issues doing what they can to raise awareness about this," he said.

Lewis said the U.S. Forest Service has historically paid counties a portion of the proceeds from timber sales generated from local land because the federal government does not pay property taxes on the land.

But Congress created the new program as timber cutting declined from about 12 billion board feet a year in the early 1990s to just 3 billion board feet last year.

Drew Laird, policy director of the Indiana Forest Alliance, said timber cutters should have been reimbursing counties all along.

"Timber companies should have been required to pay monies into a trust fund to fund schools after they cut and ran from rural communities," Laird said.

Lewis said the proposed sales, which still need congressional approval, account for just 0.004 percent of the Hoosier National Forest, which covers about 200,000 acres in segments stretching between Bloomington and the Ohio River.

The 24 parcels identified for sale are either isolated or located away from roads and often have no way for the public to gain access, he said.
Some of the land was willed to the federal government when the owners died. The largest tract, 80 acres in Brown County just north of Christiansburg, has no public access and is not contiguous to other land in the national forest, Lewis said.

The proposed land sale consists of parcels in seven Indiana counties. Those include: 80 acres in Brown County; 238 acres in Crawford County; 40 acres in Jackson County; 155 acres in Lawrence County; 152 acres in Martin County; 157 acres in Orange County and 46 acres in Perry County.”

“Away from roads, huh,

Why there will be people lined up offering top-dollar for that land they cant get to, yeh, right?

Pipe dream, bizarre joke?

And, Indiana John, I think this should be a matter of general chatter at TrailTalk, if its fuego, fewer will see it.
last edited: 2/21/06 3:32:19 PM”

“Yep, threats to backpacking areas have no place on a normal backpacking or places thread.”

“(sirens heard in the distance)

Indiana John, you've been busted by the Sarge of trolling. Take your hand off your mouse and put your hands in the air.”

“Sarge, shove it. This, unlike fuego, IS improtant. We are on the brink of loseing just about the only remaining wild land left in Indiana.”

“how dare you try to deceive people you don't even know and have not obligation to...you should be ashamed of yourself...this is the internet for god's sake, where's your morals :)”

“ROTFLMFAO

At least its getting read! Sucker

Sarge has anyone ever told you you're kinda like a hemoroid!”

“Hate to tell you folks this, but Sarge is correct on this one.
The thread started out from the gitgo as an attack on "Republican BS".
That makes it Fuego, cut and dried.”

“IJ, unfortunately Indiana isn't the only state this will take place”

“and not one of those mild ones that bearmagnet has either!!!

IJ, you must forgive him. Sarge is having a difficult time realizing that republicans are idiots :)”

“Oh come on! This was feugo from the first word.

“Well this probably fuego, but here goes:"

Gee, ya think?

Now, had you simply posted the link, maybe some of the artical, and left it at that I can see it. But NOOOOOOOOOO! LOL!

Who cares.”

“i wonder how long until this winds up on the "Hey Matt" thread...come on all you tattle tales, don't let us down”

““ROTFLMFAO

At least its getting read! Sucker"

I didn't read it.”

“LOL
I read as far as "Republican BS", tagged it as yet another Fuego not listed as Fuego and skipped the rest.”

“sarge, you really need to see a proctologist...your turds are football shaped LOL”

“I try to keep pics turned off at work.
SC is tring to get me fired with all that naughty stuff she posts.”

““bet you guys say Barbara Streisand though!

That pic is kinda hot!”

Actually I was getting ready to give you a 15 yard penalty for posting that Sarge. Unnecessary roughness ya know.”

“Indiana John, met Fuego.
Fuego, meet Indiana John. ;-)

Hey IJ! You gonna make the next Sipsey trip?”

“Western Public Lands:

http://www.westlx.org/html/privatization.html

From the link:

"Some of us remember the short reign in the early 1980s of Interior Secretary James Watt, who proposed that vast tracts of public land be sold to offset the country's deficit. His boss, Ronald Reagan, declared himself to be a "Sagebrush Rebel" in solidarity with the ranchers, miners, and developers who wanted to see

?!--all public lands in private hands.--!? (my emphasis but words are straight from link)



The American public scoffed, Watt resigned, and the idea of large-scale sell-offs went out of favor.



BLM lands are most vulnerable to the threat of privatization. Far from being protected, BLM lands are subject to many intensive uses, from mining to grazing to off-road-vehicle use.



Beginning in 2000 the Western Lands Project had to expand its mission beyond land exchanges to include scrutiny of other types of projects that seek to privatize federal lands.



Watt and his ilk don't often win with broad strokes, but the fervor to sell-off public land never really goes away -- it just gets quieter. Every year, scores of bills and projects that privatize federal land get through in a smaller-scale, more stealthy manner, tucked into huge appropriations bills or couched in cryptic language."
last edited: 2/18/06 2:31:49 PM”
last edited: 2/21/06 4:12:27 PM”

“Indiana John, meat Stove Stomper.”

“

What do you mean my pics are nuaghty?”

“Ha!
I have met Indiana John!
Awful nice guy!”

“nuaghty?

LOL”

“Nuaghty is when good leather goes bad.”

“Thanks for the post. Even as a Republican, I am not happy about this proposal. The article alone was sufficient however. The tag "Republican BS" made me not interested in reading the rest of the thread initially, but I did.

If someone else wants to turn this thread into fuego (and then whine that it wasn't initally categorized as fuego) rather than an intelligent discussion about what we as backpackers can do, that is their choice. My choice is to put that particular poster on ignore. Click!”

