canoe? Kayak? anyone else confused?

“Which do you prefer?

I've been a die hard canoe/kayak tripper for decades. I build my own kayaks and would like to build a few cedar srtip canoes as well.
I've been kayaking over 20 years now, long before the rage. I've taught kayaking for the past 4 years as well.

Why do I find myself gravitating back to the canoe?
I think a lot of it has to do with the gear. With kayaking, you need special booties, dry tops, skirts, bilge pumps, lines, paddle floats....the list goes on and on.
Witht the canoe, you simply hop out in the gear you camp in and set up to watch a sunset.
I also believe a lot of it has to do with the appeal of the days of the vouagers and now living in the "lake country".
The portages are easier with the canoe, you need(once again) accessories like portage yolks that clamp on to the kayak.

I love them both, but I'm in the market for another craft (not enough room to build another one right now)
Anyone else wondering what's best?”

“I loved canoeing until I got stuck 3 different times on the St.Croix River with a strong south wind that kept me in one place as I tried to paddle downstream (south). Then I got sick, lost a lot of muscle and decided a kayak would be the answer..it is but I do miss the simplicity and portability of my canoe...by the way, I have an Old Towne Osprey which Bill says I should sell but I can't bear to part with it...”

“always been a canoe man but there are places I want to go that I need a kayak for, I am just waiting for you to give Me one”

“what size I may buy it”

“I much prefer the Kayak :)”

“I do like the speed an efficiency of a kayak. I also relize that I'm not in such a hurry anymore either. In wind, the kayak has it all over the canoe. But there's also the fact that most people don't realize how to paddle a canoe correctly either, utilizing c and j strokes or paddling "Algonqion Style" which keeps your profile and center of gravity lower.

As far as draft, With a long kayak or a shorter solo canoe, I figured, from what I paddled last year in low conditions everywhere I went, that a solo canoe would go anywhere my kayaks would go. Longer and skinnier, or shorter with a wider beam, it made no difference. I drafted about the same. I do favor streams, smaller rivers and protected waters. My Penobscot 16 with just me in it can easily go in 4 inches of water.”

“I prefer paddling a kayak but then I've only done one overnight and was able to shuttle the gear to within a few hundred yards of our campsite. I haven't had to portage or float gear.”

“I do like the speed an efficiency of a kayak. I also relize that I'm not in such a hurry anymore either. In wind, the kayak has it all over the canoe. But there's also the fact that most people don't realize how to paddle a canoe correctly either, utilizing c and j strokes or paddling "Algonqion Style" which keeps your profile and center of gravity lower.

As far as draft, With a long kayak or a shorter solo canoe, I figured, from what I paddled last year in low conditions everywhere I went, that a solo canoe would go anywhere my kayaks would go. Longer and skinnier, or shorter with a wider beam, it made no difference. I drafted about the same. I do favor streams, smaller rivers and protected waters. My Penobscot 16 with just me in it can easily go in 4 inches of water.”

“I do like the speed an efficiency of a kayak. I also relize that I'm not in such a hurry anymore either. In wind, the kayak has it all over the canoe. But there's also the fact that most people don't realize how to paddle a canoe correctly either, utilizing c and j strokes or paddling "Algonqion Style" which keeps your profile and center of gravity lower.

As far as draft, With a long kayak or a shorter solo canoe, I figured, from what I paddled last year in low conditions everywhere I went, that a solo canoe would go anywhere my kayaks would go. Longer and skinnier, or shorter with a wider beam, it made no difference. I drafted about the same. I do favor streams, smaller rivers and protected waters. My Penobscot 16 with just me in it can easily go in 4 inches of water.”

“Yikes! think there were problems with the site today?”

“I think one (or more) of each is the best choice.”

“I thought I wanted a kayak, but the more I look at it I think my next boat purchase will be a solo canoe. My main purpose when I go paddling is to fish and the canoe (at least my canoe) is more stable when you aren’t moving, which are important when you get a lunker on your line. The other reason is a lot of the good trout ponds in my area can require up to a 6 to 7 mile portage; the solo canoe I’m looking at weighs in at less than 12lbs. The closest I can find in weight for a kayak is 23lbs and it costs $800 more. The yak is also 5’ longer which makes it more difficult to carry on a narrow and twisty trail.”

“i think it's the same debate with larger boats; speed boat or pontoon...with the speed boat you get a fast maneuverable boat but with the pontoon you can take the wife and kids, the bar-b-q, the dog, your camping gear etc.

i don't do much of either but when i do, i think i prefer the canoe”

“...But it's easier for me because I backpacked for many years before I got into Kayaking, and I'm used to carrying just the gear I'd backpack with....

I tend to kayak large rivers and lakes, crossing a large lake in a canoe with the wind and waves up would be really uncomfortable, and I've found that I can get back into the Kayak should I roll, and the gear stays in the boat instead of sinking to the bottom......

Anyone know how you get back into a canoe in deep water? Shallow streams are less problematic, but water over your head would be trouble I think...”

“I love kayaking trips! I did a week in the BWCA and just put my stuff in three day packs; two in back and one up front. Worked great. I’d put on day pack on my back and one on my front and portage` the loose stuff in my hands and then come back for the boat. I went without nothing and even snuck in two 4 packs of Boddingtons Ale and a box of hand rolled Honduran cigars.

My only complaint was it was a bit tougher fishing from a kayak and I didn’t have a convenient place to have the rods handy.”

“For 35 years, I have loved canoes. Much nicer for those hot summer days. Distances traveled & gear load can be increased quite a bit. I've fiddled with (mostly fiberglas)kayaks, but always came back to canoes. I started on an aluminum canoe in New Hampshire/Maine summers. Gravitated to power boats during my teenage/younger years. Tried a small gas motor for long canoe trips but didn't like the noise & vibration. Also needed registration crossing some of the more populated lakes. Might try an electric trolling motor one day. My 1st full day of paddling is/was always the hardest, but settled into an enjoyable rhythm during the rest of the trips. I've used many canoes and traded for a 15' (plastic)royalux. I've always been partial to a wide bodied, 17' aluminum canoe of my brother-in-law's for trips. (portaging & lakes) The 15' royalux is better for rough rocks(dragging on dry stream beds etc)back country treatment but limited on gear size & weight. Over all in 35+ years in canoes, I like a 17' aluminum canoe. I like the basics in most things camping & hiking. I like a canoe (& gear)that isn't SO expensive, I'm afraid to leave it in the woods & go off for a long hike. I like hiking solo, but always have a partner for long back country canoe trips.”

“Anyone know how you get back into a canoe in deep water? Shallow streams are less problematic, but water over your head would be trouble I think...”
SuperTroll
8:41:00 AM
2/27/06
ignore this user

I've done it when paddling tandem. One person stabilizes the canoe while the other gets in, although I've never rolled a canoe, unless I did it on purpose. Then again I don’t paddle on large bodies of water.”

“Both. =)

I love my kayak because I can go out anytime the ice is broken up. I can hit the great lakes and huge rivers like the detroit. I'd be really hesitant to take my canoe out there (although some people do), because I couldn't get back in if I dumped and would have difficulties keeping water out (although you can buy deck covers for canoes, they're harder to come by and more pricey than a dry skirt for a a kayak).

I do love working with my canoe partner to make the boat go where we want it. I love the feel of the sun on my legs too.”

“Sass informed me of another benefit of canoes she saw a guy and girl enjoying on a trip once. LOL!”

“If anyone really cares...note my new trail name... XL400 is the make of my Yak. I started trying th Yak stuff 3 or so years ago...I am hooked. I still do canoe stuff but my Yak is so much easier to run.

I my yak is a touring yak, I have been in seas where waves were breaking over my deck. If anyone is thinking of either, hey drop me a line, I have 5 at the lake, we can take you out for a run and you can try a bunch (friends have another 3 or so).”

“I'm interested in kayaks but I'm just fine with a canoe.