“Lewis said the proposed sales, which still need congressional approval, account for just 0.004 percent of the Hoosier National Forest, which covers about 200,000 acres in segments stretching between Bloomington and the Ohio River.

The 24 parcels identified for sale are either isolated or located away from roads and often have no way for the public to gain access, he said.
Some of the land was willed to the federal government when the owners died. The largest tract, 80 acres in Brown County just north of Christiansburg, has no public access and is not contiguous to other land in the national forest, Lewis said.

"The proposed land sale consists of parcels in seven Indiana counties. Those include: 80 acres in Brown County; 238 acres in Crawford County; 40 acres in Jackson County; 155 acres in Lawrence County; 152 acres in Martin County; 157 acres in Orange County and 46 acres in Perry County."


Before damning the entire proposal, I'd be interested in knowing more details like exactly where these isolated land tracts are. Do any trails run through them? How is the land being utilized currently? Where specifically will the money go? If it is beneficial to sell unused land, why not lobby to use the money to purchase more useable NF land?”

“You can click your way to rudeness all you want Ruby. It's disrespectful to others.”

“Great! Now Ruby has me on ignore! :(

And for the record I don't agree with it either but that doesn't mean I'm going to make all the world's problems the fualt of the republicans either.”

“Hi Nigal! I just flicked a booger on you. ;)”

“Well when ya break it down like that Ruby it doesn't seem so horrible. I would want to know how much the land was being sold per acre, if roads would then be built to get to the parcells, ect.”

“Mmmmmm! Ruby; it's what's for dinner!

”

“Beat me to it!”

“There are 2 ways to achieve a contigous pattern of public land.

1- Liguidate the isolated tracts

or

2- Acquire additional land connecting the isolated tracts to the larger holdings (The Land and water Conservation Fund is intended for this very purpose)

Method #2 at least for the national forests in the eastern United States has been the precedent since 1911. Reversing this precedent even if for what some consider a trivial amount of land is just that, a reversal of the precedent and so is a bigger threat to remaining public lands than it might appear.
last edited: 2/21/06 4:52:11 PM”

“I'm so confused.”

“Indiana John, please let the people who care about our National Parks know what we can do to prevent this. Petition? Is there a group collecting money?”

“At least there in Hoosier NF only 1/2 of 1% is slated for sale.

Uwharrie NF here is NC has 5% of our land targeted for sale and it is a NF sitting among rapid urbanization where every undeveloped acre is a treasure.
last edited: 2/22/06 6:35:21 AM”

“Well, it appears that Congress has yet to vote on it, call your congressman or woman and let them know how you feel.”

“The local Congressman here, Reub. Rep. Charles Taylor is very anti-environment, is on some public lands appropriation committee and has previously stated he is all for this and additional selloffs.

Both Senators are repubs. also, one is Elizabeth Dole who always rallies with the anti-environmentalists when she visits this end of the state, but all 3 will hear from me.
last edited: 2/22/06 7:18:56 AM”

“Buddah--I personally sent e-mails to all of my senators and representatives and the governor of Indiana. I posted the same information on my blog and lots of other people are sending letters too. If you google this on google news you will see that there is general outrage nationwide. Hopefully that will be enough?

Ruby, the way I understand it the money is supposed to go to rural school programs, the majority of which are out of state. Meanwhile, almost half the proposed land is in Indiana. At the same time our state is cutting funding for education ( a trickle down from federal funding the way I understand it) Here in Perry County our schools have taken a big hit cutting many extracurricular and after school programs and laying off teachers leading to larger class sizes.

I asked the Senators and Reps to clarify the issue for me and correct me if I'm wrong in any of my assumptions. i will pass on any response I receive.

Stovey--Can't make Sipsey this year. It falls on the same weekend as my adventure race.

Lonesurveyor--I don't see why all the land has to be connected? We have several small 100 acre or less tracts here in the county that are protected by the Conservation Society. Most of these have some plant species or geological feature but still I think the more we can protect the better.

I apologize for the way this was presented. i was just angry. But I did think it was important and I know some people that care might have fuego turned off.”

“At the same time our state is cutting funding for education

just an fyi, they're not cutting education funding, they're just keeping it the same (not raising it) for a year or two...they're also looking at putting the control of the budgets in the hands of the actual schools so that the money can be used more efficiently...not trying to argue wit cha, just my $0.02 ;)”

“oops, double post
last edited: 2/22/06 9:54:53 AM”

“I see nothing wrong with just letting isolated tracts remain as they are either.

For some reason, the benevolent planners seem to feel isolated tracts are a problem.”

“i'd be interested in diving into this a little more...Hoosier, like most national forests, has on going land acquisitions...they budget money every year to buy more land...are they doing away with this also?...if not, i'd see it as more of a land swap than getting rid of land”

““I see nothing wrong with just letting isolated tracts remain as they are either.

For some reason, the benevolent planners seem to feel isolated tracts are a problem.”
lonesurveyor
11:28:51 AM
2/22/06
ignore this user

Maybe more thought needs to be put into what the forest will be, where it will be, and how it will be used in 10 years, 50 years, and 100 years. Protecting a small isolated piece of forest might be beneficial to the extended plan, on the other had giving up that piece to obtain another might benefit the forest even more. It’s a decision that a lot of thought should be put into because the consequences might not be seen for a few years or decades.”