Anyone know how you get back into a canoe in deep water?
Yes, but it's easier for me to show how to do it than tell how to do it. You pretty much have to reach across the canoe to the opposite gunwale and crawl in. You will ship some water guaranteed.”

“note my new trail name... XL400 is the make of my Yak

so what's the 236?”

“When the finance gods once again smile on me, my next boat will be a solo/tandem canoe. Probably a Hornbeck. Easier to portage a 20lb boat than it is my current 86lb boat.

Canoe camping is all about luxury. Bringing everything including too much food, beer, and the kitchen sink. Hard to pile all that in, or rather, ON a 'yak. So far, I've yet to even come close to overloading my 17' Old Town, and that's packing for a family of 4.


Ordin”

““When the finance gods once again smile on me, my next boat will be a solo/tandem canoe. Probably a Hornbeck. Easier to portage a 20lb boat than it is my current 86lb boat.
Ordin Aryguy
10:38:35 AM
2/27/06
ignore this user

That's my plan. I've been drooling over one of Peter Hornbeck's "The Black Jack" boats for some time. I wish I could aford the $1495 price tag.”

“236....badge number, My yak can carry TWO peoples gear. Due to its design I try to carry a minimum of 15 lbs of ballast. But I have gotten 3 persons gear in the two compartments. Works great, but makes it heavy to haul.”

“.....I have been in seas where waves were breaking over my deck. .....
XL400236
8:15:55 AM
2/27/06

Ha Ha! You should have been with SmokyGirl, arclite, and I on our last trip to Cumberland Island!”

“i really need to start praying to the finance gods”

“Why not invite the guy along in May, or are ya just rying to keep the group small?....”

“The only time I have ever dumped in a canoe is when I ran it down a class 5 gorge in march (expected to dump) & lucky I wasn't killed. The 30 foot waterfall (my brother-in-law didn't mention)was kinda neat & found out the foam flotation was waterlogged. I'm usually very careful but occasionally get stupid.......Thinking back, I had a great ride.

THe aluminum canoe was great for ice as it has an ice-skate-like-runner on the bottom. I wanted to turn back but my brother in law wanted to "line-it" from shore. WE eventually got very good at paddling up onto the ice & gliding back into the water. No dumps. My brother-in-law did drop through the ice when he walked too close to shore. Making him hold a 100' rope tied to the canoe probably saved his life. He 'still' wants to see the pics.”

“There are a few ways to get back in a canoe, I believe the best was listed here (From the side and sliding across the gunwall while reaching across. I practice this, but have never needed to do it. The same with kayaking. The only time I roll is for some playful "rotational cooling" in the summer on a hot day.

I'm looking for a solo canoe, I think. It's been a hard decision, because one style boat does not do it all. I've spent a lot of time on the water in both crafts, over 20 yrs. in kayaks and even more in canoes. I fish out of both (the canoe is of course easier) and it just appeals to me to jump out of a canoe and run a portage or just set up camp.

If you ever corner me around a campfire, I have a great story about running a steep creek in flood conditions with the 17 alum. canoe I used to have, hitting a tree and getting ejected, going back and finding the canoe like a big silver fortune cookie wrapped around the tree. Patrick McManus has nuthin' on my childhood!
last edited: 2/27/06 6:52:25 PM”

“Dr. Atomic almost sent me facing backwards over a waterfall, that was fun”

“I would have gone backwards over my waterfall, but I was kneeling in the center of the canoe and just turned around.

I have seen a LOT of mangled & twisted canoes but the most I've done is a few dents. I used to go to the gorges just to collect errant paddles.
last edited: 2/28/06 6:48:44 AM”

“How to get back in a canoe?

I usually go to the stern or bow and try to keep equal weight on both gunwales as you lift youself with mostly your arms and slide your body down the center line of the canoe and then straddle the canoe with your legs until you can get balanced enough to shift your legs into the canoe. I can't imagine trying to come in from the side; and I have a 17'2" Old Town Tripper (read: barge)”

“canoe! nuff said”

“Hey SuperTroll
Check your email!
last edited: 2/28/06 10:08:07 PM”